Those eBay autographs won't satisfy.
From the accounts above, everybody received a signed booklet written by Ricky Jay about Dai Vernon. But that signature was only about Ricky Jay, Ricky Jay's writing, and Ricky Jay's mentor.
The dissatisfied seem to have wanted the weekend performance to be about themselves.
The general thrust of the complaints seems to be that Ricky Jay did not perform the obviously fake illusion that certain attendees were personally important to him by pasting on a smile and posing for snapshots with them, nor would he write disingenuous personalized wishes to them with his signature attached.
A tourist can get a signed photo of him/herself being hugged by Mickey Mouse at Disney World. But that's pretty obviously not the model intended for this event.
No fancy bag to carry around proudly during the weekend? Damn straight. Why? I expect it's for the same reason that guests weren't supplied with mouse ears to wear.
Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
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Bill Mullins
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Financial author Andrew Tobias attended. And so did blogger Tom Dupree (and now I'd like to see John Astin speak).
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Nothing really surprising here. I was really depressed because I was not able to afford this event, but was pretty sure it would go that way. My real big regret is that most of his fantastic knowledge will probably be lost forever. That's a pity because he learned the craft precisely because some people showed him the techniques. But in another way, I can understand him when I see Youtube, the torrents, and the general magician's mentality...
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Matthew Field
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Someone mentioned that Ricky Jay is 70+ years old. He is four years younger than I and I just turned 70.
I think Ricky is a fine magician and a good actor. Making a living in either of these professions is difficult. Because of his acting exposure, Ricky is something of a celebrity. Taking advantage of that to earn a fee is all part of the game.
As an author whom Ricky and I both admire put it, "...the sum of our present knowledge is proferred . . . for any purpose it may answer, to friend and foe, to the wise and the foolish, to the good and the bad, to all alike, with but one reservation -- that he has the price."
Selah.
Matt Field
I think Ricky is a fine magician and a good actor. Making a living in either of these professions is difficult. Because of his acting exposure, Ricky is something of a celebrity. Taking advantage of that to earn a fee is all part of the game.
As an author whom Ricky and I both admire put it, "...the sum of our present knowledge is proferred . . . for any purpose it may answer, to friend and foe, to the wise and the foolish, to the good and the bad, to all alike, with but one reservation -- that he has the price."
Selah.
Matt Field
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
I went. I was extremely disappointed.
There were, in general, two groups of people. Ricky Jay fans, and magicians. The latter groups was much smaller, maybe 10%. The fans seemed generally happy - the magicians generally unhappy/upset.
The program quite simply was not as advertised. From the advertisement for the Congress.
“The evening might be considered a course in magic appreciation”
- Attendants were prohibited from doing magic for other registrants. Most of the lectures were not about magic, and did not even touch on magic. It was certainly NOT a course in magic appreciation, as advertised.
“A weekend in which you will hang out with and learn from a group of top-notch professionals who will entertain you and lead you to a deeper understanding of the oldest and most universal of performing arts”
- Disscussions rarely had anything to do with magic, and, with rare exception, did not even reference magic. There was no hanging out, until Sunday evening. No "deeper understanding" was gained, or even attempted.
“You will examine and better understand the differences between good, bad, and great magic through examples and discussions.”
- Such discussions never occurred. There was two videos, one of Ricky Jay as a child, and one of Jonathan Levitt, where performances were ridiculed, but other than that, not such discussions of good, bad, or great magic ever took place.
“Over the weekend, you will gain a better understanding of practice.”
- This discussion did not occur. In fact, the speaker who touched on such a topic, specifically stated – in a response to questions - that he did not know anything about practice research. No speaker addressed their practice routines, and none discussed practice as applies to magic.
“Explore common roots of deception between the magician and the con man.”
- This discussion did not happen. There was a video clip from a TV series that has not been released, but no discussion.
“Learn about magic and its relationship to light, theater, film, and psychology.”
- Did not happen. Lighting legend Jules Fisher talked about lighting, but only in a historical sense, as relates to magic. Relationship to film was only presented in terms of “We did this film.” Other topics were not talked about.
As for the schedule –
Saturday 10:30 lecture did not happen (different topic)
Saturday 9:00 – 11 – lecture did not occur. Time was not filled.
Sunday 2:30 – lecture did not happen (different topic)
The AV setup was poorly run, and often didn't work. Sessions started late, and attendees were left standing in a parking lot for up to 15 minutes. Sessions sometimes did not run as long as scheduled.
Quite simply, the Congress was not as advertised. As someone who spent a lot of money based on what turned out to be false advertisement, I am both extremely disappointed and quite upset.
FWIW, I think that the comments pertaining to Ricky Jay himself are off base. The problems with the "Congress of Wonders" were not personal - they were with the Congress itself. I had the chance to speak with Mr. Jay twice, and both times he was very cordial and generous with his time. He disappointed fans by not signing cards, or his book on Cards as Weapons, but on the rare occasions when he was made available, he was very engaging. The "keepsake" is eminently forgettable. However, I did not come to see Ricky Jay, I came to hear discussions about the subject matter advertised, by some well-known performers. Such discussions simply did not happen.
There were, in general, two groups of people. Ricky Jay fans, and magicians. The latter groups was much smaller, maybe 10%. The fans seemed generally happy - the magicians generally unhappy/upset.
The program quite simply was not as advertised. From the advertisement for the Congress.
“The evening might be considered a course in magic appreciation”
- Attendants were prohibited from doing magic for other registrants. Most of the lectures were not about magic, and did not even touch on magic. It was certainly NOT a course in magic appreciation, as advertised.
“A weekend in which you will hang out with and learn from a group of top-notch professionals who will entertain you and lead you to a deeper understanding of the oldest and most universal of performing arts”
- Disscussions rarely had anything to do with magic, and, with rare exception, did not even reference magic. There was no hanging out, until Sunday evening. No "deeper understanding" was gained, or even attempted.
“You will examine and better understand the differences between good, bad, and great magic through examples and discussions.”
- Such discussions never occurred. There was two videos, one of Ricky Jay as a child, and one of Jonathan Levitt, where performances were ridiculed, but other than that, not such discussions of good, bad, or great magic ever took place.
“Over the weekend, you will gain a better understanding of practice.”
- This discussion did not occur. In fact, the speaker who touched on such a topic, specifically stated – in a response to questions - that he did not know anything about practice research. No speaker addressed their practice routines, and none discussed practice as applies to magic.
“Explore common roots of deception between the magician and the con man.”
- This discussion did not happen. There was a video clip from a TV series that has not been released, but no discussion.
“Learn about magic and its relationship to light, theater, film, and psychology.”
- Did not happen. Lighting legend Jules Fisher talked about lighting, but only in a historical sense, as relates to magic. Relationship to film was only presented in terms of “We did this film.” Other topics were not talked about.
As for the schedule –
Saturday 10:30 lecture did not happen (different topic)
Saturday 9:00 – 11 – lecture did not occur. Time was not filled.
Sunday 2:30 – lecture did not happen (different topic)
The AV setup was poorly run, and often didn't work. Sessions started late, and attendees were left standing in a parking lot for up to 15 minutes. Sessions sometimes did not run as long as scheduled.
Quite simply, the Congress was not as advertised. As someone who spent a lot of money based on what turned out to be false advertisement, I am both extremely disappointed and quite upset.
FWIW, I think that the comments pertaining to Ricky Jay himself are off base. The problems with the "Congress of Wonders" were not personal - they were with the Congress itself. I had the chance to speak with Mr. Jay twice, and both times he was very cordial and generous with his time. He disappointed fans by not signing cards, or his book on Cards as Weapons, but on the rare occasions when he was made available, he was very engaging. The "keepsake" is eminently forgettable. However, I did not come to see Ricky Jay, I came to hear discussions about the subject matter advertised, by some well-known performers. Such discussions simply did not happen.
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
The reviews keep getting worse...
It's clear to me that I made the right choice in hesitating to attend as everything described (picture or no picture, accessible Jay or not) would have been an overall disappointment and an expensive mistake.
I'm surprised that Jay extended a video invitation to Genii readers a while back as it appears they would have been the most likely to be disappointed.
It's clear to me that I made the right choice in hesitating to attend as everything described (picture or no picture, accessible Jay or not) would have been an overall disappointment and an expensive mistake.
I'm surprised that Jay extended a video invitation to Genii readers a while back as it appears they would have been the most likely to be disappointed.
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Ted M
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Magic appreciation...
How can someone attend a lecture by Jules Fisher and not come away with any sense of lighting's contribution to an audience's theatrical experience?
Given that a magic performance is a theatrical experience, how would that not expand and/or enhance one's ability to appreciate magical performance?
Were magicians expecting a narrow-minded session called "How To Watch The Cups And Balls?"
How can someone attend a lecture by Jules Fisher and not come away with any sense of lighting's contribution to an audience's theatrical experience?
Given that a magic performance is a theatrical experience, how would that not expand and/or enhance one's ability to appreciate magical performance?
Were magicians expecting a narrow-minded session called "How To Watch The Cups And Balls?"
Last edited by Ted M on July 22nd, 2014, 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Ricky did not "extend" the video invitation to Genii readers. It was posted on the Congress of Wonders website. I copied it and embedded it in the digital edition of Genii. I was contacted last year by the publicists and organizers (42West and dreamcatcher events). I was supposed to be comped to the event as "press," which is why all Genii readers received an email with a discount offer late last year, and I also ran material on it in Genii Speaks. I felt perfectly fine publicizing the event because I know Jay, Weber, and Jules Fisher and thought it sounded promising despite the price.
I was called by Ricky the week before the event and told I was not attending--he seemed surprised when I told him that I was comped as "press." So, anything you saw in Genii was press-related in exchange for my supposed press-comp. Needless to say, neither the organizers at dreamcatcher events nor the publicists at 42West have responded to my emails requesting payment for the publicity I generated for them since I was told by the star that I was not attending.
It's interesting that there appear to be conflicting anecdotes about whether Ricky would sign books or not (other than a definite "no" to Cards as Weapons), and his accessibility during the convention.
It also seems to me that there was a disconnect between the event the promoters thought they were going to have (and thus sold to magicians) and the event Ricky was actually presenting. If you attended and felt you did not get your money's worth, I'd suggest you contact the organizers at dreamcatcher events and ask for a refund since, as has been well described in a preceding post, the publicity for the event did not match what was presented.
I was called by Ricky the week before the event and told I was not attending--he seemed surprised when I told him that I was comped as "press." So, anything you saw in Genii was press-related in exchange for my supposed press-comp. Needless to say, neither the organizers at dreamcatcher events nor the publicists at 42West have responded to my emails requesting payment for the publicity I generated for them since I was told by the star that I was not attending.
It's interesting that there appear to be conflicting anecdotes about whether Ricky would sign books or not (other than a definite "no" to Cards as Weapons), and his accessibility during the convention.
It also seems to me that there was a disconnect between the event the promoters thought they were going to have (and thus sold to magicians) and the event Ricky was actually presenting. If you attended and felt you did not get your money's worth, I'd suggest you contact the organizers at dreamcatcher events and ask for a refund since, as has been well described in a preceding post, the publicity for the event did not match what was presented.
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Why would Jay "disinvite" you Richard?
It makes it all seem as if he understood quite clearly in advance that there would be very little to do with magic taking place at this event, and that the event as a whole would be easily slammed in any magic focused critique (which presumably you would focus on as a member of the "magic press").
Thus "disinvite" the conjuring focused critic?
When the speakers list first came out, and despite the fact that I myself have traveled across the country twice to hear Jules Fisher speak about theatrical lighting (albeit at non-conjuring events), it was painfully obvious to me upon reading said list a couple of months ago that it would be all but impossible to put anything but the most peripheral of conjuring spins on this Congress of Wonders event.
It makes it all seem as if he understood quite clearly in advance that there would be very little to do with magic taking place at this event, and that the event as a whole would be easily slammed in any magic focused critique (which presumably you would focus on as a member of the "magic press").
Thus "disinvite" the conjuring focused critic?
When the speakers list first came out, and despite the fact that I myself have traveled across the country twice to hear Jules Fisher speak about theatrical lighting (albeit at non-conjuring events), it was painfully obvious to me upon reading said list a couple of months ago that it would be all but impossible to put anything but the most peripheral of conjuring spins on this Congress of Wonders event.
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Re: The Jules Fisher lecture.
Jules Fisher is a wonderful man, a legend in stage lighting. His lecture was fascinating in its own right. He even touched on the amount of light that would have been available to magicians at different periods in history. He did mention that he lit the floor in RJ's stage show (52 Assistants) to provide some texture, which was somewhat interesting, I guess.
However, he did not get into the technical details of lighting, nor did he specifically address how lighting might be applied to magic. Even an example or two would have been nice, from a "magic appreciation" point of view (as was advertised).
A couple of the lectures were interesting, in the same way that TED talks on various disparate subjects are interesting. But that's not how the program was advertised. Exactly no one there wanted to learn how to do "cups and balls" - most of the magicians in attendance were fairly accomplished - but all that I spoke with who were disappointed wanted to learn and discuss what makes magic magical, and from one of the giants in the field. That NEVER happened.
Jules Fisher is a wonderful man, a legend in stage lighting. His lecture was fascinating in its own right. He even touched on the amount of light that would have been available to magicians at different periods in history. He did mention that he lit the floor in RJ's stage show (52 Assistants) to provide some texture, which was somewhat interesting, I guess.
However, he did not get into the technical details of lighting, nor did he specifically address how lighting might be applied to magic. Even an example or two would have been nice, from a "magic appreciation" point of view (as was advertised).
A couple of the lectures were interesting, in the same way that TED talks on various disparate subjects are interesting. But that's not how the program was advertised. Exactly no one there wanted to learn how to do "cups and balls" - most of the magicians in attendance were fairly accomplished - but all that I spoke with who were disappointed wanted to learn and discuss what makes magic magical, and from one of the giants in the field. That NEVER happened.
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
A couple of questions / comments from me:
Given the comments above, what was the actual purpose of this event and who was the target audience?
Why would Mr Jay refuse it sign one of his own books - I'm guessing there is some backstory here but, on the face of it, it seems a rather odd stance to take by an author.
Mr Jay's credentials as an accomplished sleight of hand artist are undoubted however it is my view that he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag.
A case of a magician (badly) playing the part of an actor if you will...with perhaps an inflated view of his abilities in this area.
Andrew
Given the comments above, what was the actual purpose of this event and who was the target audience?
Why would Mr Jay refuse it sign one of his own books - I'm guessing there is some backstory here but, on the face of it, it seems a rather odd stance to take by an author.
Mr Jay's credentials as an accomplished sleight of hand artist are undoubted however it is my view that he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag.
A case of a magician (badly) playing the part of an actor if you will...with perhaps an inflated view of his abilities in this area.
Andrew
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Bill Mullins
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Mr Jay's credentials as an accomplished sleight of hand artist are undoubted however it is my view that he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag.
I don't think RJ is in the Nicholson/Pacino/Deniro class as an actor, but he's okay in the right role. I watched the set of Deadwood earlier this year, and he was good in that. And I think he fit the parts well in Spanish Prisoner and Heist.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Ricky is a personality rather than an actor per se, however he has earned his credentials as a film actor even if the parts are not top-lined. Having a movie camera a foot from your face (where it is for extreme close-ups) requires a great deal of discipline and technique merely to speak your lines in a natural fashion. This he does expertly. If someone has not learned the technique of performing in front of the camera you can see it immediately in their eyes. You don't "act" in front of the camera: you let it in through your eyes.
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
"I don't think RJ is in the Nicholson/Pacino/Deniro class as an actor, but he's okay in the right role."
Now there are four names you will never see again in the same sentence.
Now there are four names you will never see again in the same sentence.
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Jason England
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
"In the days before the event, he had the whole world wondering if he would show up. Plane after plane waited on the runway, while he napped, or took walks, and ate sandwiches. Henry Kissinger called and asked him to go for his country's honor. Soon after arriving, he offended the Icelanders by calling their country inadequate because they had no bowling alleys. He complained about the TV cameras, about the lighting, about the table and chairs, and the contrast of the squares on the board. His hotel room, he said, had too nice of a view. None of this had anything to do with chess of course. Or maybe it did."
Last edited by Jason England on July 24th, 2014, 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
And what does Bobby Fisher have to do with any of this?
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Brad Henderson
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
if you have to ask, you'll never know.
Brad Henderson magician in Austin Texas
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Richard Kaufman
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Bill Mullins
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
"Searching for Bobby Fischer" is a really good movie.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Richard Kaufman wrote:Oh--now I get it. hehehe
I was going to suggest the Tyson pre-show weigh in music from that fight in 1988 - but whatever makes the event - something short of a haymarket bottle trick.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
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erdnasephile
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Bill Mullins wrote:"Searching for Bobby Fischer" is a really good movie.
"Don't move until you see it..."
(SPOILER ALERT: Don't watch the video unless you've seen the movie--I just posted it here as a treat for those who have seen and loved the film)
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Ruben Padilla
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
One of my all time favorite movies. In fact, top five!
If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and watch it today!
If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and watch it today!
Visit www.MagiciansOnly.com for exclusive book, trick, DVD, & convention reviews!
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erdnasephile
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
For those that haven't seen the movie, here's the trailer:
(Based on a true story. Great script. Lots of terrific actors in this film.)
(Based on a true story. Great script. Lots of terrific actors in this film.)
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brianarudolph
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
To get this thread back more directly on the subject of the Congress of Wonders, following the event I submitted a request asking for a refund of the registration-only cost as, although it did have an interesting moment here and there, I absolutely concur that it in no way lived up to the expectations that were set by the advertising on their own website, the (unfortunately and ultimately to-date) cost-free advertising it received in Genii, and the advertising it received through Ricky Jay's promos on several of his national radio and television appearances. I also thought that asking for a refund of a registration-only pass was more than fair to all parties concerned.
Today I received a very short reply to my request via email stating that the event organizers are "unable to offer a refund." Well, of course they are able to offer a refund; they just refuse to.
This is a major shame too because now that this horrid precedent has been set, anyone in the future wishing to offer a more in-depth, intellectual take on magic and the related arts and sciences in an intimate format featuring a few high-caliber speakers is going to face an uphill battle to convince folks that they are not staging another "Congress of Wonders."
That said, the sooner that an event which actually does deliver an experience as this one portended to, the better off magic will be in the future.
Today I received a very short reply to my request via email stating that the event organizers are "unable to offer a refund." Well, of course they are able to offer a refund; they just refuse to.
This is a major shame too because now that this horrid precedent has been set, anyone in the future wishing to offer a more in-depth, intellectual take on magic and the related arts and sciences in an intimate format featuring a few high-caliber speakers is going to face an uphill battle to convince folks that they are not staging another "Congress of Wonders."
That said, the sooner that an event which actually does deliver an experience as this one portended to, the better off magic will be in the future.
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
If you paid with a credit card, just call your card company and ask them to issue a charge back. It's surprisingly easy. And they always choose your side.
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brianarudolph
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
If it only was that easy, Mr. G. I tried that before my post.
I called my bank, but because I used their "payment plan" and authorized payments as they were billed in December, February and April, the bank is telling me that there is little that they can do besides open a fraud case - something that is very hard to prove in this case since I authorized multiple individual payments that were months apart. It apparently also doesn't help that I used a debit card, despite the fact that each of these was processed as a credit transaction.
Still, one would think there has to be some recourse here. I'm going to wait a day and call the bank again to see if I can get a different rep to help me.
I called my bank, but because I used their "payment plan" and authorized payments as they were billed in December, February and April, the bank is telling me that there is little that they can do besides open a fraud case - something that is very hard to prove in this case since I authorized multiple individual payments that were months apart. It apparently also doesn't help that I used a debit card, despite the fact that each of these was processed as a credit transaction.
Still, one would think there has to be some recourse here. I'm going to wait a day and call the bank again to see if I can get a different rep to help me.
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Joe Mckay
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
On a side note - I really hope the push towards different types of magic conventions continues.
I have being obsessed with magic for the past 18 years. But the usual magic convention doesn't appeal to me. A long competition, a dealer show, a dealer hall and a few lectures on top just doesn't seem that interesting.
The dealer halls used to be really exciting - but with the internet, it is very easy to spend a few minutes online choosing from thousands of magic items.
With the lectures - it is easy enough to buy DVDs and downloads of nearly ever magician in the world.
With that in mind - I hope conventions like the EMC (and a few others) continue to move forward in this direction.
The only conventions that interest me are ones that pull together names that rarely give lectures or who have not released many DVDs/books.
The USP for conventions should be about the vision the curators and bookers of the convention can bring to it. And as such - the emphasis should be on unique events in magic plus interesting people from outside of magic who offer an interesting perspective for magicians.
Even with the guys who have done a lot of lectures or DVDs - I still feel that a well structured interview with these people can help offer something different and unique compared to the usual magic convention.
And in order to help fund these events - and allow more people to visit them - I hope their is a continual drive to open them up to online viewers as well.
The traditional magic convention is fine for those people who have being in magic for a short while. But after a decade or two - you want something different. And even then - for those people who have being in magic a short while - I feel the internet is offering them a lot of the features that could once only be found at magic convention.
I have being obsessed with magic for the past 18 years. But the usual magic convention doesn't appeal to me. A long competition, a dealer show, a dealer hall and a few lectures on top just doesn't seem that interesting.
The dealer halls used to be really exciting - but with the internet, it is very easy to spend a few minutes online choosing from thousands of magic items.
With the lectures - it is easy enough to buy DVDs and downloads of nearly ever magician in the world.
With that in mind - I hope conventions like the EMC (and a few others) continue to move forward in this direction.
The only conventions that interest me are ones that pull together names that rarely give lectures or who have not released many DVDs/books.
The USP for conventions should be about the vision the curators and bookers of the convention can bring to it. And as such - the emphasis should be on unique events in magic plus interesting people from outside of magic who offer an interesting perspective for magicians.
Even with the guys who have done a lot of lectures or DVDs - I still feel that a well structured interview with these people can help offer something different and unique compared to the usual magic convention.
And in order to help fund these events - and allow more people to visit them - I hope their is a continual drive to open them up to online viewers as well.
The traditional magic convention is fine for those people who have being in magic for a short while. But after a decade or two - you want something different. And even then - for those people who have being in magic a short while - I feel the internet is offering them a lot of the features that could once only be found at magic convention.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Did you come to the Genii Bash?
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine
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Ted M
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Seriously, you're trying to get your money back?
Sadly, the narrow-mindedness of magicians never fails to astound.
And disappoint.
It appears as though some attendees of limited perspective genuinely were expecting the enhancement of their ability to appreciate magic to take the form of lectures on How to Watch The Cups and Balls.
Sigh.
There's WAY more to artistic magical performance than the stinking tricks!
Wake up!
Sadly, the narrow-mindedness of magicians never fails to astound.
And disappoint.
It appears as though some attendees of limited perspective genuinely were expecting the enhancement of their ability to appreciate magic to take the form of lectures on How to Watch The Cups and Balls.
Sigh.
There's WAY more to artistic magical performance than the stinking tricks!
Wake up!
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Joe Mckay
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
The GENII bash is a good example of something different.
Form what I hear.
I will certainly go next time I have a chance to go to America. Getting the time off work is a problem for me.
And the money.
Form what I hear.
I will certainly go next time I have a chance to go to America. Getting the time off work is a problem for me.
And the money.
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brianarudolph
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Seriously, I am trying to get my money back - as should everyone who paid good money and was severely disappointed by this event.
Sadly, the narrow-mindedness of some non-attendee magicians posters to this thread never fails to astound.
And disappoint.
It appears as though some non-attendee posters with no perspective genuinely believe that the magicians who did attend were expecting the enhancement of their ability to appreciate magic to take the form of lectures on How to Watch The Cups and Balls.
Sigh.
There's WAY more to artistic magical performance than the stinking tricks! Agreed. And it's a real shame that none of that was delivered as the advertising for the Congress of Wonders promised.
Really wake up!
Sadly, the narrow-mindedness of some non-attendee magicians posters to this thread never fails to astound.
And disappoint.
It appears as though some non-attendee posters with no perspective genuinely believe that the magicians who did attend were expecting the enhancement of their ability to appreciate magic to take the form of lectures on How to Watch The Cups and Balls.
Sigh.
There's WAY more to artistic magical performance than the stinking tricks! Agreed. And it's a real shame that none of that was delivered as the advertising for the Congress of Wonders promised.
Really wake up!
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Ted M
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Further narrowness -- you don't even write your own material!
You should probably steer clear of any event that claims scriptwriting might be in any way related to magic.
You should probably steer clear of any event that claims scriptwriting might be in any way related to magic.
Last edited by Ted M on July 29th, 2014, 9:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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brianarudolph
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Double sigh.
Some people just don't get the difference between advertising a discussion on things that are related to magic but then not actually delivering on those discussions as advertised.
Those kind of folks should steer clear of things where reading comprehension is required.
Some people just don't get the difference between advertising a discussion on things that are related to magic but then not actually delivering on those discussions as advertised.
Those kind of folks should steer clear of things where reading comprehension is required.
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Dustin Stinett
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
I am not going to get involved in neither the Ricky Jay nor the conference aspects of the conversation; I was not there. (But I do know Ricky, and some of what has been said is fair while some is not—so that’s all I have to say about that; to borrow a phrase).
I am curious, however, about something that just came up about magic conventions in general.
I have experience in only three types of conventions:
•Magic
•Syndicated Data conferences (those run by ACNielsen—never made it to IRI’s)
•CPG Manufacturer shows (where buyers come to make deals on new products)
The latter is like a GIANT dealers’ room (usually held in an arena floor) and that’s all that happens for two or three days. The manufacturers, their brokers and/or distributors go hog wild on the displays. There are themes, costumes, enormous displays, music, and entertainers (yes, sometimes even magicians). For a while there was someone doing almost this sort of thing with magic dealers traveling around the country. I have no idea what happened with that. Seemed like a decent idea to me, but I don’t recall it making it to Southern California.
The most expensive magic convention (registration) I have ever attended cost $350.
That wouldn’t get you one day at an ACNielsen shindig.
Bare bones, no breakout meetings, registration starts at about two grand for these. Want to learn something other than what the two or three daily speakers are talking about (a focused “lecture”)? That will cost you extra for each one you want. And you had better know what you want because there are six or so per day, they are all held at the same time, and they are rarely repeated (the ones that are almost always turn into a sales pitch, so you know to avoid those).
Can you imagine a magic convention being run like that?
The New York Magic Symposium tried the focused breakout sessions—it is how I met one Richard Kaufman for the first time back in the early 1980s.
Has any convention done it since? Or are there too many people who end up whining about “not being able to see ‘everything’”?
Or are there just too many magicians who whine?
Just curious.
I am curious, however, about something that just came up about magic conventions in general.
I have experience in only three types of conventions:
•Magic
•Syndicated Data conferences (those run by ACNielsen—never made it to IRI’s)
•CPG Manufacturer shows (where buyers come to make deals on new products)
The latter is like a GIANT dealers’ room (usually held in an arena floor) and that’s all that happens for two or three days. The manufacturers, their brokers and/or distributors go hog wild on the displays. There are themes, costumes, enormous displays, music, and entertainers (yes, sometimes even magicians). For a while there was someone doing almost this sort of thing with magic dealers traveling around the country. I have no idea what happened with that. Seemed like a decent idea to me, but I don’t recall it making it to Southern California.
The most expensive magic convention (registration) I have ever attended cost $350.
That wouldn’t get you one day at an ACNielsen shindig.
Bare bones, no breakout meetings, registration starts at about two grand for these. Want to learn something other than what the two or three daily speakers are talking about (a focused “lecture”)? That will cost you extra for each one you want. And you had better know what you want because there are six or so per day, they are all held at the same time, and they are rarely repeated (the ones that are almost always turn into a sales pitch, so you know to avoid those).
Can you imagine a magic convention being run like that?
The New York Magic Symposium tried the focused breakout sessions—it is how I met one Richard Kaufman for the first time back in the early 1980s.
Has any convention done it since? Or are there too many people who end up whining about “not being able to see ‘everything’”?
Or are there just too many magicians who whine?
Just curious.
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Bill Mullins
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Joe Mckay wrote: Even with the guys who have done a lot of lectures or DVDs - I still feel that a well structured interview with these people can help offer something different and unique compared to the usual magic convention.
Like when David Blaine and Paul Harris talked about dropping acid at the EMC.
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Richard Kaufman
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
I whine about not being able to see everything: I don't like it when you have to chose one event over another.
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I.M. Magician
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Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
I don't understand why anyone should have to choose. When you create a convention, it should be scheduled without any overlap. In fact, there should be a gap between things so you have the time to get from one event to another, hit the can, and find a seat. It's not a race!
When you attend a convention, you should be entitled to be at any and all activities you choose. Perhaps the dealer's room is a choice at times but that's it.
Anyone not agree?
When you attend a convention, you should be entitled to be at any and all activities you choose. Perhaps the dealer's room is a choice at times but that's it.
Anyone not agree?
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Joe Mckay
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- Location: Durham, England
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
It is very rare that you have a good interviewer in magic.
The recent online interview with Persi Diaconis was one of the few examples of a good interview.
The recent online interview with Persi Diaconis was one of the few examples of a good interview.
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erdnasephile
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- Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
I.M. Magician wrote:I don't understand why anyone should have to choose. When you create a convention, it should be scheduled without any overlap. In fact, there should be a gap between things so you have the time to get from one event to another, hit the can, and find a seat. It's not a race!
When you attend a convention, you should be entitled to be at any and all activities you choose. Perhaps the dealer's room is a choice at times but that's it.
Anyone not agree?
I'll bite.
At IBM/SAM, there were times when I didn't have as much interest in a particular topic being lectured about. Since there were no alternative lectures/events scheduled concurrently, that left a big bit of dead time in the schedule for me. The disappointment is certainly understandable when 2 desired events conflict, but my recent experience is the downside of the opposite scheduling strategy.
FWIW, my experience with professional conferences is exactly how Dustin has described it. Having only a single lecture/event scheduled (except in the event of banquets or keynote addresses) is really not SOP for many conventions outside of magic that I have attended.
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I.M. Magician
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- Favorite Magician: All of the very best!
- Location: Magicville
Re: Ricky Jay's Congress of Wonders
Then, if lectures, etc. are run concurrently, maybe the subject areas should be different enough that they would not typically be of interest to the same person.
For example, lectures on both coin magic and children's magic. I know that one could be interested in both but less likely to be a difficult choice than if it was coin magic and card magic.
Nothing is perfect but with some thought, there is a better chance of making the majority of attendees happy. No?
For example, lectures on both coin magic and children's magic. I know that one could be interested in both but less likely to be a difficult choice than if it was coin magic and card magic.
Nothing is perfect but with some thought, there is a better chance of making the majority of attendees happy. No?