Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

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MManchester
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby MManchester » August 25th, 2014, 11:02 am

These days you literally cannot give away anything on VHS.


I bought 3 VHS tapes from John Carney last year, Gaetan Bloom's Tales From the Planet Bloom. The tapes were one third the price of buying the same collection on DVD. I'll admit I'm a rarity though. The advantage of buying a quality Sony VCR that is still working decades later.

PS: I also have a working laserdisc player if anyone has quality magic in that format they no longer need. ;)
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 25th, 2014, 11:27 am

Elliot.

I appreciate your passionate defense however no DVD on cards tricks, tricks that are awesome in the hands of the creator but likely not so much in the hands of anyone else, is going to transform the world of magic no matter how well produced they are.

Now - production levels may hit a new standard, but that's confusing the media of instruction with the art if the content. Dan, Dave and Homer have each raised the bar in this regard. We HAVE seen transformations in the production value of magic videos, but in magic itself - not so much.

I do NOT believe dan and dave whom I consider friends are trying to rip anyone off. I am merely pointing out how hype, when it reaches as certain point, ends up detracting from the perception of a product rather than adding to it.

I found it off putting and lazy. I commented on that. isn't that we we do on a forum?

Thanks for taking the time to define some words for us. I hope I was able to give you some context so those words now have meaning for you.

your extra credit homework, should you be interested in the growth and influence of marketing in the magic marketplace, would be to look at the number of ads that promise transformation or next level revolutions that never deliver. Then consider how by using those same promises one merely invites comparison to disappointing releases of the past. That's of course if you are interested in the real issue and not just defending people you like. having reviewed products for a major magic magazine for many years, perhaps I am overly sensitive to such issues or just more readily aware from my experience.

regardless, I'm sad for Guy that work constructed which so much thought and care is being advertised so thoughtlessly and carelessly.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Bill Mullins » August 25th, 2014, 11:42 am

The sad part of all this is, as I've discussed with Brad offline, is that hyperbole and over-the-topness is completely unnecessary here. Guy Hollingworth's material will just about sell itself. Put him in front of a camera, burn a DVD and stick it in a sleeve -- I'd buy it. No need for fancy boxes or bonus decks of cards (I've still got plenty of Walgreen Studs laying around).

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 25th, 2014, 12:23 pm

Maybe some folks will want it for the packaging and discover the work behind the tricks later on.
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Elliott Terral » August 25th, 2014, 12:45 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:Elliot.

I appreciate your passionate defense however no DVD on cards tricks, tricks that are awesome in the hands of the creator but likely not so much in the hands of anyone else, is going to transform the world of magic no matter how well produced they are.

Now - production levels may hit a new standard, but that's confusing the media of instruction with the art if the content. Dan, Dave and Homer have each raised the bar in this regard. We HAVE seen transformations in the production value of magic videos, but in magic itself - not so much.

I do NOT believe dan and dave whom I consider friends are trying to rip anyone off. I am merely pointing out how hype, when it reaches as certain point, ends up detracting from the perception of a product rather than adding to it.

I found it off putting and lazy. I commented on that. isn't that we we do on a forum?

Thanks for taking the time to define some words for us. I hope I was able to give you some context so those words now have meaning for you.

your extra credit homework, should you be interested in the growth and influence of marketing in the magic marketplace, would be to look at the number of ads that promise transformation or next level revolutions that never deliver. Then consider how by using those same promises one merely invites comparison to disappointing releases of the past. That's of course if you are interested in the real issue and not just defending people you like. having reviewed products for a major magic magazine for many years, perhaps I am overly sensitive to such issues or just more readily aware from my experience.

regardless, I'm sad for Guy that work constructed which so much thought and care is being advertised so thoughtlessly and carelessly.


Bred.

Just because you were confused, does not mean that the the information itself is inherently confusing (such is the nature of a misunderstanding).

Hype can certainly detract. Sure. But let's focus on the entire point of the packaging, "hype", presentation. Guy has a very unique, polished style. The entire idea is to match the Collection with his style. Cohesiveness in presentation does not necessarily make "hype". Because you and others are jaded and have been burned (you did, after all, review magic for a magazine) you are indeed a little more sensitive to the "buzzwords". However, that doesn't mean the intentions behind their use are devious, nor do they necessarily detract from a product/project/etc. As you point out, context is key, so why not put the words into context?

As has been pointed out, Guy's magic has been super influential, regardless of if it looks " awesome in the hands of the creator but likely not so much in the hands of anyone else". There's your context. Hype is only hype if the collection doesn't live up to the "promise," and unfortunately for you, you've fundamentally misunderstood the "promise". They never say, "this project will revolutionize magic and change everything for the better." They say, "...potential to transform..." Dan and Dave have facilitated an enormous change in how magic is presented, whether you like that or not. Who's to say that youngsters that are now possibly experiencing Guy's magic for the first time, won't have a similar impact. There's your "potential".

And I'm very familiar with advertising that doesn't deliver. I've done my homework (majored in Integrated Marketing Communications in college while simultaneously studying magic, so yeah I think I "get it"). But like Richard said, "If you want to bitch about the ad hype of a crap product that's one thing, but when it's a good product, who wants to listen?"

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby paulsmith » August 25th, 2014, 1:11 pm

I want to listen if you don't mind Elliot.I think Brad makes a great point.
The aim of the ad. is to try and bring in the children to buy as well as the adults.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 25th, 2014, 1:46 pm

elliot,

I see now. the misunderstanding and confusion is not from me, but from you!

See, you claim that I believed there was some deviousness to the advertising. if you read what I ACTUALLY wrote you will see that was never said or suggested. in fact I even clearly said that they meant no harm.

you must have overlooked that in your zeal to share your powerful and deep insights.

you also must have missed the entire point of my posts because I said the issue is that people so thoughtful do themselves a disservice when saying thoughtless things.

I even gave an example Of how the exact same content could be communicated without sending up red flags.

(and yes, many kids may now be exposed to Guy - a point contrary to that was never made. But is that really going to transform magic? some of the material is decades old and already developed in other peoples work. plus, is it a positive transformation to just have more people doing the same things?)

Now it is true, as someone who actually reads the words put in front of me I may be overly sensitive to what those words actually say. I may even be able to recall other instances when similar or exact words were used and my experiences that resulted.

of that I am guilty.

but I also have 150 bucks in my pocket that I'm sure dan and dave wouldn't mind having.

so - is it to their advantage to get me reaching into my wallet without thinking or asking myself, 'not this same tired bull crap again?' even if only about the advertising? (which was exactly my experience and I know you will not be so bold as to suggest my experience is somehow less important than yours.)

as an integrated marketing expert I'm sure you know the answer to that.

ps - do you have any affiliation with dan and dave or this product?

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Ted M » August 25th, 2014, 2:33 pm

Brad, how do you feel about L&L using "The World's Greatest Magic" to describe their collection of half a dozen guys doing tricks with business cards?

How do you feel about Eugene Burger claiming to perform "The World's Fastest Card Trick"?

If I really wanted to nitpick the Hollingworth Collection's advertising, I'd simply note that (a) despite their otherwise great video production values, neither Dan nor Dave seem comfortable reading cue cards on camera so they might consider memorizing their lines, and (b) whoever wrote the print ad in Genii doesn't know what "prolific" means.

Hooray for Guy Hollingworth! I look forward to his work!

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 25th, 2014, 3:28 pm

Ted M wrote:Brad, how do you feel about L&L using "The World's Greatest Magic" to describe their collection of half a dozen guys doing tricks with business cards?

How do you feel about Eugene Burger claiming to perform "The World's Fastest Card Trick"?

If I really wanted to nitpick the Hollingworth Collection's advertising, I'd simply note that (a) despite their otherwise great video production values, neither Dan nor Dave seem comfortable reading cue cards on camera so they might consider memorizing their lines, and (b) whoever wrote the print ad in Genii doesn't know what "prolific" means.

Hooray for Guy Hollingworth! I look forward to his work!


A title for a trick used in front of the public is fair game, especially if said trick may be perceived by the public to measure up to the claim. Eugene's can.

Could these be the world's greatest packet tricks or world's greatest business card tricks? That could be a true statement. I have no issue with that.

Both of your examples are profoundly different from saying that buying a trick will transform or revolutionize the world of magic - especially when they are tricks that have been in circulation now for decades.

NOW, COULD a trick potentially do this? As a skeptic I have to keep my mind open to the possibilities. But given the number of times i have seen this promise and have not once been witness to the forthcoming revolt, it makes me scoff.

Is the world a bad place because I scoff?

No, not really.

But as a magician I care about how magic is presented both to the public as well as in our educational materials. I believe I am allowed to do that.

And as people are encouraged to comment on how the ad makes them feel positively, I would hope I would be encouraged the same opportunity to point out how the ad made me feel negatively,

That seems reasonable, yes?

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Ian Kendall » August 25th, 2014, 3:36 pm

*gets popcorn*

Brad did touch on a valid point somewhere back there; there are a few performers who are so idiosyncratic that their material, while astonishing in their hands, usually fails to shine in the hands of others. Either the body language or performance styles are so unique, or the whole approach to performance is tied to the person, that it becomes hard to dissociate the method from the person in order to inject one's own style into the routine. Names that spring immediately to mind here are people like Guy, Dani and Lennart.

I know, from watching the VHS tapes at the time, that very little of the material fits me and my style, so I'll be letting one thousand other people enjoy it.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 25th, 2014, 4:16 pm

Sound - fury - signifying?

still, it's an hour strut.

I hope the Hollingworth material gets a good audience.
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 25th, 2014, 4:21 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:The sad part of all this is, as I've discussed with Brad offline, is that hyperbole and over-the-topness is completely unnecessary here. Guy Hollingworth's material will just about sell itself. Put him in front of a camera, burn a DVD and stick it in a sleeve -- I'd buy it. No need for fancy boxes or bonus decks of cards (I've still got plenty of Walgreen Studs laying around).


Sorry to disagree, Bill, but you don't understand the psychology of selling magic in today's online market, or to Dan & Dave's core market (and obviously neither does Brad).

So let me spell it out for you: a good portion of Dan & Dave's customers, who are young, may have never heard of Guy Hollingworth--thus the hyperbole. End of story.

Including a cool deck of cards? There are more people collecting decks of cards than there are buying books, DVDs, tricks, or downloads. It's a GREAT idea to put a unique deck of cards in the set, and for Dan & Dave's target audience, makes the product much more appealing.

Nobody writing in this really long, tedious thread has any first-hand experience at the online marketing of magic products to today's young magicians. Do Dan & Dave do a poor job of reading their cue cards or teleprompter--yes. So the hell what.

This is supposed to be a thread about an exciting new product, not a venue for Brad to post incredibly long and tiresome essays about what he thinks magic marketing should be like. He doesn't know crap about selling magic online to today's young audience because they're people he's never sold stuff to, and people he's never met (because they don't come to magic camp, or go to conventions).
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Chris Aguilar » August 25th, 2014, 4:34 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:
This is supposed to be a thread about an exciting new product...

I want to be excited by this product, but it's tough without any real knowledge of what differentiates it from previously released materials.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 25th, 2014, 4:35 pm

Richard,

Some of us do things that you don't know about. Not everyone is constantly trying to sell themselves and brag about their work.

No one has EVER suggested that young people might not be exposed to Guy from this video. That was never the point.

The point is that when you promise silly things it makes you seem silly. Now, you might want to think that young people don't know bs when they see it, but I can tell you, they do. And I've built an entire career based on not underestimating the intelligence of young people.

How many times does a young magic buyer get promised the next revolution? How many times do they get what they are promised?

Even stupid kids get wise eventually.


So, thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts and opinions on this. I realize they are not aligned with your own. But that's ok, right?

And in the future, will you please tell us what these threads are meant to be about. In the past we have been allowed, even encouraged to go on tangents. Is this a new rule, or only one that applies to people who might not agree with the status quo?

Brad

ps. I don't go to magic camp. Never have. Sorry to disappoint.
pps. I've tried to deal with issues. Let's not make this personal, please.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby erdnasephile » August 25th, 2014, 7:41 pm

FWIW, I went back through some old Genii's to look up ads of some other high profile products (including rereleases) to see if they listed very detailed contents in the ads.

With the exception of Carney's The Masters Sessions, I didn't find any. I didn't go through more than a few years worth, but I think I can safely say that detailed tables of contents are probably the exception more than the rule.

Does that make it ideal? No--I agree a detailed listing would be cool and allow a more informed buying decision. (However, as many of you all have already pointed out, an ad is not primarily for education).

But just keeping it real: I think that to get that detailed comparison with the previous tapes, one may have to either speak with Dan and Dave (or Guy) directly or wait for one of the professional reviews--which will hopefully address that precise comparison. With 1,000 copies in production at $150 a pop, I suspect there will be plenty left when the reviews come out.

For my part, I'm buying this because the material on the tapes suits me very well, and I would like to have it on DVD. Hearing Guy's commentary and updates is something that I would value. I've bought loads of stuff from Guy and he has yet to disappoint me. (He's on the short list of people I'll buy from sight unseen) At the very least, I'm getting professional DVD copies of great materal at $50 a piece, which is worth it to me. The cards are just a nice bonus.

I'm looking forward to it.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Bill Mullins » August 25th, 2014, 10:02 pm

I realize that I'm an old fart who wishes these kids (with their weird hair and their music and their downloads and their flourishes) would just GET OFF MY LAWN!

Having said that, I still think it's okay to describe how good a Hollingworth video is in clear, non-exaggerated language, and also that it won't change your life or whiten your teeth or get your ashes hauled or whatever.

It's a good thing that my living doesn't depend on making retail sales to 20 year old magic enthusiasts. I'd go broke for sure.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Bill Marquardt » August 26th, 2014, 3:42 am

Looks like a good deal to me as I have none of Guy's previous releases, so I am glad to see this.

As far as the tangential discussion goes, when I got back into magic a few years ago I was a bit surprised to see how magic was being marketed. I was inspired to create a satirical video showing what I believe might be the (near) future of magic marketing. If you did not see The Magic Shopping Network, the last time I posted it, and you have ten minutes to spare, you may enjoy watching it. Some of what goes on in the video was inspired by discussions on this board and the Cafe. At any rate, I believe it touches on the subject of the current discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM0kf7XUAB0

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby erdnasephile » August 26th, 2014, 5:49 am

Bill Mullins wrote:I realize that I'm an old fart who wishes these kids (with their weird hair and their music and their downloads and their flourishes) would just GET OFF MY LAWN!

Having said that, I still think it's okay to describe how good a Hollingworth video is in clear, non-exaggerated language, and also that it won't change your life or whiten your teeth or get your ashes hauled or whatever.

It's a good thing that my living doesn't depend on making retail sales to 20 year old magic enthusiasts. I'd go broke for sure.


I'm old too, but hasn't advertising hype been part and parcel of magic even when we were kids?

For example: "Be the life of the party!" is really saying: "Buy this trick--it'll make you cool (loser)."

On a more base level, isn't that why most tyros keep buying new tricks? They are perpetually looking for that one trick that will put them over the top (i.e., change their lives) instead of working on what's already on their shelves.

Hype sometimes gives me the willies as well, but as Brad said, I'm pretty sure the 20-somethings get it (at least the smart ones do).

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby mrgoat » August 26th, 2014, 6:45 am

I'm not really sure just because "everyone does it" that means we should accept such bollocks in advertising.

Ben Harris is the worst culprit of out and out lying in his marketing material.

In the UK, you can complain to the Advertising Standards Authority if you think an ad is misleading and they will investigate and get it removed. Not sure if there is something similar in the States, but imagine there is.

Worst thing is, as Mr Henderson has demonstrated, it would be easy enough to write some good copy without the hyperbole.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 26th, 2014, 11:43 am

The hype is something young folks have come to expect: almost all tricks are marketed this way now.

Dustin Stinett has one of the sets and you'll see a review in the October issue of Genii (online September 14).
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Chris Aguilar » August 26th, 2014, 12:01 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:The hype is something young folks have come to expect: almost all tricks are marketed this way now.

Dustin Stinett has one of the sets and you'll see a review in the October issue of Genii (online September 14).

I look forward to the review and expect (as he usually does) that Dustin will give a pretty complete accounting of the actual contents here.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Rick Ruhl » August 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm

The goal of any business is to remove their money from your wallet. Good marketing accomplishes this....

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Joe Mckay » August 26th, 2014, 1:00 pm

I hope Dustin will cover whether or not there are any new handling ideas included for the 'Reformation' trick.

That is what most interests me about the set.
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 26th, 2014, 1:20 pm

Yes, of course he will!
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 26th, 2014, 2:22 pm

Rick Ruhl wrote:The goal of any business is to remove their money from your wallet. Good marketing accomplishes this....


exactly.

one would think an opinion that pointed out how an ad may have failed to do this wouldn't spark outrage and damnation.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby AJM » August 26th, 2014, 2:25 pm

So, anyone else got their order in - or is it just me so far?

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby I.M. Magician » August 26th, 2014, 2:28 pm

I was going to order it but now I am so confused... :cry:

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 26th, 2014, 2:55 pm

since I have obviously contributed to the confusion, allow me to clear things up:

if you like great magic, especially sleight of hand magic that is intelligent and presented with an air of sophistication, order it.

if you are looking for something that will transform magic as you know it and usher in the next great revolution of conjuring . . . save up for my latest card at any number. It's the holy grail. It takes it to the next level. Magic will never be the same!

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Rick Ruhl » August 26th, 2014, 4:01 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:
Rick Ruhl wrote:The goal of any business is to remove their money from your wallet. Good marketing accomplishes this....


exactly.

one would think an opinion that pointed out how an ad may have failed to do this wouldn't spark outrage and damnation.


But it got attention, which is the goal. and has made it more visible to the forum members....that, in itself, it good marketing.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 26th, 2014, 4:08 pm

well - I think I deserve more credit for that than the ad itself. as RK said, this hype is so common to be meaningless.

but whatever.

still have cash in my pocket fwiw.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby erdnasephile » August 26th, 2014, 10:01 pm

AJM wrote:So, anyone else got their order in - or is it just me so far?


Nope. :D

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby erdnasephile » August 26th, 2014, 10:17 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:...if you like great magic, especially sleight of hand magic that is intelligent and presented with an air of sophistication, order it...


The other thing I would tell prospective buyers unfamilliar with Guy. I would suggest to them to only order the set if they are willing to put in a significant amount of work because Guy's stuff is often difficult.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 26th, 2014, 10:18 pm

You don't have to practice the tricks, or do the tricks, in order to appreciate their artistry. I'll never be able to do Reformation, but I love watching Guy do it. Just one example of many. He never looks like he's working hard--the mark of a true artist.
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby erdnasephile » August 27th, 2014, 12:45 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:You don't have to practice the tricks, or do the tricks, in order to appreciate their artistry. I'll never be able to do Reformation, but I love watching Guy do it. Just one example of many. He never looks like he's working hard--the mark of a true artist.


That's a good point--I hadn't thought of that.

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby mrgoat » August 27th, 2014, 4:35 am

Rick Ruhl wrote:
But it got attention, which is the goal. and has made it more visible to the forum members....that, in itself, it good marketing.


I would have thought the goal was to sell the thing.

I work in marketing, and if I said to my clients "hey, no one bought anything, but loads of people are talking about it, many in a disparaging way" do you think they would think that is "good marketing"

of course it isn;t "good marketing".

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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby erdnasephile » August 27th, 2014, 9:36 am

It's kind of ironic that we're discussing the overhyping of this product.

I don't know Guy, but in viewing his lectures and videos, he certainly doesn't project arrogance or worse, a false modesty.

Indeed, even in "Drawing Room Deceptions" the tone is really humble: For example: "...I am faced with a problem: what can I an inexperienced 24 year old, possibly say that has not already been said before? I am unlikely to be able to explain any deeper inner meaning of magic that has not already been discovered, and I have certainly not devoted the time and energy that many others have to provide new ideas on the principles of misdirection." (pg 14)

If anything, he sounds rather grounded for his level of skill and achievement.

Besides, anyone who would allow this on one of his own products has gotta' be cool...



I.M. Magician
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby I.M. Magician » August 27th, 2014, 10:02 am

It appears to me that what has been done on this thread is the equivalent to saying a word too many times. Eventually, the word does not sound familiar by repeating it too much.

If you like what Hollingworth does, then buy the box set. The reason for buying it can be just to collect, as an investment, or to open and use. It doesn't matter why you decide to purchase it.

This thread may be the poster child for over evaluating a product and it's advertisement. :roll:

Roger M.
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Roger M. » August 27th, 2014, 10:03 am

This thread has wandered a bit.

There seems to be two camps having two rather different conversations.

One camp wants to discuss marketing and whether D&D are using excess hyperbole in a manner that is inappropriate, and the other camp simply seeks a detailed index of the DVD offering.

The "marketing" camp is engaged in a somewhat heated exchange with no real right or wrong answer to be found.

The "index" camp simply wants some more information about a DVD set they're probably going to buy anyway, but who collectively thought it would be worthwhile to investigate the possibility of receiving a bit more information prior to purchase.

If split into two different threads, one thread would be a hand wringing exercise in magic marketing and ethics such that it would ramble on for days (if not weeks), and the other thread would be a very short "hey anybody got an index" affair that would probably end after 5 or 6 posts when it became apparent that, in fact, nobody has a detailed index.

The "marketing" camp will withhold their hard earned dollars in an effort to make their important point ... the "index" camp was always going to buy the DVD's anyway, and collectively have no point to make.

This has been a pointless post from one of the "index" folks.

Brad Henderson
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby Brad Henderson » August 27th, 2014, 10:46 am

not exactly

there has never been an ethical comcern raised but it is interesting perhaps that magicians, being an overly sensitive lot, often take any criticism as personal or read more into it than needed - even when not directed at them.

Someone announced a product by pointing to an ad. people started sharing their thoughts based on that ad. I merely did the same and that thought was for both a magician whose work is so thoughtful and producers whose production value is so thoughtful it was a shame that their ad was not.

just an observation.

then a bunch of people got their panties in a wad because that's not what this thread was 'supposed to be about', I suppose.

in magic, It's ok to be a fan boy based on an ad but to read an ad and express how a tired cliche is off putting and reflects poorly on the thoughtfulness of those involved - heresy.

again, not an ethical issue. just someone doing exactly what everyone else was doing.

the rest was clearing up confusion and defending oneself from attacks and name calling.

perhaps THAT will clear things up

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AJM
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Re: Get Out Your Money: The Hollingworth Collection is Here!

Postby AJM » August 27th, 2014, 11:57 am

I very much doubt it.


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