Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

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Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 25th, 2014, 6:51 pm

A heads-up!
Ricky Jay will appear on the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon on March 31, discussing his documentary Deceptive Practice (which you can order from the Genii office at 50% off retail with a subscription or extension).
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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby erdnasephile » March 25th, 2014, 7:08 pm

Awesome! I guess we'll see how "magician-friendly" the Fallon Tonight Show will be. (Hopefully, more so than Leno's version)

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Chas Nigh » March 25th, 2014, 9:15 pm

Or....Stream it on Netflix.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Dustin Stinett » March 26th, 2014, 3:40 am

Netflix doesn't have all the extras found on the DVD, and they are excellent.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby merenkov2 » March 26th, 2014, 7:17 pm

Whenever I'd see a magician as a guest of either Letterman or Leno, it would remind me of just how much I missed Johnny Carson. I have a feeling Jimmy Fallon is going to be more like Carson, though, just gracious and fun.

Regarding the extras on the Deceptive Practices DVD, my favorite was the automaton sequence from 'Ricky Jay and his 52 Assistants', which was not included in the HBO special.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 27th, 2014, 1:07 am

There will be additional "extras" not included on the DVD shown at the upcoming Ricky Jay Carnival of Wonders, where there'll be a Q&A with Ricky and directors.
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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Dustin Stinett » March 27th, 2014, 1:51 am

And for those of you lucky enough to attend, here's a little tip for that Q&A: Prepare some questions to ask the filmmakers and not just Ricky. Trust me, that will please him.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » April 1st, 2014, 2:24 am

The poker presentation that Ricky Jay performed on the Tonight Show is one that has been curiously overlooked. It was masterfully underplayed and its simplicity and directness was underscored, adding to its ultimate impact. Ricky Jay added a couple of nice touches, as well. The trick is based on “No-Jonah Poker,” a method I developed after learning Peter Winkler’s application of the mathematical principle he introduced in his book, Mathematical Puzzles: A Connoisseur’s Collection (2003). Winkler used coins, not cards. Later, I published “(Losing) End Poker," another application of the Gardner (?) principle explained in “No-Jonah Poker." This version applied Michael Weber’s handling of making the spectator think (remember?) that he ostensibly makes the first choice and begins the game. All these tricks BTW are explained, along with many other versions, in my booklet titled JONAH PLOYS. If this sort of thing interests you, check with me and check around. These aspects and much, much more will be thoroughly covered by Bob Farmer in his upcoming magnum opus. Meanwhile, kudos to Mr. Jay for showcasing a gem.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Bob Farmer » April 1st, 2014, 10:12 am

Ricky Jay was on the Tonight Show May 31, 2014, performing a version of the Ten Card Deal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1l2ip ... t-show_fun

As Jon notes, if you want to know how he did it, it's in Chapter 2.2 of The Bammo Ten Card Deal Dossier, soon to be published.

You can also do this with any ten cards the spectator deals randomly face down.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby erdnasephile » April 1st, 2014, 11:56 am

Here's the official link to the Ricky Jay/Jimmy Fallon poker segment (without the nasty DailyMotion interrupting ads ;) )

http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/segments/3621
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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby erdnasephile » April 1st, 2014, 11:59 am

Here's a link to the classic "A Correctly Structured Drama" featuring Mr. Jay performing the 10 Card Poker Deal under different circumstances.



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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Ross Welford » April 1st, 2014, 4:48 pm

Bob Farmer wrote:Ricky Jay was on the Tonight Show May 31, 2014, performing a version of the Ten Card Deal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1l2ip ... t-show_fun

As Jon notes, if you want to know how he did it, it's in Chapter 2.2 of The Bammo Ten Card Deal Dossier, soon to be published.

You can also do this with any ten cards the spectator deals randomly face down.



(Ahem) ANY ten cards? Surely not, m'lud...

What's curious about Ricky Jay's presentation, is that he has the opportunity, should he wish to, of making the sucker's cards much better, but he doesn't. That is, the cards he shows to the sucker could be kings or aces, allowing the sucker to think he's getting a good hand. Instead he shows relatively lowly cards. I wonder why?

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby leojerome » April 1st, 2014, 7:09 pm

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 2nd, 2014, 2:39 am

Ross Welford wrote:What's curious about Ricky Jay's presentation, is that he has the opportunity, should he wish to, of making the sucker's cards much better, but he doesn't. That is, the cards he shows to the sucker could be kings or aces, allowing the sucker to think he's getting a good hand. Instead he shows relatively lowly cards. I wonder why?


Because Ricky Jay is a routining savant.

In this one phase routine, to have the spectator's hand consist of four aces would not be so good.

Everything seems completely random, and that sense of randomness is maintained up until Jay reveals his hand to be a royal flush.

If the spectator were to turn over four aces it would be startling, at a point were it is to soon for anything startling.

It would not only tip the ending, but would render it somewhat anticlimactic.

A beautiful thing about giving the spectator such a crappy hand as a pair of eights, is that you really don't see the ending that is coming. It affords Jay the nice line "I don't even have a pair".

When he then turns over a royal flush it is both startling and humorous.

At least to me, something about the overkill of a royal flush to beat Fallon's little pair was very funny.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Ross Welford » April 2nd, 2014, 8:20 am

"Routining savant"! Funny - and true.

I certainly wouldn't have the spectator/sucker end up with a strong hand. As you say, that would spoil it; on the other hand I'm not sure I could resist having at least a king in there for the times when you show the spec. their choice.

Probably, that's why I'm useless compared with Ricky Jay.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Bob Farmer » April 2nd, 2014, 9:42 am

Clarification: Yes, you can BEAT the spectator with this procedure using ten random cards he deals to the table in a row face down (the cards, not the spectator). It will not be a Royal Flush, but it will be the better hand.

It's in the book.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby merenkov2 » April 2nd, 2014, 12:01 pm

Jimmy Fallon played the perfect foil during the routine - he let Ricky do his job and it was entertaining and funny. If Ricky tried this with David Letterman, Dave would spend the entire time asking him why he couldn't take one of the center cards.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby JFox » April 2nd, 2014, 3:46 pm

Re: the Ricky Jay "A Correctly Structured Drama" video...

that has to be the funniest videos I've seen in a long, long time!

Excuse my ignorance, but may I assume that the entire video was a scripted put-on?
What is the back-story on it?
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Re: Ricky's "Ten Card Poker Deal" routine...It is NOT to be confused with the "Ten Card Deal" from Phoenix #168 and #170 (1949).

In this case, the required cards are 3 sets of three-of-a-kind, plus one "Jonah" odd card.

It later had an authorized release by U.F. Grant as the "Jumbo Poker Trick".

Kreskin does this version on one of the DVDs from his multi-disc TV series box set.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 2nd, 2014, 6:22 pm

That "video" is from a segment on a UK TV documentary on Ricky that came out back in 1996: "Hustlers, Hoaxters, Pranksters, Jokesters and Ricky Jay."

The people in the video were various members and executives of the production, but they were not "in" on any script. Their reactions are quite real.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Don Hendrix » April 3rd, 2014, 1:27 pm

A brilliant new version of the 10 card poker deal, for those lucky enough to be able to obtain a copy, is Michael Weber's "Ha, No Jonah".

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Jim Maloney » April 3rd, 2014, 5:00 pm

merenkov2 wrote:Jimmy Fallon played the perfect foil during the routine - he let Ricky do his job and it was entertaining and funny. If Ricky tried this with David Letterman, Dave would spend the entire time asking him why he couldn't take one of the center cards.


...which is a perfectly valid question that I'm sure Ricky could easily handle.
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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby erdnasephile » April 3rd, 2014, 6:01 pm

merenkov2 wrote:Jimmy Fallon played the perfect foil during the routine - he let Ricky do his job and it was entertaining and funny. If Ricky tried this with David Letterman, Dave would spend the entire time asking him why he couldn't take one of the center cards.


1+

Fallon made Ricky look good without drawing undue attention to himself. Johnny was the master at this, but Fallon did a nice job. (He gives the impression he's a nice guy, which I think helps when you are the Tonight Show host).

As a tangential FYI: Letterman just announced today he's retiring. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... news-says/

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby erdnasephile » April 3rd, 2014, 6:04 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:That "video" is from a segment on a UK TV documentary on Ricky that came out back in 1996: "Hustlers, Hoaxters, Pranksters, Jokesters and Ricky Jay."...




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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » April 4th, 2014, 12:04 pm

Ever since Ricky Jay performed the presentation he did on the Tonight Show I’ve been bombarded with queries about where this trick was published, where it may be available, and so on. If this info still interests you, the handling-method is available from me or Lybrary.com. Just drop me a note at Joncards@aol.com and I’ll send it to you. The trick (“No-Jonah Poker”) itself dates back to 2009 and was the result of learning Peter Winkler’s application of the mathematical principle he introduced in his book, Mathematical Puzzles: A Connoisseur’s Collection (2003). Winkler used coins. “(Losing) End Poker” is another application of the principle explained in “No-Jonah Poker” and applies Michael Weber’s handling of making the spectator think (remember?) that he ostensibly makes the first choice and begins the game. Both versions are explained, along with many other versions, in a 50-page booklet titled JONAH PLOYS. It is a PDF and sells for $15. If you are patient, it (and so much more) will be included in Bob Farmer’s gigantic, stupendous magnum opus devoted to the Ten-Card Poker Deal. Meanwhile, I appreciate the interest. In fact, I’m pleasantly surprised. Thanks.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Bob Farmer » April 4th, 2014, 1:12 pm

It's coming soon, I promise! Just finishing the illustrations.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Michael Close » April 4th, 2014, 1:36 pm

Curiously, all the illustrations depict a man being swallowed by a whale.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby merenkov2 » April 4th, 2014, 1:51 pm

I’ve become obsessed with the 10-card poker deal, and I put the blame squarely on Bob Farmer. I recently ran across his 5-part series on the topic in the January-May 1994 issues of Magic Magazine (the April issue included a list of over 60 references to the trick if you really want to go down the rabbit hole). So from that beginning, I proceeded to versions by Harry Lorayne, Darwin Ortiz, Nick Trost, and now Jon Racherbaumer’s devious ‘Jonah Ploys’. The iterations are endless and fascinating. But I have to wonder, do laymen really enjoy this plot? Or is it really more of a magicians’ thing?
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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » April 4th, 2014, 1:57 pm

Do lay persons like the Ten-Card Poker Deal?

It depends on how much of their skin is in the game.
I saw Dick Ryan draw a huge crowd at a trade show by offering (from his client) an expensive car (which was next to him in the booth) if they won the POKER GAME they were going to play. What made it so inviting is that the SPECTATOR (PLAYER) seemed to have a distinct advantage...The crowd really got into the contest. Everytime Dick performed this, the crowd was huge. The reaction was stirring.

When Harry Anderson does it, he usually lets the spectator WIN!

Seeing these versions really sold me on the plot.

Onward,

JR

P.S. This plot was first revived by Harry Lorayne. He helped spread the energy. Oddly enough, I first learned it in Nemoto's TOKYO TRICKERY.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Carlo Morpurgo » April 4th, 2014, 2:46 pm

Jon Racherbaumer wrote:Ever since Ricky Jay performed the presentation he did on the Tonight Show I’ve been bombarded with queries about where this trick was published, where it may be available, and so on. If this info still interests you, the handling-method is available from me or Lybrary.com. Just drop me a note at Joncards@aol.com and I’ll send it to you. The trick (“No-Jonah Poker”) itself dates back to 2009 and was the result of learning Peter Winkler’s application of the mathematical principle he introduced in his book, Mathematical Puzzles: A Connoisseur’s Collection (2003). Winkler used coins. “(Losing) End Poker” is another application of the principle explained in “No-Jonah Poker” and applies Michael Weber’s handling of making the spectator think (remember?) that he ostensibly makes the first choice and begins the game. Both versions are explained, along with many other versions, in a 50-page booklet titled JONAH PLOYS. It is a PDF and sells for $15. If you are patient, it (and so much more) will be included in Bob Farmer’s gigantic, stupendous magnum opus devoted to the Ten-Card Poker Deal. Meanwhile, I appreciate the interest. In fact, I’m pleasantly surprised. Thanks.


alternatively, one can take a look at page 1 of the above mentioned book by Winkler (preview freely available on Amazon). it's a very simple idea.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 4th, 2014, 3:33 pm

Jon Racherbaumer wrote:Ever since Ricky Jay performed the presentation he did on the Tonight Show I’ve been bombarded with queries about where this trick was published, where it may be available, and so on. ...

I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but before self-control gets the better of me, I'm going to say it: I wish people would do a little more thinking for themselves and NOT just do what Ricky Jay (or anyone else) did/does on television.

Dustin

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Carlo Morpurgo » April 4th, 2014, 3:59 pm

I agree with Dustin, but only regarding the mathematical principle. I would recommend to try solving the original coin problem in the above mentioned book, (without looking at the solution), in case you have not yet figured out the elementary principle.
But I think it's a very good idea to also think about what Jay does and say in his TV presentation, following the key points mentioned by Jon...it's all out there in the open..

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » April 4th, 2014, 4:42 pm

I also agree with Dustin. Over the years, I always considered my writings to be stimuli or trigger points or flash points or prods...so that readers could take over and let their imaginations go wild. I wanted to coax readers to think and open themselves up for discovery.

My next audio in Genii puts this elementary principle into a different "box" and permits one to predict the outcome, even when the spectator can make the initial choice. This of course will not and should not be the last word.

What still amazes me is that the original Jonah Card idea was published in CARD CONTROL and was largely overlooked or ignored...until Martin Gardner, Marlo, and others saw its possibilities....

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Brad Henderson » April 4th, 2014, 4:54 pm

if one's choices lead an audience to see you more similarly to another magician, that choice is an inartistic one. If one's choices lead an audience to see you more differently from another magician, that choice is an artistic one.

Del Rey once shared that magic by definition should be unique and special. When the audience sees performers doing the same things, one automatically dilutes their magical experience.

not so good for those who make money selling fantasies (and tricks) to magicians. Probably why we don't see that idea discussed so often.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Carlo Morpurgo » April 4th, 2014, 6:19 pm

True, but one cannot learn or create from nothing. By watching and studying the master in action in this clip, and only based on what Jon said, one already has a great deal to learn from. For ex. "I am going to give you a choice of taking from this end or this end, so let's say I take this card..."...ingenious....I would not have payed attention to this detail as far as a way of inducing a feeling of actually starting the game, if Jon hadn't mentioned it... I think these things can be taught and learned, and based on that comes the "creativity". If nothing, learning from others can give us a good perspective on where our mind can lead us.

ps. I know I am biased, but I think that also the math book by Winkler is really good...full of gems, if you like math/logic puzzles. I was not aware of it - thanks Jon for mentioning it.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Brad Henderson » April 4th, 2014, 6:39 pm

there is a difference between that which we learn and how we incorporate those lessons.

I contend my 'rule' still holds true.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Tom Frame » April 4th, 2014, 6:46 pm

Jon Racherbaumer wrote:What still amazes me is that the original Jonah Card idea was published in CARD CONTROL and was largely overlooked or ignored...until Martin Gardner, Marlo, and others saw its possibilities....


One reason why it was overlooked or ignored is because Buckley's description of the handling was incorrect!
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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Bill Mullins » April 4th, 2014, 11:25 pm

Carlo Morpurgo wrote:ps. I know I am biased, but I think that also the math book by Winkler is really good...full of gems, if you like math/logic puzzles. I was not aware of it - thanks Jon for mentioning it.


His other puzzle book, Mathematical Mind-Benders, is also quite good. At the recent Gathering for Gardner he said he has a third book of puzzles in the works.

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Carlo Morpurgo » April 4th, 2014, 11:25 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:there is a difference between that which we learn and how we incorporate those lessons.

I contend my 'rule' still holds true.


"The bees plunder the flowers here and there, but afterward they make of them honey, which is all theirs; it is no longer thyme or marjoram. Even so with the pieces borrowed from others; he will transform and blend them to make a work of his own, to wit, his judgment. His education, work, and study aim only at forming this."

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Brad Jeffers » April 5th, 2014, 1:25 am

Tom Frame wrote:
Jon Racherbaumer wrote:What still amazes me is that the original Jonah Card idea was published in CARD CONTROL and was largely overlooked or ignored...until Martin Gardner, Marlo, and others saw its possibilities....


One reason why it was overlooked or ignored is because Buckley's description of the handling was incorrect!


Where exactly in CARD CONTROLL is this located?

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Re: Ricky Jay on The Tonight Show March 31

Postby Marco Pusterla » April 5th, 2014, 4:35 am

Brad Jeffers wrote:Where exactly in CARD CONTROLL is this located?


It's only in the second edition, not in the Dover reprint...
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