Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

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Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Magic Newswire » January 25th, 2015, 9:37 am

Just a quick head's up that they are about to feature P&T on a segment today on CBS Sunday Morning.
Enjoy!

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Magic Newswire » January 25th, 2015, 10:50 am

I have added a link to the story at http://www.MagicNewswire.com And you can read the complete transcript now at CBS.com:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-penn-teller-need-each-other/
They usually post video later as well.

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 25th, 2015, 3:00 pm

Nice piece.
I love these guys.

Richard, curious what your issue is with the bullet catch. Is it just because it uses guns?

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 25th, 2015, 3:28 pm

I think that in this day and age, when you have two celebrities who have to be insured or they won't be allowed to perform, the idea that they're going to point loaded guns at each other and shoot is nonsensical. People will either believe that the guns aren't really loaded, or they're not really going to aim at each other, or some other explanation. The fact that the glass shatters is just one of the many things that are supposed to prove that they really did shoot at each other, but the only thing I think all of this proves is that the method is clever, not that the trick is convincing.

These days, because people are more sophisticated, the trick has become "too perfect."

That's one of the reasons why it's a poor trick to end a show. There's a loud bang at the end, but the final image is of two guys holding up tiny bullets they've spit out of their mouths.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby brianarudolph » January 25th, 2015, 3:31 pm

So if I can coin a term for that, Richard, would "micro-prestige" sort of capture it?

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 25th, 2015, 3:45 pm

"The Bullet Catch fools more people than any trick we've ever done," said Penn Jillette.

It would be interesting to hear the duo explain this further. Clearly, there's something to it if they've made it their finale for some time. I'm guessing the suspense and emotion of the trick is timeless regardless of the "too perfect" theory.

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 25th, 2015, 4:15 pm

The Bullet Catch provides an anti-climactic end to their show. The applause for many of the earlier effects usually (at least the two or three times I've seen the show) exceeds that for the Bullet Catch. It may fool people, but that's not necessarily the best way to end the show.

The typical dramatic art of a play, since Shakespeare's time (and for most good shows of any sort) requires a big climax as the penultimate act, and then a resolution for the final act. The Bullet Catch does not get huge applause even though it may leave people wondering.

Besides, how does Penn's statement make any sense? Does the fact that the "Bullet Catch fools more people than any trick we've ever done" mean that lots of people figure out their other tricks? That's ridiculous--most magicians can't figure out the majority of their tricks, forget about laymen. Why, as a professional magician, would you do any trick that laymen can figure out? You wouldn't--it would be out of the show within a week. So his statement is meaningless.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby JHostler » January 25th, 2015, 7:15 pm

"The Bullet Catch fools more people than any trick we've ever done"

A comment likely referencing magicians, but certainly intended for lay consumption. I doubt Penn put more than a nanosecond of thought into it.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 25th, 2015, 9:49 pm

Accounting for the lack of applause, perhaps the audience is simply stunned.

And Penn's comment could reflect reactions conveyed to the team after the performance, during the generous time they spend meeting and greeting afterward. There are any number of ways P&T could come to the conclusion that that trick "fools more people than any trick we've ever done," including also emails, letters, etc.

To some (magicians) it may seem a curious way to end a show, but then why do they keep it in?

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Tom Moore » January 26th, 2015, 5:42 am

Firstly they do go to great lengths to not specifically say they are catching bullets in the actual performance (It's actually called "the magic bullets" for example) though like all performers they are choosing deliberate confusion and vagueness.

It has been tried at other points in the show and it got a more muted reaction and pulled down the next effect as well so through evolution it has ended up at the end of the show because that's where it sits best. It's also become their signature piece so it is destined to always be a finale or encore piece.

I agree with the broader sentiments though - I hate any trick (which covers most "danger effects) where ultimately the dullest, least interesting resolution is the one that actually happens because it is a huge anti-climax for the audience.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby brianarudolph » January 26th, 2015, 10:53 am

I love just about everything P&T do and have enjoyed their show immensely on numerous occasions over the years.

But despite the long and dangerous history associated with the effect (and I'm sure the deep reverence and respect that P&T have held for that in the creation of their modern performance), this seems to be a case where they should consider taking the advice long given to writers to kill their darlings. Its status as their signature piece, the audience reaction and its positioning at the end of the show should provide more than ample evidence for P&T to at least explore the matter.

The fact that two performers have pointed and fired .357 magnums at each other night after night after night after night for years after years after years after years without any incidents whatsoever occurring in all of that time indicates either an unheard of level of mental, muscular and skeletal performance and precision in two distinctly different individuals who can both track and capture a pair of small pieces of lead simultaneously rocketing toward their faces at well over 800 miles per hour from a few feet away (OK, slowed down to some degree by a piece of glass) -OR- that something else is definitely going on. To put it another way: Michael Jordan didn't make EVERY free throw. Tiger Woods didn't make EVERY three-foot putt. Tom Brady didn't complete EVERY forward pass (sorry to deflate anyone's image of these folks.)

And if P&T have conclusively determined that this effect always drags down the effect that follows, why position it at the end of the show and drag down the one effect that you never want to drag down: the effect on the audience leaving the theater?

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 26th, 2015, 11:45 am

brianarudolph wrote:d if P&T have conclusively determined that this effect always drags down the effect that follows, why position it at the end of the show and drag down the one effect that you never want to drag down: the effect on the audience leaving the theater?


Because maybe the audience's reaction to the effect merits it worthy of inclusion? And by that I mean not magicians' interpretation of the audience reaction, but the actual audience reaction as gauged by P&T. Again, they may be getting great reactions to the illusion afterward ("Wow, the bullet trick was amazing! How is that done?").

It just seems like the only reason they would keep it in, and in the spotlighted finale of the show (a featured position, as I see it), would be the audience reaction and only the audience reaction - certainly not that they are somehow wedded to the piece because of association or that it's their "darling." I have to give them more credit than that.

And I think the audience questioning the credulity of the illusion because the duo has been performing it every night for years is simply ridiculous.

It's funny, I thought an objection to this trick might have something to do with guns, not the illusion itself.

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby erdnasephile » January 26th, 2015, 11:56 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:These days, because people are more sophisticated, the trick has become "too perfect."


To me, some magicians have been their worst enemies in this phenomenon. For example, water torture cell climaxes where the magician is magically transported into the audience. It takes what should be a grand effect (cheating death by escaping drowning) to: "Hah! I was never in danger, and I'll whoop it up as I run back down through the back of the theater just to prove it!"

Therefore, for most magicians, I think for a "danger" effect to really appear realistic, the danger has to appear moderate, as opposed to truly life-threatening. For example, while most audiences would never believe most magicians would truly risk death, they might believe they would risk accidentally swallowing a needle, losing a $20 bill, or impaling their hand.

Indeed, the "stabbing" roulette effect was the first moderate danger trick that came to mind that could be more easily portrayed as real, especially if the audience was shown a YouTube montage of magicians who have actually impaled themselves while botching the effect.

Poor taste? Sure. However, it could be played very convincingly, I reckon.

Finally, this discussion reminds me of Larry Becker's Stunners Plus and what almost happened to him at the first New York Magic Symposium (pg 373). (Due to an oversight, he unwittingly performed an actual Russian Roulette before 600 people. He managed to pick the one unloaded gun purely by accident, which he didn't realize until later.)

PS: I'm not hating on P & T's bullet catch--I count myself as one of those completely fooled by it. They (and Mr. Banachek) have created something brilliant. I enjoy it!

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 26th, 2015, 12:33 pm

The audience reaction after P&T's Bullet Catch is sluggish.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby AJM » January 26th, 2015, 12:34 pm

I've seen P&T perform the bullet catch at the Rio and thought it worked very well as a closer.
(In my view the end of show is the logical place for it to be if the audience perceive there is a real risk involved.)
The bullet catch wasn't performed in London a few years back and was replaced by a fire-eating piece I hadn't seen before. Didn't quite have the same effect as a closer.
Teller mentioned after the show that the bullet catch can't be performed in certain countries / states in light of firearm laws.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 26th, 2015, 1:04 pm

I think that's the point, Andrew: whether the audience perceives real risk involved. I haven't seen that in the three times I've seen the show. Several other effects have gotten much bigger reactions.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Leonard Hevia » January 26th, 2015, 1:09 pm

If the applause is too weak after the Bullet Catch, P & T can pipe in prerecorded applause through the loudspeakers to beef up the volume and give the audience reaction a shot of B12. Some of the biggest names in magic have done this.

A shot? of B12...no pun intended. Onward...(With apologies to Racherbaumer...)
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 26th, 2015, 1:28 pm

Not just in magic.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 29th, 2015, 8:56 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:The audience reaction after P&T's Bullet Catch is sluggish.


From "7 Questions with Teller" (Huffington Post):

"Do you have tricks/illusions that you've always done and would never take out of the show?"

"There are certain audience favorites that, I think, people would miss. We've been doing the double bullet catch for now probably 20 years. And it's considered by most magicians to be the most baffling trick in magic. It's pretty thrilling. It uses a Colt python .357 magnum revolver. It's tense, and our presentation is funny and ironic as well. So that's been in our repertoire for quite awhile, and it's unlikely to go out because it's such a good trick and such an audience favorite."

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Bill Marquardt » January 29th, 2015, 11:55 am

I just saw their show at the Rio this week. It was a fabulous experience, all around, but I do have to agree that the Magic Bullet effect does seem a bit anti-climactic. Firstly, we already know what is going to happen, so there is no surprise. Secondly, after the "catch," there is a delay when the two witnesses have to return to the stage and examine the signed bullets and shell cases, which slows down reaction to the effect. Even so, it is a puzzling trick, assuming the two witnesses are not confederates.

The effect I liked best was Teller doing a Miser's Dream that ended with the production of dozens of goldfish inside a fish tank. Now that was an amazing, unexpected finale to a standard stage effect, one that I had never seen before.

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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby Richard Kaufman » January 30th, 2015, 12:16 am

Just because he feels that it is an audience favorite doesn't mean it fits well as the show's closer.
Frankly I'm not interested in Penn & Teller's opinion on this issue. Artists are remarkably poor judges of their own work. This has been demonstrated numerous times (too numerous to mention!) over thousands of years.

What does interest me are eye-witness accounts of the audience's reaction to The Bullet Catch at the end of the show as opposed to audience reactions to other routines presented in the show.
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Re: Penn & Teller on CBS Sunday Morning 1/25/15

Postby P.T.Widdle » January 30th, 2015, 8:46 am

Richard Kaufman wrote: Artists are remarkably poor judges of their own work.


Certainly this can be the case, but I don't think you can generalize here. Was Stanley Kubrick supposed to vet his artistic choices with fellow film makers? Or Picasso with other artists? Are P&T supposed check in with magicians to see whether they should keep the bullet trick in their act? I would argue part of the appeal and success of P&T is due to their doing exactly the opposite of that.

Richard Kaufman wrote:What does interest me are eye-witness accounts of the audience's reaction to The Bullet Catch at the end of the show...


As I mentioned before, the immediate audience reaction might not be the whole story. A rousing, cheering applause is not the only measure of audience satisfaction. They could simply be stunned and leave wondering, pondering, re-winding the trick in their minds as they exit the theater. And the Bullet Catch may very well be the one trick that most people mention to the duo during the meet and greet afterwards.

I'm just not one to believe P&T would be a "remarkably poor judge(s) of their own work" in this regard. Something is going on with how this trick is received that has led them to keep it in for 20 years, something perhaps not immediately discernible to a fellow magican's eye-witness interpretation of the audience reaction.


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