Mike Caveney's new book
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Mike,
The new books are really great so far. (It will take a long time to read everything. I do agree that if there were a way to read the books on the iPad without risking piracy, would be really convenient.)
For those of us who haven't seen you perform everything, would be fantastic to be able to watch videos--especially would be wonderful to see the original performances from the second volume.
Any chance you'll consider releasing companion volumes of DVDs to the books? I just cannot imagine Mike Caveney clones running around. Your style and comic timing are unique. Most anyone who has the skill to copy you shouldn't need to... Also, performance only DVDs would force would-be clones to buy and read the books--probably too much effort for copy-cats...
Anyway, thank you for a great set of books!!!
Daniel
The new books are really great so far. (It will take a long time to read everything. I do agree that if there were a way to read the books on the iPad without risking piracy, would be really convenient.)
For those of us who haven't seen you perform everything, would be fantastic to be able to watch videos--especially would be wonderful to see the original performances from the second volume.
Any chance you'll consider releasing companion volumes of DVDs to the books? I just cannot imagine Mike Caveney clones running around. Your style and comic timing are unique. Most anyone who has the skill to copy you shouldn't need to... Also, performance only DVDs would force would-be clones to buy and read the books--probably too much effort for copy-cats...
Anyway, thank you for a great set of books!!!
Daniel
- erdnasephile
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
I love these books, and actually, I'm glad that there are no DVD's with it.
IMHO, it's just too easy, too tempting to look at the DVD's prior to wringing every last bit of juice from the text. For me, if I am considering performing a routine, I've found that watching a DVD too early in the process is actually a bit of a hindrance to finding myself in an effect.
One of the reasons I like the book so much is that Mike and I are polar opposites in terms of performance style, so I've got a fighting chance to take some of these ideas and build my own stuff, which makes the set all the more valuable to me.
I think those that have argued for a DVD make good points, and I agree with many of them. I just am so pleased with the books just the way they are. (Although I still haven't found the big error! )
IMHO, it's just too easy, too tempting to look at the DVD's prior to wringing every last bit of juice from the text. For me, if I am considering performing a routine, I've found that watching a DVD too early in the process is actually a bit of a hindrance to finding myself in an effect.
One of the reasons I like the book so much is that Mike and I are polar opposites in terms of performance style, so I've got a fighting chance to take some of these ideas and build my own stuff, which makes the set all the more valuable to me.
I think those that have argued for a DVD make good points, and I agree with many of them. I just am so pleased with the books just the way they are. (Although I still haven't found the big error! )
Last edited by erdnasephile on November 18th, 2013, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Despite what magicians say, video's of performances influence them massively and whenever you put out a video you do end up with clones. I don't release videos of any of my illusions for exactly this reason; by giving a performer the tools and framework but leaving your imagination unburdened (which is what Mike's book does so brilliantly) it forces each performer to find their own way of interpreting the ideas and thus spurs them on to evolve and develop the material in ways they never would if they had a reference video of someone else to watch.
In the olden days i used to put out demo videos but stopped when i noticed everyone who'd brought a certain effect did a certain move that had absolutely no relevance to the trick. In the demo video the performer had an itch and discreetly scratched it whilst disguising it as a move; because everyone who'd seen the video used that as their starting point to learn the performance (rather than using text and their imagination) they copied this move without ever understanding that it wasn't actually a part of the trick.
In the olden days i used to put out demo videos but stopped when i noticed everyone who'd brought a certain effect did a certain move that had absolutely no relevance to the trick. In the demo video the performer had an itch and discreetly scratched it whilst disguising it as a move; because everyone who'd seen the video used that as their starting point to learn the performance (rather than using text and their imagination) they copied this move without ever understanding that it wasn't actually a part of the trick.
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
In volume 2 of his books Mike discusses the illusions he re-enacted for the L.A. Conference on Magic History. To actually see this historical stuff--even re-enactments--on video would be great. (I've only gotten to see the last couple items described in the books live and would LOVE to see the rest.).
I think Mike's performance style is unique and very suited to him. Just don't see anyone copying his style and getting away with it.
I think Mike's performance style is unique and very suited to him. Just don't see anyone copying his style and getting away with it.
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
For those craving DVDs, note that Mike performed the Egg Bag routine on EMC 2010 and the Paul Valadon items (Drum that can't be beaten and Well I'm) on EMC 2012. Both great fun to watch.
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
I get Mike's hesitance of sharing performance video.
Last Winter/this Spring I taught myself to solder and do basic metal work in order to build the gaff for Tommy Wonder's Ring Watch and Wallet. After a significant investment in resources and time (at least a hundred hours hunched over a work bench, some spent in tremendous frustration) I had a crude but functional gimmick.
It didn't play the way I imagined and I cut it after only 2 shows. The magic was strong and well received, but I wasn't building the rapport, good will and connection that an opening sequence has to foster. Part of the reason, I'm convinced, is that I had watched Tommy's performance so many times that I unconsciously internalized his rhythm, timing, and speech pattern. It didn't fit me, didn't feel genuine -- which projected to guests that I wasn't genuine, and that's the exact opposite feeling you want at the top of the show.
There was no conscious effort to imitate Tommy, I worked hard to try to make it mine, but the way the brain learns from video is totally different from how it learns from text. It watches, then it copies what it saw -- and the brain doesn't know how to "just" copy the method related things.
And when you start imitating those speech patterns, rhythms, and ways of moving it is like trying to stretch someone else's skin over your skeleton: what is beautiful over the right skeleton becomes an ugly, bloody mess....
Obviously, you have to watch many other performers and limited, internalized imitation can make an act better -- I get 2 more laughs out of a standard gag, I'm convinced, because of the time I spent watching Johnny Carson and Jack Benny do "takes" -- but these things work, I think, because they follow the principle of "steal from many rather than one" -- having lots of small influences from many others is very different than taking a whole pre-packaged chunk from one, not just ethically but artistically.
The rule that works for me, and one reason I think that separating written technical instruction from performance video makes sense, is to try to avoid doing material that I've seen others perform. If I'm working on a plot I want to read every possible variation of it that I can, but I want to avoid seeing it done if at all possible. And I think the instinct that has Mike avoid putting the video side-by-side may come from a similar set of experiences with video learning.
Nathan
Last Winter/this Spring I taught myself to solder and do basic metal work in order to build the gaff for Tommy Wonder's Ring Watch and Wallet. After a significant investment in resources and time (at least a hundred hours hunched over a work bench, some spent in tremendous frustration) I had a crude but functional gimmick.
It didn't play the way I imagined and I cut it after only 2 shows. The magic was strong and well received, but I wasn't building the rapport, good will and connection that an opening sequence has to foster. Part of the reason, I'm convinced, is that I had watched Tommy's performance so many times that I unconsciously internalized his rhythm, timing, and speech pattern. It didn't fit me, didn't feel genuine -- which projected to guests that I wasn't genuine, and that's the exact opposite feeling you want at the top of the show.
There was no conscious effort to imitate Tommy, I worked hard to try to make it mine, but the way the brain learns from video is totally different from how it learns from text. It watches, then it copies what it saw -- and the brain doesn't know how to "just" copy the method related things.
And when you start imitating those speech patterns, rhythms, and ways of moving it is like trying to stretch someone else's skin over your skeleton: what is beautiful over the right skeleton becomes an ugly, bloody mess....
Obviously, you have to watch many other performers and limited, internalized imitation can make an act better -- I get 2 more laughs out of a standard gag, I'm convinced, because of the time I spent watching Johnny Carson and Jack Benny do "takes" -- but these things work, I think, because they follow the principle of "steal from many rather than one" -- having lots of small influences from many others is very different than taking a whole pre-packaged chunk from one, not just ethically but artistically.
The rule that works for me, and one reason I think that separating written technical instruction from performance video makes sense, is to try to avoid doing material that I've seen others perform. If I'm working on a plot I want to read every possible variation of it that I can, but I want to avoid seeing it done if at all possible. And I think the instinct that has Mike avoid putting the video side-by-side may come from a similar set of experiences with video learning.
Nathan
Last edited by NCMarsh on November 22nd, 2013, 12:06 am, edited 4 times in total.
- erdnasephile
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
As most of you know, these books came in a coolly-decorated cardboard box which enclosed the slip-cased books.
Is it advisable to throw the outside cardboard box away? The box isn't acid free, and I suspect (from my comics days), that it'd be a mistake to store the set within the outside cardboard box.
Thoughts?
Is it advisable to throw the outside cardboard box away? The box isn't acid free, and I suspect (from my comics days), that it'd be a mistake to store the set within the outside cardboard box.
Thoughts?
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Just like the big Taschen book, which also came in a specially printed box, I am keeping it, but NOT storing the books in it.
Dustin
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
RE: Million Dollar Mystery
In terms of video that allows you to appreciate the optical effect (per Travis' note above), Dani Larry did a strong version (two standing ovations in a piece lasting a few minutes) on Le Plus Grand Cabaret du Monde. Because of how active the camera work is on the show, you get a great sense of how strong the illusion is of from every viewing angle -- including the balconies as there are several shots on a jib here (it begins at 2:53 in this compilation of contemporary Million Dollar Mystery performances:
Incidentally, to me all of these contemporary presentations feel repetitive and anti-climatic vs. the routine described in the book By beginning through subtle effects like the empty bucket filling, to an unexpected cascade of hundreds of balls...and then having a full casket go into a tiny box, turn around inside of it, and then come out, by the time a human being is revealed inside it is a huge exclamation point and genuine surprise -- and gives the sequence a real finish....When you begin with a person appearing, there isn't a lot you can do to ratchet up the interest or impossibility
Here's my favorite of the contemporary routines I've seen, Wayne takes the principle and a great David Berglas presentational hook, and hits it out of the park:
It does occur that the Million Dollar Mystery could be used as one of the most deceptive (albeit difficult to troupe and expensive) prediction tricks...a small box on a tiny platform some distance from any curtains, never touched by the magician -- inside is a giant, stage-filling canvas that predicts virtually anything spectators say
I also wonder about miniaturizing the principle for a kind of nest-of-boxes: there's a, say, 2' x 2' x 2' cube with a plexiglass front...the inside walls have a beautiful design...in the middle of it, on a thin stand, is a smaller box in the very center...a cell-phone vanishes...another guest call's the number of the borrowed phone, it is heard ringing inside the box...box is opened and...
Just a few thoughts...
Nathan
In terms of video that allows you to appreciate the optical effect (per Travis' note above), Dani Larry did a strong version (two standing ovations in a piece lasting a few minutes) on Le Plus Grand Cabaret du Monde. Because of how active the camera work is on the show, you get a great sense of how strong the illusion is of from every viewing angle -- including the balconies as there are several shots on a jib here (it begins at 2:53 in this compilation of contemporary Million Dollar Mystery performances:
Incidentally, to me all of these contemporary presentations feel repetitive and anti-climatic vs. the routine described in the book By beginning through subtle effects like the empty bucket filling, to an unexpected cascade of hundreds of balls...and then having a full casket go into a tiny box, turn around inside of it, and then come out, by the time a human being is revealed inside it is a huge exclamation point and genuine surprise -- and gives the sequence a real finish....When you begin with a person appearing, there isn't a lot you can do to ratchet up the interest or impossibility
Here's my favorite of the contemporary routines I've seen, Wayne takes the principle and a great David Berglas presentational hook, and hits it out of the park:
It does occur that the Million Dollar Mystery could be used as one of the most deceptive (albeit difficult to troupe and expensive) prediction tricks...a small box on a tiny platform some distance from any curtains, never touched by the magician -- inside is a giant, stage-filling canvas that predicts virtually anything spectators say
I also wonder about miniaturizing the principle for a kind of nest-of-boxes: there's a, say, 2' x 2' x 2' cube with a plexiglass front...the inside walls have a beautiful design...in the middle of it, on a thin stand, is a smaller box in the very center...a cell-phone vanishes...another guest call's the number of the borrowed phone, it is heard ringing inside the box...box is opened and...
Just a few thoughts...
Nathan
Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Nathan;
Thank you for posting this. Your prediction and cell phone ideas are pure gold!
Since this is a very special time - the 50th anniversary of Dr. Who, why not make a miniature TARDIS to illustrate that it is larger on the inside.
Jim
Thank you for posting this. Your prediction and cell phone ideas are pure gold!
Since this is a very special time - the 50th anniversary of Dr. Who, why not make a miniature TARDIS to illustrate that it is larger on the inside.
Jim
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
NCMARSH,
I had never seen Wayne's version before. Thank you. it was wonderful.
I had never seen Wayne's version before. Thank you. it was wonderful.
Brendan
News, Lectures, Societies & Magic in Ireland
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News, Lectures, Societies & Magic in Ireland
http://www.IrishMagicNews.com
Shenanigans the irish magic convention 2-4 May 2014 Dublin
http://www.IrishMagicConvention.com
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Great clips, Nathan.
And kick-ass ideas!
And kick-ass ideas!
Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Great posts one and all.
Those are good arguments both pro and con regarding performance-only DVDs. As far as videos of the Conference Illusions go, we do have a camera in the back of the room just so we have a record of what happened but the show is produced (and lit) for the live audience. Therefore, the videos aren't great as anyone who saw the Del Adelphia Egg Bag, The Drum that Can't Be Beat and Well I'm! on the EMC DVDs can attest. But they are better than nothing.
Don't know what to say about saving the white outside shipping box that the books come in. It is not made from acid-free cardboard but I imagine it would take many years to have an affect on the green slipcase. I've seen lots of Harbin books with their original brown paper wrappers and sometimes in the original shipping box and they seem to be fine. And the Harbin book has been around for over 40 years (hard to believe).
Nathan, that compilation of Million Dollar Mystery routines is really great. Many magicians discover that they can produce everyone who is standing around backstage from the box and this ability become irresistible to them. The question becomes - is the production of ten girls really that much better than the production of five girls? I much prefer doing some odd-ball effects like the buckets of water and multiplying balls, all of which leads up to the final production of the one girl. These smaller effects were performed by Carter and Thurston and come to find out - those guys were pretty smart.
I'm enjoying all of your comments. Keep them coming.
Mike
Those are good arguments both pro and con regarding performance-only DVDs. As far as videos of the Conference Illusions go, we do have a camera in the back of the room just so we have a record of what happened but the show is produced (and lit) for the live audience. Therefore, the videos aren't great as anyone who saw the Del Adelphia Egg Bag, The Drum that Can't Be Beat and Well I'm! on the EMC DVDs can attest. But they are better than nothing.
Don't know what to say about saving the white outside shipping box that the books come in. It is not made from acid-free cardboard but I imagine it would take many years to have an affect on the green slipcase. I've seen lots of Harbin books with their original brown paper wrappers and sometimes in the original shipping box and they seem to be fine. And the Harbin book has been around for over 40 years (hard to believe).
Nathan, that compilation of Million Dollar Mystery routines is really great. Many magicians discover that they can produce everyone who is standing around backstage from the box and this ability become irresistible to them. The question becomes - is the production of ten girls really that much better than the production of five girls? I much prefer doing some odd-ball effects like the buckets of water and multiplying balls, all of which leads up to the final production of the one girl. These smaller effects were performed by Carter and Thurston and come to find out - those guys were pretty smart.
I'm enjoying all of your comments. Keep them coming.
Mike
Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Was happy to see Justin Willman perform The Nailed Card (minus the nail coin) from Mike Caveney Wonders on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno this past week. He got a great response under conditions that were not ideal for magic. You can find the spot on YouTube. It's always nice to see something you've published used successfully in a high octane setting. Well done Justin.
Mike Caveney
Mike Caveney
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
Mike, as you know last month while at Deans shoppe I was telling him how honored I was that you included me in your book! When I told him about the effect with the 52 decks he told me that he had seen it on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno and together we found it on you tube! You can't imagine how great that made me feel, and to see the lay audiences reaction!! Thank you so much for liking my idea enough to put it in your act and then to include it in your book! You're the greatest! (By the way I've got alot of other ideas!)
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
By this time, near 3 years later, I could acquired a second-hand set.
I have just look trough them and read some lines. At first sight it looks as great as I imagined. Particularly I was interested in Conference book, but now I see Wonders is too a hugh source of resources.
I need a lot of time to read thoroughly them. The nights are long.
Thank you Mr Caveney for your hard work and share it.
I have just look trough them and read some lines. At first sight it looks as great as I imagined. Particularly I was interested in Conference book, but now I see Wonders is too a hugh source of resources.
I need a lot of time to read thoroughly them. The nights are long.
Thank you Mr Caveney for your hard work and share it.
Andres Reynoso
Re: Mike Caveney's new book
WOW. After being dead and buried for about two years, this thread has suddenly come back to life. So just to bring you all up to date, I still have sets of books looking for a new home. If I ever want to feel extra good I always go back and read the reviews by Eric Mead in Genii, Jason England in MAGIC and Steve Bryant in his Little Egypt Gazette. Humbling indeed. I can't believe it has been nearly 3 years since the books came out. I'll have sets at the SAM in Indianapolis and Magic Live this summer for those who haven't seen the finished product. And thanks to all who have supported this project by purchasing a set.
Mike
Mike
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Re: Mike Caveney's new book
I have wished for solutions to this problem as well for many years. In the case of non-magic books that I refer to often, I find myself eventually owning both a physical book (hardbound when possible) and an e-book version be it for Kindle, iBooks or just a PDF. It's great for portability on something like an iPad, and I also love the ability to search the digital edition quickly - often going back to the physical edition once I find what I was looking for.
As NC Marsh says, I too am extremely reluctant to risk all of the care, the effort, the art and the love that typically goes into magic books by Mike, Richard and other top-tier magic authors by bringing my treasured tome(s) with me on a long flight for actual en route reading purposes. While there have been times that such books were with me on a long flight, those times have always and only been as a result of having purchased them at the magic convention I was returning from - and they were lovingly wrapped in multiple layers of padding inside a hard-sided carry on that was securely stored in an overhead compartment ... far away from where my neighbor could spill his drink on them or little Johnny could kick it to death (little Johnny instead being once again relegated to incessantly screaming and kicking the back of my seat while I'm trying to take a nap.)
Alas, no matter what technology one uses to protect, encrypt or otherwise secure a PDF or any electronic document or CD/DVD, there will always be other technology that can unprotect, decrypt or otherwise release the document from its feeble attempt at electronic lockdown. Even streaming video can be captured and saved (sorry to break that news to all those websites that still think there is security by not allowing buyers to download a video they've purchased and instead force them into a "subscription" or "on demand" delivery or some such.) Even the technique of "watermarking" a video by burning the purchaser's name into the delivered video only prevents unlimited mass distribution; localized mass distribution can still happen (e.g., if twenty friends all get together and chip in $5 to buy a $100 video and they do keep it strictly within their little artist and FBI-middle-finger-flipping group, there's unfortunately not much that can be done to stop them.)
The only thing that I've been able to do that's come anywhere even 10% of close has been to bite the bullet and buy two copies of a title that I want to keep pristine. If there's a regular and a deluxe/limited edition available, then the regular edition becomes the reading copy. If there's only one edition available, then the "worst" copy becomes my reading copy; "worst" could mean anything from "has very small imperfections (e.g., scratches or marks only visible when you tilt the book a certain way) to it being a used copy I expressly acquired as a reading copy a while after the original publication. I am incredibly persnickety when it come to my books ... I'll bet that I was in part responsible for the permanent closing of Borders books because I refused to leave the store after its announced closing hour while I was still digging through the stacks of copies of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows searching for the most pristine copy they had. (I probably shouldn't have just carelessly thrown the other copies aside as I think it only encouraged everyone else to keep doing the same thing too. OK, so that was a poor attempt a joke - but I was not going accept any copy with a wrinkle in the dust jacket or - horrors - a slight corner bump.)
Not sure what the solution is. Closest thing I can think of (since electronic documents are ruled out) might be to include a rather plain reading copy (perhaps in softcover, done in B&W text and photos) along with any of the books that are being published with a high production value. If such a copy gets beat up in use, that's fine - that's what it was designed for. But this would naturally add extra cost (in terms of production time, as well as purchasing and shipping costs.) Yet even then that could give rise to someone photocopying such a paperback reading edition for others ... and then perhaps even making a PDF of it. I guess you can't win against the thieves.
At least I can take solace that, while it will never accompany me on a long flight for reading purposes, my time with a set of books like Mike Caveney Wonders & The Conference Illusions will be cherished and special time when I am reading them - and away from any dirt, food, pets, etc. that could both figuratively and literally ruin the experience as well as the books. Hmmm. Upon further reflection, perhaps I should not be wishing for any such reading copies, electronic or physical at all; instead, perhaps I should be wishing for more physical magic books (and non-magic books) that compel me to find/make the time to have these cherished, special reading experiences. True magical moments indeed.
As NC Marsh says, I too am extremely reluctant to risk all of the care, the effort, the art and the love that typically goes into magic books by Mike, Richard and other top-tier magic authors by bringing my treasured tome(s) with me on a long flight for actual en route reading purposes. While there have been times that such books were with me on a long flight, those times have always and only been as a result of having purchased them at the magic convention I was returning from - and they were lovingly wrapped in multiple layers of padding inside a hard-sided carry on that was securely stored in an overhead compartment ... far away from where my neighbor could spill his drink on them or little Johnny could kick it to death (little Johnny instead being once again relegated to incessantly screaming and kicking the back of my seat while I'm trying to take a nap.)
Alas, no matter what technology one uses to protect, encrypt or otherwise secure a PDF or any electronic document or CD/DVD, there will always be other technology that can unprotect, decrypt or otherwise release the document from its feeble attempt at electronic lockdown. Even streaming video can be captured and saved (sorry to break that news to all those websites that still think there is security by not allowing buyers to download a video they've purchased and instead force them into a "subscription" or "on demand" delivery or some such.) Even the technique of "watermarking" a video by burning the purchaser's name into the delivered video only prevents unlimited mass distribution; localized mass distribution can still happen (e.g., if twenty friends all get together and chip in $5 to buy a $100 video and they do keep it strictly within their little artist and FBI-middle-finger-flipping group, there's unfortunately not much that can be done to stop them.)
The only thing that I've been able to do that's come anywhere even 10% of close has been to bite the bullet and buy two copies of a title that I want to keep pristine. If there's a regular and a deluxe/limited edition available, then the regular edition becomes the reading copy. If there's only one edition available, then the "worst" copy becomes my reading copy; "worst" could mean anything from "has very small imperfections (e.g., scratches or marks only visible when you tilt the book a certain way) to it being a used copy I expressly acquired as a reading copy a while after the original publication. I am incredibly persnickety when it come to my books ... I'll bet that I was in part responsible for the permanent closing of Borders books because I refused to leave the store after its announced closing hour while I was still digging through the stacks of copies of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows searching for the most pristine copy they had. (I probably shouldn't have just carelessly thrown the other copies aside as I think it only encouraged everyone else to keep doing the same thing too. OK, so that was a poor attempt a joke - but I was not going accept any copy with a wrinkle in the dust jacket or - horrors - a slight corner bump.)
Not sure what the solution is. Closest thing I can think of (since electronic documents are ruled out) might be to include a rather plain reading copy (perhaps in softcover, done in B&W text and photos) along with any of the books that are being published with a high production value. If such a copy gets beat up in use, that's fine - that's what it was designed for. But this would naturally add extra cost (in terms of production time, as well as purchasing and shipping costs.) Yet even then that could give rise to someone photocopying such a paperback reading edition for others ... and then perhaps even making a PDF of it. I guess you can't win against the thieves.
At least I can take solace that, while it will never accompany me on a long flight for reading purposes, my time with a set of books like Mike Caveney Wonders & The Conference Illusions will be cherished and special time when I am reading them - and away from any dirt, food, pets, etc. that could both figuratively and literally ruin the experience as well as the books. Hmmm. Upon further reflection, perhaps I should not be wishing for any such reading copies, electronic or physical at all; instead, perhaps I should be wishing for more physical magic books (and non-magic books) that compel me to find/make the time to have these cherished, special reading experiences. True magical moments indeed.