Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

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Richard Kaufman
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Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 19th, 2014, 11:04 am

Note the first half of the first sentence and laugh:
http://www.mcall.com/entertainment/lehi ... olumn.html
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby MManchester » November 19th, 2014, 12:17 pm

I found the accompanying photograph more humorous. I appreciate that he appears in various stages of undress frequently because he has a nice body, though this photo might be a few years old. But for promotional purposes it says more male model than magician. Not quite sure who it's supposed to appeal to.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Chris Aguilar » November 19th, 2014, 1:50 pm

MManchester wrote:Not quite sure who it's supposed to appeal to.

I would guess that it appeals to his fanbase (i.e. " The Loyal" which seems to be primarily middle aged womem.)

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Banachek » November 20th, 2014, 9:31 pm

Richard,

As far as I know, you and I get along and have great respect for each other both as people and as peers.. but I don't understand why that statement about Criss is humorous. Genii supported Criss very much until a difference of opinion came about.

After that, all of a sudden... EVERYTHING that Genii agreed with, promoted and liked about Criss Angel was wrong? I have never understood that when one disagrees or has a falling out with someone how EVERYTHING (Every little detail) you thought good about a person or performer is bad. There are a few performers I may not like as people however I will still recommend their shows if I think the show is good or worth seeing.

Criss put on over 100 episodes on TV, yourself and others supported much of what he put on at one time or another. The show was extremely successful, it allowed Criss the fame he still has, the show he got in Vegas and six seasons, another series on another network, plus as a result of that success his magic kits sold worldwide, made a ton of money, promoted magic in a good way. He has made a lot of money as a result and lives comfortably.

As you know Richard, he is one of the hardest working guys in Magic, like him or hate him, you can't deny that. Agree or disagree with him personally, his shows were hugely successful, A&E thought show, Spike TV thought so. And at one time, so did you. So what humor am I missing?
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 20th, 2014, 10:19 pm

"Magician Criss Angel, whose A&E Channel show “Mindfreak” is the most successful television magic show in history ... ."

NOT.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Banachek » November 21st, 2014, 12:51 am

Again, in your opinion it may not be the most successful cable show in magic.. but how is that hilarious in any form unless any fact you see different is funny to you, and why is it that my bigger question not answered.. How can everything you thought prior to your disagreement with him be wrong. A disagreement should not taint any facts you had believed at first, those things do not change, what changes is the relationship and attitude with the people who had a disagreement but it does not change all the good things they had in common or thought about each other. This is why often people have disagreements and get upset work things out over time.

There was a time you believed Criss was good for magic or you would not have had him on the cover so many times and sung his praises.

I just don't (I really mean this) this kind of reaction or thinking. It simply is not in my nature to hold grudges and not forgive or work things out so maybe that is why I don't get all this constant Criss Angel bashing every time his name comes up. Mention of magic in the media is good for us all as magicians, that is how I see it.
Last edited by Banachek on November 21st, 2014, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 21st, 2014, 1:16 am

"is the most successful television magic show in history."

That doesn't make you laugh?

I think if we count all the viewers for Doug Hennings' TV specials, or all the TV viewers for David Copperfield's network specials (both on major networks, not the cable ghetto), somehow I think that Mindfreak was not the "most successful television show in history."
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby P.T.Widdle » November 21st, 2014, 8:34 am

Banachek wrote: Genii supported Criss very much until a difference of opinion came about.


I seem to recall the shift taking place around the time that Criss Angel did the reanimated corpse stunt on TV. Richard wrote a pretty scathing editorial about the piece, which, if I remember correctly, he found beyond distasteful, bordering on I daresay, ethically and morally repugnant? I happen to agree on that front, but some might argue that the stunt was merely ridiculous and that it shouldn't affect the relationship of the individuals involved.

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 21st, 2014, 10:08 am

Long before that.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Banachek » November 21st, 2014, 12:28 pm

No, the change happened over a cover article that was to appear in Genii that was favorable for Criss but his agents wanted some changes last minute.. Long story and not worth the details but it did cause Richard some issues. As a result there has been tension between the two but my point is, that issue does not rewash everything that was written in Genii, appeared in Genii before or even in that article to the point where ANYTHING and EVERYTHING Criss does or did before is bad, I just don't get that kind of thinking.

There is a whole generation of magicians who thought magic was/is cool because of Criss, love or hate the style. He has been good for magic and a large responsibility for the resurgence in the mass media. He opened many doors for others to have specials on TV. That is a fact, I know networks who actively looked for someone to do a show because of Criss' success on TV.

And no, I don't find it hilarious. Even if I disagreed. I guess if you think that way you have to think HOudini was hilarious. Heck a hell of a lot of what he said happened never did.. he promoted himself and so much so he is a household name even today. Who ever says in their promo... "I am the worlds 6th best magician." THat is just silly. Don't get me wrong or misuse my statements, I am not saying Criss is wrong, I am just saying that even if you disagree, then you disagree, it does not make it funny in any way. To say so is simply being insulting, not dealing with the facts. And again, I don't understand that mean behaviour. Like or dislike each other as performers we should all support magic and put it in a best possible light and stop the silly teenager behaviour I see so prevalent in these forums and between each other.

Richard you do so much good for magic by promoting it in your magazine, your energy is so much better spent doing such and so respected when you do, that when you spend time putting other performers down every chance you get over petty disagreements it unfortunately, in my eyes, takes away from that. I personally would love it if you stayed along the lines where I can respect you and your opinions. You shine when you are focusing on the good of magic and the best of magic and promoting our art and sharing within our community as well to further our art.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 21st, 2014, 12:59 pm

Banachek wrote:... silly teenager behaviour I see so prevalent in these forums...


may be what drives this niche market
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Ted M » November 21st, 2014, 1:05 pm

Banachek wrote:No, the change happened over a cover article that was to appear in Genii that was favorable for Criss but his agents wanted some changes last minute.. Long story and not worth the details but it did cause Richard some issues.


Why would any performer's agent expect to exert editorial control over the content of an independent magazine?

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Banachek » November 21st, 2014, 1:35 pm

Why would any performer's agent expect to exert editorial control over the content of an independent magazine?


If you are going to ask that question then you should ask why a magazine would agree to do a story under those conditions? They do not have to agree. It works both ways and consequences result both ways in the end. Obviously there was such an agreement because the article was pulled.

We can nit pick and go back on forth all day on these silly things. I have refused interviews in the past when I knew beyond a doubt that a reporter was biased and had attacked others in the past and they would take anything I say out of context, so why give them fuel for their agenda and then have to put my own words back into context later, which would be an impossible task. Especially when it comes to the skeptic community of which I am a major part. Heck, often on these type of boards, magicians with their own agenda, take my words out of context right below the full context knowing that people do not read all of the posts.

It is quite common for many performers to want to have last say on an article, many stars ONLY AGREE to such interviews if THEY get last and final approval even in major publications. Changes get made all the time. This is not something many are aware of, but they want to control their brand. Something most magicians do not understand and get burned by time and time again.

Understanding your brand, and controlling your brand is very important as much as you possibly can. I have hung out with many major stars and they all try to control it as much as they can. Some reporters agree, some do not. Some artists do not demand to have final approval over content, but very many do.

The detail to which Criss, Copperfield and others go to, even in pictures for release, would amaze you. It is an art all of its own. Once it is out there, it is out there forever and others will use it all time and time again. So it has to be perfect.

One of the big reasons professionals do not want their shows taped, is because we want control over what is put out there. The one time we make a mistake in our show can be the one video that everyone sees over and over, so why would we not want to put our best foot forward to the masses and possible clients. Controlling our brand should be each and every one of our biggest concerns, but for many it is not. How many of you look at the pictures people take with you yourself to make sure it is a good picture? You should. Do you want a picture of you with food on your beard to to be on a web site? A bad squinty open mouth picture used in an article about how they met you? Fly open? Booger hanging out of your nose?

I do not know the details of the disagreement between Criss and Richard, I don't ask, and I don't care to be honest. It was a long while back. I respect both for different reasons. And my original post here had nothing to do with that.

My point seems to be getting lost and diluted on purpose.. I guess there is no good answer so there is no answer given? Blanket dislike simply is not logical after one has sung praises prior about certain major parts of a performer. Going out of ones way to put someone down every chance you get due to a disagreement is just not in my comprehension. even the title to this topic. Again, I don't get it.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby AJM » November 21st, 2014, 4:46 pm

Well that was a bit of a ramble...

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Banachek » November 21st, 2014, 5:26 pm

AJM,

Well that was a bit of a ramble...

for some yes, for others there is valuable information. :-)
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby AJM » November 21st, 2014, 5:52 pm

You either know the nature of the disagreement...

Banachek wrote:No, the change happened over a cover article that was to appear in Genii that was favorable for Criss but his agents wanted some changes last minute.. Long story and not worth the details but it did cause Richard some issues.


or you don't...

Banachek wrote:I do not know the details of the disagreement between Criss and Richard, I don't ask, and I don't care to be honest.


Whatever the reason, it is a matter between Mr K and Mr A.

Whatever the original point of your post, I'm sure it has been made.

Hence, a bit of a ramble...

:)

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Banachek » November 21st, 2014, 7:28 pm

Andrew, that simply means I don't know all the FINE details and exactly WHAT changes and the EXACT agreement put forth ahead of time. The basic story I know and it was more than I told. :-) so both statements were correct. The first even states "not worth the details". the second states "I don't know all the details and do not care to know" and I don't due to the fact as stated in the first statement "not worth all the details"

Again a ramble if you will :-)
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 22nd, 2014, 1:08 am

That's correct, Banachek, you don't know anything other than what was told to you by Criss or perhaps Dave Baram.

And that means you don't know any of the details.

I was pretty supportive of Criss at the beginning.

And then it ended ... very badly. Just like it did for you.

But now you've got a job again, so I won't repeat all the things you said to me about Criss after he fired you the first time.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Banachek » November 22nd, 2014, 10:37 am

actually, it was what was told to me by you Richard shortly after at a convention.. Criss told me very little if anything, Dave told me nothing. As for what was said at the heat of the moment via me leaving. Yes, Criss knows most of it, and that is my point. People move on. Hell, my wife has said things about me, me things about her.. brothers say say things about each other, but in the end, they all work it out and love each other. My job with Criss is secondary, I don't need it. Our friendship is more important. We stayed friends and that is why we ended up working together again after two years. As said before, I don't hold grudges.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 22nd, 2014, 2:02 pm

Well, then you know part of my side of the story and it's not a pleasant one.
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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Dustin Stinett » November 22nd, 2014, 2:41 pm

Image
Yeah, that’s my head exploding.

Banchek, you may have heard it from Richard, but clearly you were not listening because I was involved and know what happened. What you posited is not what happened. However, it’s also possible that, over time, you simply are misremembering, so I am willing to give you that.

As for “moving on,” I know that I am past it (as in “I give up”), but frankly, in this case I really don’t expect Richard to. Personally, I think it would be really swell if Mr. Angel made what happened right, because that ball rests in his court, not Richard’s. I really don’t expect that to happen either.

While I have moved on, it’s understandable that I am no longer a fan of Criss Angel’s, so I try to remain indifferent about him when I can; that’s the best I can do in this case. Fortunately, he was never a friend or even an acquaintance of mine, so it’s easy for me.

However, completely ignoring him is not an option. When his publicity makes a demonstrably false statement or his work liberally “borrows” from another producer, that’s news worth reporting. If the journalistic point of view comes across as negative, well bummer, since the news is, in fact, negative.

If something else—something positive—worth sharing happens we might report it; let us know. For example, while there has been a falling out between Genii and Penn & Teller, we still report positive events for them because they (P&T) are newsworthy.

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Rick Ruhl » November 22nd, 2014, 8:14 pm

Criss stole Kevin James's cutting.. Kevin said no, Criss did it anyway.. Johnny Thompson quit after that.

Ethics...

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Dustin Stinett » November 22nd, 2014, 9:31 pm

For the record, while Kevin certainly popularized it for modern audiences, the half-person cutting was invented by Rajah Raboid back in the 1930s with Johnny Eck.

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Rick Ruhl » November 23rd, 2014, 12:37 am

Just did a little research .

Doug Henning 50,000,000 viewers
Criss Angel 2,700,000 viewers..

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Tim Ellis » November 23rd, 2014, 1:13 am

This is the part of the article that offended me

He said he’ll even perform pieces he’s never done before, such as one from the movie “Lord of Illusions” in which swords hanging above him drop as decided by the audience as he avoids “having them pierce my heart.”



He HAS performed it before, on his TV show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ldg_CCcoo0

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Tim Ellis » November 23rd, 2014, 1:16 am

Sorry, that was Jan Rouven doing the trick on German Tv in 2009.

Here is Criss doing it on his show in 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsdyYQ8yZN0

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby John LeBlanc » November 23rd, 2014, 9:58 pm

Given the apparent absurdity of the statement, I wrote the author of the article for his explanation and, ostensibly, his unique definition of "most successful television magic show in history." I suspect the explanation, insofar as it can be explained, will pivot on the definition of the words "television" and "history."

Or "most." Or "successful."

I predict the response, if it arrives, will reference marketing materials accompanying the show.

John

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Re: Criss Angel is the Biggest ...

Postby Dustin Stinett » November 23rd, 2014, 10:24 pm

And John, for what it's worth, that 50 million number for Henning was just the number of viewers for his first live show on NBC. He did another six more shows. And David Copperfield did 15 on network (broadcast) television. So if they are going to add up the number of viewers for each episode (and each rerun, etc. etc. ... which is what, as an analyst, I suspect is being done), so too can Henning and Copperfield.


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