One Trick Phoney

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
Ted M
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Ted M » May 8th, 2015, 1:17 pm

Is your concern for your own purity to not be complicit in honoring Geller, or for the public good being harmed by Geller's impact on psychic believers?

Geller appearing at a magic convention would seem to undermine his position as a real psychic.

If anything, being loudly cheered by dove-pulling magicians at his Genii and FISM appearances provides greater cause for unsure believers to doubt him. That seems to aid the public good.

But maybe your own simple sense of personal purity is more important to you than the larger public good.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 8th, 2015, 1:49 pm

P.T.Widdle wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:You're beating a dead horse.


I thought I was providing a fresh perspective (and a fun game!)...


gotta draw a line somewhere - recall Don Novello's Father Guido Sarducci character and the mouse ears.

At what point does shilling the rubes become transgression?
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 8th, 2015, 2:01 pm

Nice twist there.

No, Gellar's appearances at these conventions are no more altruistic on his behalf (or the magic convention organizers), than you would imagine them to be. If he was coming out as a reformed psychic, then yes, these appearances would help to validate that effort. But, alas, Gellar continues to insist to the public that he has supernatural powers and to profit from that claim. A simple public statement declaring once and finally, "I do not have supernatural powers," and an apology to boot, would do more than all the TV and magic convention appearances.

It's like a card gambler appearing at magic conventions while still continuing to cheat people out of their money at card games.

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 8th, 2015, 3:04 pm

Well, PT, you weren't. You just keep coming up with different ways of saying the same thing.

I no longer care. And here is something I know you will enjoy (as I did):

http://www.cracked.com/article_18553_5- ... ychic.html

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 8th, 2015, 3:53 pm

It's funny how people (mainly magicians), tend to romanticize gamblers and psychics, while showing impatience or even distain for their victims. Caveat emptor seems to be the default response to their being "duped."

To the families of the victims of the missing Mayasian plane who may have held out hope for a 'remote viewing' contact, I say, "THERE ARE NO RULES!"

Thanks for the article, Dustin.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 8th, 2015, 4:48 pm

isn't the "fresh" perspective a magician who strives to make their work more than just tricks?

( I see a few on that list who would qualify. They each take different paths to that same end. So, he seems right in place to me.)

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 8th, 2015, 5:17 pm

uri did nothing more than any other 'expert' pundit who was called in to speculate on the Malaysian plane incident.

parse his words. He said nothing.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Gordon Meyer » May 8th, 2015, 5:51 pm

I'm reminded of the sex workers in San Francisco who were demanding fair treatment -- their org was called COYOTE which stood for "Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics." As others have pointed out, not everyone agrees that what Uri has don't is somehow "wrong."

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby I.M. Magician » May 8th, 2015, 5:52 pm

Let's remember what happened when Uri appeared on the Tonight Show. Carson, who loved magic, felt the need to put Uri on the spot in from of the entire viewing audience. Why? Because he didn't like how Uri went too far in his claims.

The reason why Uri ticks off so many is because he can't stop at calling himself an entertainer but insists that people believe that he really has some special powers. And that will always spell trouble.

If you actually believe that people with psychic powers do exist, then my argument is not for you.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 8th, 2015, 6:03 pm

Thanks for playing the game, Brad!

I will not quote the tweets, nor post a link to the radio interview he did a week later, as that has already been covered in previous threads.

Why on earth would Gellar even give a radio interview (or any media appearance) talking about his involvement in the tragedy. It was a d*ck move.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 8th, 2015, 7:25 pm

can't we say the same about any of the pilots and pundits whose words were no more accurate than Geller's?

or cnn's exploitation of the missing plane for weeks on end in an attempt to get rating and pad tbeir own bottom line?

they called it news

it wasn't.

same difference?

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 8th, 2015, 10:10 pm

Brad, all your examples are indeed correct in that they represent some level of ethical breech in using the media to promote something other than the best interests of the victims.

There can be more than one jerk at a party.

I'm picking on this particular jerk because this is a magic forum, and he is currently being embraced by magicians on an unprecedented level. I think this is news in the magic world worth discussing and debating.

And at that, I would encourage anyone still following this thread to check out the new article I just posted, Diss-Illusoned, appearing in Popmatters. As happy as I am to see this article on a pop culture website, I also sort of wish Genii had written it.

http://www.popmatters.com/column/192374 ... ernatural/
Last edited by P.T.Widdle on May 9th, 2015, 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Bill Mullins » May 9th, 2015, 12:18 am

Houdini did a spiritualism act early in his career. I still admire what he did later.

Howard Thurston spent time in jail for bribing a witness to stay out of a con man's trial in 1897. He still put on a good show.

Steranko boosted cars when he was a teenager. It doesn't change the fact that he is a great artist.

Johnny Carson ran around on his wives. I still think he hosted a talk show as well as it could be done.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Richard Hatch » May 9th, 2015, 1:04 am

Not directly relevant to the discussion, but interesting historically if you haven't seen it, is this old video clip of a very young (not yet famous!) David Copperfield on a Chicago talk show with Uri Geller and Omar Shariff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whfXsR1YDbk

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Tim Ellis
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Tim Ellis » May 9th, 2015, 4:44 am

Just saw this thread.

I applaud Tom Moore for being a stickler for accuracy, however he loses credibility saying about Geller "his own (weirdly successful) TV format that has gotten more out and out magicians on prime-time network TV than Masters of Illusion, WGM, Fool us & Wizard Wars combined." Obviously a massive exaggeration in an attempt to portray Geller as a generous benefactor to magicians.


History is clear. Geller has (and still does) claimed to have supernatural powers. He has affected an entire generation (maybe two generations)and given us cause to believe that we have the potential within our own minds to locate missing objects by thought alone, and to bend cutlery, move compasses, fix broken watches etc simply by thinking.

But the basis of these claims was false.

He could not an cannot do any of these things but, unlike a magician, he did not say it was a "show" or use a conceit to let us know it was all an act. He outright claimed his powers were real and challenged people to test him.

He accepted huge sums of money to find minerals (I was involved in the Zanex thing first hand) and sold things like "powered" orange dots which were supposed to help increase peoples pyschic powers. He KNEW he could not do any of these things for real yet accepted payment and solicited for more work. That, in anyone's language, is fraud. How is that any different from the $5 a minute psychic hotlines that advertise on TV? Well, to give the "psychics" credit, a lot of them truly believe they have genuine powers...

In the early 1970s, when governments around the world started looking at "psychic powers" for military and domestic purposes, he convinced the SRI (who were working for the US Government's military Stargate project) that what he was doing was real. They spent over $20 million on that project alone partially based on the "proof" he provided. An absolute waste of the public purse, money that was sorely needed elsewhere.

He interjected himself into almost every major world tragedy in order to keep his brand in the media, regardless of ethics. He even claimed to stop the Olympic flame at the Sydney Olympics. http://www.uri-geller.com/articles/Olympic.htm

His website has pages of articles implying that Geller's powers have been "healing" people for years and continue to do so http://www.uri-geller.com/healing.htm

His most recent claims are that he was a "psychic spy" for the CIA and Mossad. He actually claims that he used mind tricks on the Russians to stop a nuclear war. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/uri-geller-psychic-spy-used-2063744 and claims he was "reactivated" as a spy after 9/11. His book about his "spying" was made into a "documentary" you can watch here http://site.uri-geller.com/watch_the_secret_life_of_uri_gellr




In a recent interview, Uri says: “I don’t take myself seriously. I’m a showman, don’t you get that? Today I describe myself as a mystifier.

"I thrive on controversy, the sceptics boosted my career unintentionally. I am a master publicist.

"I have never used PR people. I have never used an agent or manager and I am still around after 42 years because I knew how to mould, shape and twist the controversy around me.”


Even then, Uri can't stop lying. His manager was Shipi Shtrang. Uri married his sister Hannah.




My question is this - what are magicians "honoring" Uri for?

He has received three awards for the "promotion of magic" in the last few years even though, on the FISM website it says clearly "Although he is not a Magician..." and even goes as far as to say "The world's most prestigious scientific magazine, Nature, published a paper on Uri's work at the Stanford Research Institute in the U.S.A - a unique endorsement, and an irrefutable proof that his skills are genuine."

Imagine just how much more famous Derren Brown would be if he claimed his mental effects "were genuine". It's a quick path to fame (just ask John Edwards) and a line that the majority of magic performers choose not to cross.


It appears to me that Uri Geller has taken money from (perhaps gullible) people who believed his claims and not given them anything in return. When Hank Lee did that, he was sent to prison, not invited to headline FISM.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby AJM » May 9th, 2015, 8:28 am

+1

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Tom Moore » May 9th, 2015, 8:45 am

I applaud Tom Moore for being a stickler for accuracy, however he loses credibility saying about Geller "his own (weirdly successful) TV format that has gotten more out and out magicians on prime-time network TV than Masters of Illusion, WGM, Fool us & Wizard Wars combined." Obviously a massive exaggeration in an attempt to portray Geller as a generous benefactor to magicians.


Not quite sure why my name has been dragged in to this and accusing me of exaggerating something that's very easily verifiable. His tv format "The successor" - aka Phenominon, aka "the new uri gellar" is essentially a magic show with a focus on mentalism (i'm aware the US version was played differently to all other remakes of the show & isn't representative of the format) but which also used quite a lot of out-and-out magic, presented by people who in their respective countries are known magicians and mentalists. The format (basically American Idol for mental magic) has been made/remade in 9 countries (as well as being syndicated outside those territories) some countries having multiple seasons and each season using at least 10 performers in the live rounds and 100+ featured in the elimination rounds (the Dutch version ran 3 seasons and had 20 participants in the live rounds for example) with ratings for some versions of the show topping the chart in their respective territories and beating Idol / x-factor / Big-Brother.

Uri has some other TV formats and specials which haven't been as widely broadcast and although using magicians and mentalists did lump them in to the more generic "paranormal" framework so to keep things simple I'm not even going to attempt to quantify that data.

Coming back to my original claim - "successor" has had well over 100 unique episodes (well over 200 broadcast hours) and has actively employed and profiled 150 magicians and mentalists. There can be no doubt whatsoever that that is indeed more hours and more unique magicians than WGM, Fool us, Wizard Wars & Masters of Illusion combined.

Again I really don't want to get involved in the other debates here but please don't make out that I'm lying or exaggerating (I've told the president a million times I never ever exaggerate!) when it's clearly and absolutely not the case.
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby JHostler » May 9th, 2015, 9:01 am

Tim Ellis wrote:Imagine just how much more famous Derren Brown would be if he claimed his mental effects "were genuine". It's a quick path to fame (just ask John Edwards) and a line that the majority of magic performers choose not to cross.


Tim -

I'm not going to comment on or dispute anything else in your post... but this quote just doesn't make sense unless Derren Brown (and entertainers like him) openly characterize their effects and "powers" as simulated. Most don't - it would taint the audience's experience. (How can disbelief be suspended after a performer breaks the fourth wall and explicitly notes he's a fraud?)
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Tom Pilling » May 9th, 2015, 10:07 am

Derren Brown is very explicit that what he does is not 'real'. Of course, he's also the master of pseudo-explanations, but even these he admits to on stage before offering up another pseudo-explanation. Layers upon layers, and all that.

Tim Ellis has nailed it, but there isn't really any point in arguing about it on here; the cognitive dissonance makes me feel sea-sick.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 9th, 2015, 11:53 am

there are many lay people and magicians who believed that Derren was doing his demonstrations with 'real nlp'. Magicians online believed the false methods. I know many lay people who believe Derren has aupwrnatural (or at least non scientifically based) powers.

he "allowed" them to leave with a false impression. He has a disclaimer but never says 'it's all tricks."

should we condemn him?

at what point does the audience become responsible for their choices?

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Richard Stokes » May 9th, 2015, 12:58 pm

“I don’t take myself seriously. I’m a showman, don’t you get that?"

If I were to recall TV events in the 20th Century that had the greatest emotional impact on me, I'd choose:

1/ July 1966 England beating Germany in the World Cup Final.

2/ November 1973 Uri Geller appearing live on the David Dimbleby show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTtnQW8f-O0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0Gh6f6tTCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjmnJOsiKLg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX4DjtuRjNA

Watching Uri's 'performance' more than 40 years later, I was still impressed. The original show had a huge impact on millions of people. We were watching miracles, not magic tricks, or so we thought

David Dimbleby is alive and well and hosted the BBC Election broadcast a few days ago.
The other guests have sadly departed this physical world.
Professor John Taylor was certainly fooled by Uri. Taylor then went on to damage his own reputation by writing Superminds (1975). If he had been less gullible, he might have carved a respectable niche as the in-house science expert (like Brian Cox does now).
The other armchair enthusiast was Lyall Watson, author of Supernature, who coined the term 100th Monkey - which later came to the attention of mentalist Chris Philpott.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Tim Ellis » May 11th, 2015, 7:35 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:there are many lay people and magicians who believed that Derren was doing his demonstrations with 'real nlp'. Magicians online believed the false methods. I know many lay people who believe Derren has aupwrnatural (or at least non scientifically based) powers.

he "allowed" them to leave with a false impression. He has a disclaimer but never says 'it's all tricks."

should we condemn him?

at what point does the audience become responsible for their choices?


"Though Brown's performances of mind-reading and other feats of mentalism may appear to be the result of psychic or paranormal practices, he claims no such abilities and frequently denounces those who do. He states at the beginning of his Trick of the Mind programmes that he achieves his results using a combination of "magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection, and showmanship"."

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 11th, 2015, 7:40 pm

and yet many lay people chose to believe he is psychic and many magicians thought he was doing 'real nlp' - whatever that may be.

Did Barnum disclaim the figi mermaid?

The Minnesota Iceman is drawing crowds even today.

Where is this 'rule' you speak of?

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Tim Ellis » May 12th, 2015, 1:07 am

Brad,

.... seriously

People believe Copperfield flies for real and Dynamo is a demon... BUT Copperfield DOES NOT claim he can really fly (and sell things to the public to help them harness their supernatural flight powers).

Derren does NOT "allow" people to think his powers are real, in fact he speaks out AGAINST people like Geller who do.

You ask where is the "rule"?

It's actually a LAW and it's called FRAUD. A law that has been applied successfully against Geller on at least one occasion I know of where an audience member took him to court over the fact he came to see Geller demonstrate psychic powers (as Geller advertised) and was presented with nothing more than magic tricks. (1971, Beersheba)

Geller is undoubtedly a charming man, a brilliant public speaker and showman, but he is also profiting from claims he is making that he knows are untrue.

Certainly, you can level the same criticisms against Houdini for embellishing his legacy by circulating fictional versions of his adventures (as Geller does when he claims aliens visited him and gave him his supernatural powers) but as much as Houdini WANTED to believe in the supernatural he was repulsed by those who (deluded or intentionally) took advantage of an easily misled public.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 12th, 2015, 1:29 am

I know magicians who claim they are sleight of hand masters and present self working tricks as proof.

I would bet that the people calling foul the loudest are those who would say a paychic is a fraud, someone who uses tricks.

Isn't that exactly what Uri is doing?

uri is as real of a psychic as one is likely to meet, don't you think?

are people going to sue the kardashian's and real house wives when they figure out the 'reality' they've been sold isn't real?

here's my question, did the mining company sue him? or were they happy with his services? I've always wondered that.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Tim Ellis » May 12th, 2015, 2:13 am

I will answer your last question Brad because the other statements are just nonsensical (you're arguing that psychics are frauds and "Isn't that exactly what Uri is doing?" Yes. It is. He is afraud. Well spotted).

So, the situation with Zanex is worthy of the plot of an Oceans 11 movie.

Zanex is a public company with shareholders. One of their directors (Peter Sterling) BELIEVED what Uri was telling him, that he could truly find gold using psychic powers (just as some police offers BELIEVE the claims of psychics who say they can find missing persons).

This belief was based on published reports that Rio Tinto Zinc had hired Geller previously and he has located minerals for them (these press reports were later denounced by RTZ as totally fabricated. Geller never worked for them) and media stories (based on claims from Geller's website) like "What, you ask very reasonably, does Geller know about prospecting? The answer is, reportedly: enough to earn £Stg 50m in the last 5 years from royalties. He looks at maps and areas and advises companies where to drill, charging a royalty on resultant finds. No great detail is available, but he is said to have pointed the way to both oil and mineral discoveries."

However, Geller bent some spoons for Peter Sterling and convinced him that, for $US250,000, Geller would tell them were to dig on the Solomon Islands to find gold and diamonds.

Geller flew over the islands with a pendulum and a map and "divined" where they should dig.

The results? No gold or diamonds.

However, this is a publicly traded company with shareholders who want to see it behave responsibly. If they admit the blew a quarter of a million dollars on a "self proclaimed psychic" with no results, their share price drops and they risk losing millions.

So, they announced that despite not finding gold they HAD found lots of other precious minerals... which you will find if you dig pretty much anywhere on the Solomon Islands.

The statement given to Geller by Sterling a few days after the flight, which is published in the book 'Grow Rich with Peace of Mind' says "I confirm that Zanex is about to commence exploration in areas identified by you in Solomon Islands. The most interesting area identified to date is on Malaita Island where upon your instructions we are about to commence a search for gold and diamonds. We have already confirmed the presence of Kimberlite which could be diamondiferous in this area. Other areas will be investigated in due course."

Geller got his fee and Zanex pretended to be delighted. Shortly after, Peter Sterling was removed from his position as CEO of Zanex and left the company in 1988. Zanex, meanwhile, terminated its loss-making operations in the Solomons, citing poor management.

Articles here http://www.zem.demon.co.uk/zanex.htm and here http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/08/25/2992937.htm?site=12science&

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 12th, 2015, 8:51 am

Tim, Brad - maybe folks could ask him how he processes his audiences responses to refine his show.
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 12th, 2015, 9:00 am

Jonathan Townsend wrote:Tim, Brad - maybe folks could ask him how he processes his audiences responses to refine his show.


To what end?

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 12th, 2015, 9:27 am

P.T.Widdle wrote:
Jonathan Townsend wrote:Tim, Brad - maybe folks could ask him how he processes his audiences responses to refine his show.


To what end?


learning audience rapport skills can help in the performing arts

just saying,

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 12th, 2015, 9:29 am

Don't understand the relevance to this discussion.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 12th, 2015, 10:37 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:Come to FISM and you'll meet Uri. He loves to sit and talk with people.


What would be generally useful that does not get into the mire of "your tricks offend my essential vanity" discussions? - What would I want to learn from him?
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 12th, 2015, 11:13 am

Tim, thanks for the background on the mineral company.

to the other issues - on stage anything goes. Anything. The performer has no responsibility beyond conveying a feelingful response to his or her audiende. To disclaim, in the case of uri, is to change the nature of that response. As an artist, as a human, he has the right to create whatever art-experience he likes.

Now, the line seems to be the geography of the proscenium. One could make a case that once off stage there is a responsibility to be 'honest' and cop to the 'truth' I would contend that is reasonable unless one feels that behavior would alter the artists intended feelingful conception. Dali didn't have to dress outrageously for his art to stand on its own, but that's not for us to decide, is it? Today most all celebrities are living lies (if we believe their pr) We have no problem with this. So from the intellectual honesty issue I can't say that anyone has any grounds to demand Geller present his art in any way other than he wishes.

Now, I agree that one might draw a line at fraud should someone sell a service (non artistic) based on false premises.

But isn't that for the courts to decide?

and what a hard decision. How much do we get from tne authors of The Secret? Could we make a case against Joel Osteen? And what about Barnum? we as magicians seem to have no problem with What he did.

The line, objectively, doesn't seem to be the artistic lie nor even the selling of fictive services. It comes down, it seems, to taste. (I am reminded of Lawrence v Texas)
It's the psychic element that offends us, not lying per Se.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 12th, 2015, 12:09 pm

Jonathan, Geller's "tricks" don't offend my vanity, they offend my morals and ethics.

You want me to sit down with the gambler to learn what's "useful." As long as he is still gambling, I don't feel comfortable gleaning that information.

----------

Brad, this is not about taste. Not liking Penn and Teller's Bullet Catch is a matter of taste. This is about ethics.
Some believe the Malaysian plane "trick" was unethical. Others believe it was merely distasteful.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 12th, 2015, 12:21 pm

P.T.Widdle wrote:Jonathan, Geller's "tricks" don't offend my vanity, they offend my morals and ethics.

You want me to sit down with the gambler to learn what's "useful." As long as he is still gambling, I don't feel comfortable gleaning that information.


Mystery/Faith/Magic/Supernatural/Paranormal/Lucky ... make a graph of those as you like (we accept them as valid for others vs we believe in those ourselves) - it's still off the table for discussion here unless Richard decides to open that up.

I respect your position about learning card cheating from a working cheat. I take the tack of "how would you know if it did not work" as critical test for claims about useful methods. How portable, reliable, robust, repeatable are the methods? For card sleights ... the card cheat would be a darn good source IMHO even if I personally choose not to adopt his "why".

Okay back to Uri who encourages magical thinking ... how well - how reliably and how does he work at audience rapport. Seems sensible to me. Learn what folks are good at without getting stuck on how they use it or why they use it.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

P.T.Widdle
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby P.T.Widdle » May 12th, 2015, 12:45 pm

Jonathan Townsend wrote: Learn what folks are good at without getting stuck on how they use it or why they use it.


I'm happy for you that your conscience is clear in regards to that. If you ever have a sit-down with Uri, in addition to learning about what he's good at during his stage performances, maybe you could also inquire about his methods and techniques into "fooling" people whose loved ones are missing.

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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 12th, 2015, 1:29 pm

P.T.Widdle wrote:
Jonathan Townsend wrote: Learn what folks are good at without getting stuck on how they use it or why they use it.


I'm happy for you that your conscience is clear in regards to that. If you ever have a sit-down with Uri, in addition to learning about what he's good at during his stage performances, maybe you could also inquire about his methods and techniques into "fooling" people whose loved ones are missing.


... selling to the desperate... one might want to talk with someone in the funeral business about something close to that in terms of feelings/money/activity. Not going after the emotional components here in this discussion as that's again hooked into beliefs.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Brad Henderson
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 12th, 2015, 3:08 pm

PT

I appreciate your consistency re gamblers. I know many who codemn Geller in one breath would spend their last running down a card cheat to idolize.

having said that, our collective worship of the non psychic con man undermines the moral argument against Geller.

it is hard to condemn frauds when our leading lights have put so many of them on such high pedestals.

mrnikko
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby mrnikko » May 12th, 2015, 7:48 pm

Its not at all hard to condemn frauds.

Brad Henderson
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Brad Henderson » May 12th, 2015, 10:38 pm

read a magician's magazine cover story. check out a magician's promo material.

we are all frauds.

it's a matter of degree.

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Tim Ellis
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Re: One Trick Phoney

Postby Tim Ellis » May 13th, 2015, 1:18 am

Brad Henderson wrote:read a magician's magazine cover story. check out a magician's promo material.

we are all frauds.

it's a matter of degree.


Yes - and the degree is what we are discussing here.


People speak about the value in learning from Geller... that's not even an issue as far as I am concerned.My issue is magicians HONORING him. Giving him awards for his "service to magic" then lauding him as an honoured guest at a magic convention.

People keep bringing up all sorts of other subjects (card cheats, Barnum, Funeral directors [?!]) but the topic of discussion is Uri Geller.

He is a shameless publicity whore who will do ANYTHING to get his name in the media. (And he does it exceptionally well... but that doesn't make him a magician).

Can we learn how to be more effective magicians from him? If he has anything more to offer than "pretend what you do is real both on AND off stage" I would be very surprised.

He knows how (after years of getting it wrong initially) to word a disclaimer so that he no longer actually claims anything that he could be sued over. Even the title of his recent documentary was punctuated with a question mark - "The Secret Life of Uri Geller - Psychic Spy?"

Geller says "Even though I swear I worked for the CIA during the cold war, I psychically expunged my name from any relevant papers, so my role in history is currently woefully under represented."

He knows the value on controversy and negative publicity and how to change the focus of any major world event onto him.


SYDNEY OLYMPICS

The psychic Uri Geller yesterday claimed that he had caused the Olympic flame to get stuck. He said that he was at his home in Sonning-on-Thames near Reading, when he focused on the flame for 11 minutes as part of his quest for global nuclear disarmament.


WHEN BIG BEN STOPPED IN 1989

The world's best known clock outside the Houses of Parliament conked out for three hours at 11.07 am on Friday. Engineers blamed a mechanical fault. But Uri, 42, says it was down to him, and he can PROVE it. At his Berkshire home, he explained: "I have signed a contract with an American games firm, and they wanted a gimmick. They-came up with the idea of me stopping Big Ben on New Year's Eve, and faxed it over."


KIDNAPPED RACEHORSE

Aga Khan’s racehorse was kidnapped in 1983, with the IRA as prime suspects, and a ransom of £3.9m demanded. In 2001 Uri got press by claiming:

‘I feel the paymasters were Far Eastern gamblers, bent on subtly injuring the animal and returning him to race again well below his best.’




IPHONE 6

He even tried to jump on the bandwagon when people complained the iPhone 6 was bending. He did an interview with IBTimes UK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaRAKhSXu48 where he called on Apple to hire him.

"I urge Apple to hire me to explain to the world that this is not the company's fault at all," [i]he told [censored]. "I don't own an iPhone 6 -- I'm loyal to my BlackBerry and would never change -- but if I did I have no doubt I could bend it with my mind."[/i]

Unfortunately, many people watching the clip have called him out on the fact that you can see the spoon he bends is pre-cut....

Image


Most of Geller's claims go unquestioned, but sometimes his claims backfire, such as in 1998 when he told the press the English football manager Glenn Hoddle visited him at his home years earlier to seek his help, the manager then attempted to sue Geller "for libel and malicious falsehood." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sport/football/85408.stm



HELPING READING FOOTBALL CLUB WIN

Geller appeared on the front page of the Reading Evening Post, urging fans to look in his eyes and say "Win, Reading, win!"

Reading got the point they needed to go up. But manager Alan Pardew was unimpressed by Geller's intervention. "I was amazed that he could try to get on the back of our success," Pardew told Reading's official website. "As soon as we get a bit of joy, thanks to all the hard work and efforts of my staff and players, he suddenly comes out of the blue and tries to claim the limelight."


But frequently people feel Uri's desire for the spotlight goes beyond the boundaries of good taste:


KIDNAPPING OF HELGA FARKAS

In 1982, with much fanfare, Uri Geller was summoned to Budapest, Hungary, by the very wealthy family of Helga Farkas, a high school beauty queen who had mysteriously vanished. Geller was asked to put his mighty powers to work on the case. He came into the matter at the request of Helga's mother (the father apparently resented Geller's involvement) and soon determined by his psychic abilities that Helga was alive and well and would be returned "soon." This was widely announced in the press.

Geller's own words "Of course, there will always be detractors with their bad energy, but please can we now move on from the case of kidnapped Hungarian model Helga Farkas, which I was paid to investigate. Yes, I predicted she would be found alive and well. And yes, they may think they are countering this by pointing out that she was murdered by her captors. But it is a matter of interpretation. Why do they restrict readings to this astral plane? Was she not alive and well in another dimension? Who is the visionary? Who will continue my work after my own death?"


PADDINGTON RAIL DISASTER - October 1999

He was about to catch the doomed train when his brother-in-law begged him to go by road instead. Uri heeded the warning - and was stunned when he heard on his car radio that the train had crashed. Last night, spoon-bending Uri, 53, said he owes his life to the vision of death seen by Shipi Shtrang, who is also his manager.

He said: "It makes me shudder to think what might have happened. I owe my life to Shipi."

Uri had aimed to catch the train at Reading on his way to record an interview about a new book for BBC TV. Instead he travelled by chauffeur-driven car.



LESS THAN ONE WEEK AFTER THE MALAYSIAN PLANE WENT DOWN:

"I have been asked to help. I believe in remote viewing. Can you help me? Can you please try to 'see' where YOU believe the plane went down? How and why, what are you own feelings, what does your intuitive sense tell you. THANKYOU."

"I have been asked by quite a substantial figure in Malaysia what my feelings are about this situation."


AFTER 9/11: (Geller claims he was "reactivated" as a psychic spy)

“When that horrendous, tragic attack came, on the eleventh of September. I was actually a day before that in New York with Michael Jackson — ah, all the remote viewers, I believe, were reactivated — because America needed information — fast!”

“You said that after 9/11, you got a call from someone called ‘Ron’?”

“The only thing I can tell you is, that I was reactivated — by a person called ‘Ron’ — I can’t tell you what nationality and what country.”




And, as a humorous aside, one story circulating is that of astronaut Edgar Mitchell asking Geller to "teleport" a camera he left on the moon back to him. Geller failed, but then Edgar relates this extremely impressive example of Geller's powers http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/mickbrown/9597257/Astronaut_Edgar_Mitchell_Uri_Geller_and_the_Curious_Case_of_the_Reappearing_Tieclip/

As it turns out, the astronaut (who also claimed aliens exist and are being covered up by the US government) lost all credibility and was sued by NASA in 2011 when they discovered that he hadn't left the camera on the moon at all but smuggled it back home as a souvenir. http://science.slashdot.org/story/11/10/12/1650234/nasa-sues-apollo-astronaut-to-return-moon-camera


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