Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

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Larry Horowitz
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Larry Horowitz » February 6th, 2013, 1:18 pm

John,
Regarding a court order stopping the convention and your fear of hurting magicians.

A court order would be a legal action based upon facts and law. Should you receive this injunction, then Derek Lever and the Blackpool convention and organizers would be in violation of the law.

Were the event not to take place because of this violation then the magicians and vendors would have grounds for a class-action suit against the organizers. Even various hotels and local vendors may have cause, do to loss of income.

I do not believe the organizers would put themselves into a position which can easily be avoided.

Often strong measures are needed to foster change for the better.

Seekerofjustice
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Seekerofjustice » February 6th, 2013, 8:01 pm

ATTENTION = For those who have been spreading complete rubbish and lies about me on magic forums such as Alex D Fisher (and others who in the main are friends I gather of Derek Lever) and for those who have seen such rubbish, now is your chance to actually learn the truth about what has been and what is going on..

For the real truth about what's going on (Regarding Derek Lever and Blackpool Magic Convention) I suggest you read this:

http://klearthoughtsmentalismhypnosis.w ... fism-2012/

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Magic Newswire » February 6th, 2013, 8:16 pm

Looking forward to the release and the website

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Seuss » February 6th, 2013, 9:37 pm

If you are flammable and have legs you are never blocking a fire exit - Mitch Hedberg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDrzCaC8qzc
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby mrgoat » February 7th, 2013, 5:36 pm

Update: heard back from the Winter Gardens, they Manager will be contacting me tomorrow, he has been away for the last two days.

Hopefully he will confirm the BMC are lying when they say having an interpreter is a H&S concern.

Fingers crossed, everyone.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby mrgoat » February 8th, 2013, 3:59 am

Paul Daniels has just tweeted out the link to the blog and put "I can't believe Blackpool are doing this"

:)

As JR would way, onwards!

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 9th, 2013, 5:11 am

Hi Everyone
I apologize for not posting, as I have been busy working
with our Secretary-General Dr Simon Carmel from Florida
and Damian Jennings from England, plus performing. phew.

Damian ( mrgoat ) has been appointed our spokesman and we got
things moving fast, boy aint he fast, I blink and hes gone LOL.

we are getting fedback now, and he will keep you posted soon.

I would like to say I have been overwhelmed with support, phew,
sigh , got lump in throat.

Many of you have pledged sums of money and services, but hopefully it may not be needed, and I thank you.

from the bottom of our hearts we deaf magicians THANK YOU ALL,

but the battle is not over yet, onwards to victory !

Harrizon
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Harrizon » February 11th, 2013, 5:05 am

Following on from various emails & phone calls, I understand the current position is that sign language interpreters may well be given free entry to the event, but must translate from a seat next to anyone requiring their services.

Whilst this is definitely a small step forwards, I'm still struggling to understand how this can be classed as a fully acceptable solution.

Signers will be of most assistance during the various lectures during the event. However, the solution which is offered will create various issues -

Those who require a signer will be forced to watch either the stage / performance area OR the signer... effectively rendering them blind to what is going on if they want to know what is being said. Whilst this may be a suitable solution for lectures / events / conferences that do not rely so much on visual performance, it isn't ideal for those wishing to learn magic.

Having a signer located within the audience is surely more of a distraction to others than they would be if they were located to the side of the performance area. This is where most signers are located, so that signers can be seen at the same time as the performers.

Making such arrangements will require more signers at each lecture (possibly one per person) than if there were just one signer at the front of the room.

The Convention organisers (I believe one individual, but I have yet to see his name put to a statement) keep quoting Health & Safety laws for the reason why Signers must sit in the audience, and nowhere else, yet I suspect this is just an attempt at being stubborn, and may have other consequences which will only be discovered over the weekend.

A signer would surely not be required to stand in an aisle way? Even if they were (which seems just as ludicrous a place for them to stand as asking them to sit in the middle of the audience) they would not, as a single person, pose any risk should there be a fire or other emergency. In the event of requiring to evacuate a room, or the whole building, as they are already stood up and mobile, they would in fact pose less of a risk than anyone sat in a chair.

I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that on arrival, signers will be told that they must sit at the rear of the room alongside anyone who is deaf.

The organisers should recognise that what they are doing is quite unfair. They may well have made a slight concession, but it isn't nearly enough.

If signers are to be allowed free entry to the event, this is a great start, but there is plenty of opportunity to improve on the vague statements being made.

If there is anyone involved in the organisation of the convention (and I have no doubt at all that there will be) reading this thread, is there any chance that the following simple questions can be answered, either on this forum, or on the BMC's own website...

1) Why can't each lecture, where required, have one sign language interpreter be stood at the front of the room alongside the lecturer? This is the usual arrangement for the majority of event held in the Winter Gardens and elsewhere around the world.

2)If sign language interpreters must be sat in the audience, rather than located at the front of the room where they may (according to your correspondence) pose a fire risk, please can you confirm that at no point during lectures, that audience members will also not be allowed to stand up (for the purposes of assisting the performer in the performance area)?

3) Please can you define exactly how a fit and mobile individual will create a risk or hazard by standing up at the front of a room?

4) How does the potential risk caused by having an interpreter at the front of the room compare (Using the HSE's 5 point matrix assessment) to the risks caused by audience members with various mobility issues, the storage & use of flash products etc.

5) If you insist on signers being sat next to deaf magicians within the audience, please can you confirm whether or not seats will be / can be reserved, to ensure that there will be a miminum of 2 adjacent seats per deaf person, especially for lectures etc which are expected to be popular?

6) If such seating is to be reserved prior to each lecture, please can you confirm where in the room such seating will be provided?

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 11th, 2013, 8:59 am

Harrizon wrote:Following on from various emails & phone calls, I understand the current position is that sign language interpreters may well be given free entry to the event, but must translate from a seat next to anyone requiring their services.

Whilst this is definitely a small step forwards, I'm still struggling to understand how this can be classed as a fully acceptable solution.

Signers will be of most assistance during the various lectures during the event. However, the solution which is offered will create various issues -

Those who require a signer will be forced to watch either the stage / performance area OR the signer... effectively rendering them blind to what is going on if they want to know what is being said. Whilst this may be a suitable solution for lectures / events / conferences that do not rely so much on visual performance, it isn't ideal for those wishing to learn magic.

Having a signer located within the audience is surely more of a distraction to others than they would be if they were located to the side of the performance area. This is where most signers are located, so that signers can be seen at the same time as the performers.

Making such arrangements will require more signers at each lecture (possibly one per person) than if there were just one signer at the front of the room.

The Convention organisers (I believe one individual, but I have yet to see his name put to a statement) keep quoting Health & Safety laws for the reason why Signers must sit in the audience, and nowhere else, yet I suspect this is just an attempt at being stubborn, and may have other consequences which will only be discovered over the weekend.

A signer would surely not be required to stand in an aisle way? Even if they were (which seems just as ludicrous a place for them to stand as asking them to sit in the middle of the audience) they would not, as a single person, pose any risk should there be a fire or other emergency. In the event of requiring to evacuate a room, or the whole building, as they are already stood up and mobile, they would in fact pose less of a risk than anyone sat in a chair.

I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that on arrival, signers will be told that they must sit at the rear of the room alongside anyone who is deaf.

The organisers should recognise that what they are doing is quite unfair. They may well have made a slight concession, but it isn't nearly enough.

If signers are to be allowed free entry to the event, this is a great start, but there is plenty of opportunity to improve on the vague statements being made.

If there is anyone involved in the organisation of the convention (and I have no doubt at all that there will be) reading this thread, is there any chance that the following simple questions can be answered, either on this forum, or on the BMC's own website...

1) Why can't each lecture, where required, have one sign language interpreter be stood at the front of the room alongside the lecturer? This is the usual arrangement for the majority of event held in the Winter Gardens and elsewhere around the world.

2)If sign language interpreters must be sat in the audience, rather than located at the front of the room where they may (according to your correspondence) pose a fire risk, please can you confirm that at no point during lectures, that audience members will also not be allowed to stand up (for the purposes of assisting the performer in the performance area)?

3) Please can you define exactly how a fit and mobile individual will create a risk or hazard by standing up at the front of a room?

4) How does the potential risk caused by having an interpreter at the front of the room compare (Using the HSE's 5 point matrix assessment) to the risks caused by audience members with various mobility issues, the storage & use of flash products etc.

5) If you insist on signers being sat next to deaf magicians within the audience, please can you confirm whether or not seats will be / can be reserved, to ensure that there will be a miminum of 2 adjacent seats per deaf person, especially for lectures etc which are expected to be popular?

6) If such seating is to be reserved prior to each lecture, please can you confirm where in the room such seating will be provided?


This is a small step forward, but unacceptable.

if interpreters sat in audience how can deaf see when sat in a row, will get very stiff necks and cant see Lecturers

Interpreter must be in front next to Lecturer, so it is visual to see the interpreter also the Lecturer when he is demonstrating.

Fire Risk? no way , How, there are flash products and flames used as well on stage which is worse, also many hearing stand in gangways before and after shows talking, plus also long Queues for ice cream etc.

we never have any problems all over the world, so why Blackpool?

all west end theaters have interpreters in side of stage no problem, again why not Blackpool.

we have no vendetta against BMC or any person, we just want interpreters, all they have to do is say yes and all problems solved instead of dragging on.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Sybilmagic » February 11th, 2013, 9:25 am

Surely having an interrupter increases the health & safety! If any fire-alarm sounded the evacuation could be made more quickly for any deaf magicians.

The whole 'gangway' argument is mental! A few obvious flaws in this argument:

-A year ago I attended a recording of "Britian's got Talent" in the Winter Gardens. They had an entire side of the auditorium blocked off for a Jib Camera and had production staff stood blocking that gangway. ITV are a production company with far more knowledge of H&S than DL.

-At FISM they had a photographer constantly walking around the aisle with his SLR.

-Shawn Farquhar close-up act had a manned camera to the side of the stage.

-FISM at the organist to the side of the stage (good has he was) throughout most performances.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Tim Ellis » February 11th, 2013, 9:58 am

Bottom line is there is ABSOLUTELY no difference between a language translator standing on stage with the performer and translating the performer's words into English than there is a sign language translator doing exactly the same thing.

The only possible reason why this is dragging on and on is that someone simply cannot stand to be shown to be wrong.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 11th, 2013, 12:05 pm

Derek Lever is just a jerk. The so-called "concession" to the deal which allows an interpreter to be seated in the audience beside the deaf only serves one deaf person, who (as has been pointed out) can no longer look at the stage!

This is idiotic.

The whole thing is idiotic.

That it should even be an issue is beyond absurd, and just proves that Derek Lever should be shown the door as quickly as possible so The Blackpool Magician's Club isn't further embarrassed by their president. If the Pope can step down, so can Derek Lever
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby magicshaw » February 11th, 2013, 2:54 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:
If the Pope can step down, so can Derek Lever




Well said and yes, the pope doesn't have a set of horns and a pointy tail. thats why he stood down.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 11th, 2013, 4:00 pm

Richard ,,, Tim ,,,, Magicshaw ,,,

PERFECTLY CORRECT IN ALL YOU SAY.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Larry Horowitz » February 14th, 2013, 12:59 pm

What is the latest update?

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 14th, 2013, 1:49 pm

Larry Horowitz wrote:What is the latest update?



As fr as I know we are still waiting for reply from the Winter Gardens also D. Lever.

every objection they have put forward we have replied and overcomne.
now we have overcome the stupid fire hazard etc, but no reply.

this is not unusual from D. Lever as I has refused to reply to most of my letters for three years.

just seven days to go to the convention, if not solved, I think I will turn up with an interpreter and see what happens.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby KirkG » February 14th, 2013, 1:51 pm

Any press coverage happen?

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 14th, 2013, 2:13 pm

From what I understand, the Winter Gardens management have not yet replied. If Johnny shows up with an interpreter, and they are arrested, or forcibly removed from the premises by Mr. Lever, then I think the media will sudddenly become more interested. And it's not going to be pretty for either the Blackpool Magician's Club or the Wintergardens Management when the headline in the Daily Mail reads: "Deaf Magicians Discriminated Against and Tossed from Blackpool Convention by Overzealous Organizer."
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby CraigMitchell » February 14th, 2013, 2:52 pm

Richard - you'll make an excellent interpreter!

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Tim Ellis » February 14th, 2013, 7:44 pm

Just looking at the program for Blackpool this year, I can't help but feel it is a better line up and much better value than the FISM organised last year by the same team
http://www.blackpoolmagic.com/blackpoolconv.html

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Richard Kaufman » February 14th, 2013, 7:48 pm

Tim, were you at FISM in Blackpool? I can't remember. The line up at this year's Blackpool convention seems at a glance to consist mostly of the FISM contest winners.
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Tim Ellis » February 14th, 2013, 8:03 pm

Here's an idea. Apparently at BlackFISM the judges were all given iPads (which they got to keep afterwards, I am told).

How about Derek provide iPads to the deaf magicians and the translator can sit in another room and type what the lecturer is saying directly onto the iPad screens.

In fact, as having someone on stage to translate is an OHSS issue, he could also have Italian, German, Swedish, Australian etc translators in another room translating live via hearing loops to the registrants who don't understand English.

That's what they do at professional business conventions with great success!

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Tim Ellis » February 14th, 2013, 9:16 pm

Over 46 booked acts doing galas and lectures

JOE MONTI,
SIMON LOVELL,
PATRICK LEHNEN,
MARK MASON
JAN LOGEMANN,
NICHOLAS EINHRON,
ZEKI YOO,
PHIL CASS,
YUJI YASUDA,
YU HO JIN,
TED KIM,
LUKAS,
KIM HYUN JOON,
HAON GUN,
LEE HUN,
NICKY YANG,
YANG JAE-HYEOCK,
MATTHEW WRIGHT,
JOHAN STAHL,
COLIN MCLEOD,
DIRK LOSANDER,
JAY SCOTT BERRY,
MICHAEL WEBER,
SIMON LOVELL,
WAYNE DOBSON,
MEL MELLERS,
MARK MASON,
DAVID WILLIAMSON,
DAVID MERRY,
ANTJE PODE,
NATALIE & ELI,
PHILLIP HITCHCOCK
THE LASERMAN,
PRINCE OF ILLUSIONS,
GARY DUNN,
MICHAEL J FITCH,
ANTHONY OWEN,
TONY FREBOURG,
LES CHAPEAUX BLANCS,
YANN FRISCH,
KEN DODD
MARC & ALEX
SONY HAYES
MARKO KARVO
GEORGE KOVARI JR
HIGH JINX

Plus the British Children's Entertainer Championship and "Beat The Wand" Competition in the Theatre Bar of the Winter Gardens. Competition open to "approved registrants."

I'm sure, based on the booked artists alone, this will be a big success - but I am puzzled as to why he didn't book this calibre of acts for BlackFISM?


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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 15th, 2013, 6:05 am

Richard Kaufman wrote:From what I understand, the Winter Gardens management have not yet replied. If Johnny shows up with an interpreter, and they are arrested, or forcibly removed from the premises by Mr. Lever, then I think the media will sudddenly become more interested. And it's not going to be pretty for either the Blackpool Magician's Club or the Wintergardens Management when the headline in the Daily Mail reads: "Deaf Magicians Discriminated Against and Tossed from Blackpool Convention by Overzealous Organizer."


If no reply then I may do that, Mr Lever has banned many before, but has a bad habit of doing it when they arrive, therefore wasted journey and loads of expense.
I have already booked my ticket and hotel months ago, and its a 4 hour drive for me as well, but I dont mind if I can just succeed for Deaf Magicians all over the world and bring deaf awareness to other conventions,
I would like them to see if they can use force on me, then I defend myself or sue them for assault

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 15th, 2013, 6:12 am

Tim Ellis wrote:Here's an idea. Apparently at BlackFISM the judges were all given iPads (which they got to keep afterwards, I am told).

How about Derek provide iPads to the deaf magicians and the translator can sit in another room and type what the lecturer is saying directly onto the iPad screens.

In fact, as having someone on stage to translate is an OHSS issue, he could also have Italian, German, Swedish, Australian etc translators in another room translating live via hearing loops to the registrants who don't understand English.

That's what they do at professional business conventions with great success!


thats a good idea, it is used in some interpreters services, but not typing, signing, will he let us keep the IPads ? LOL

On a serious note, on stage or front of lecturer is best as we can have eye contact with both Interpreter and lecturer demo.

repeat there is NO health & Safety or Fire Hazard rules to stop it, in fact in case of fire it will help Deaf also Hard of Hearing Magicians and perhaps hearing ones too if Interpreter sudden gives a warning.
Oh come on Mr Lever, Just swallow your pride allow it and everyones friends again

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 15th, 2013, 1:44 pm

Larry Horowitz wrote:What is the latest update?


As far as I know we are stuck at the moment, winter gardens managment and BMC refuse to move.

they have changed mind and accept Interpreter and offered free ticket,
BUT ,, Interprter MUST sit in the audience next to deaf person,

so seems we stuck as they not break the law.

However this is not acceptable as deaf magician will be looking side ways and miss lecture demo etc,

rcking brains what to do.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby erdnasephile » February 15th, 2013, 2:27 pm

Tim Ellis wrote:Over 46 booked acts doing galas and lectures

JOE MONTI,
SIMON LOVELL,
PATRICK LEHNEN,
MARK MASON
JAN LOGEMANN,
NICHOLAS EINHRON,
ZEKI YOO,
PHIL CASS,
YUJI YASUDA,
YU HO JIN,
TED KIM,
LUKAS,
KIM HYUN JOON,
HAON GUN,
LEE HUN,
NICKY YANG,
YANG JAE-HYEOCK,
MATTHEW WRIGHT,
JOHAN STAHL,
COLIN MCLEOD,
DIRK LOSANDER,
JAY SCOTT BERRY,
MICHAEL WEBER,
SIMON LOVELL,
WAYNE DOBSON,
MEL MELLERS,
MARK MASON,
DAVID WILLIAMSON,
DAVID MERRY,
ANTJE PODE,
NATALIE & ELI,
PHILLIP HITCHCOCK
THE LASERMAN,
PRINCE OF ILLUSIONS,
GARY DUNN,
MICHAEL J FITCH,
ANTHONY OWEN,
TONY FREBOURG,
LES CHAPEAUX BLANCS,
YANN FRISCH,
KEN DODD
MARC & ALEX
SONY HAYES
MARKO KARVO
GEORGE KOVARI JR
HIGH JINX


I'm sure that most (if not all) of these performers need bookings like this to feed their families, so being banned would be presumably harmful to them.

However, I wish that it were practical for them to issue a joint statement supporting the notion of allowing their lectures/performances translated for the benefit of the deaf.

Better yet, perhaps performers/lecturers will factor all of this into their decision on whether to work next year's convention.

Nothing will change until the people that matter to the organizers take a stand.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 15th, 2013, 3:19 pm

erdnasephile wrote:
Tim Ellis wrote:Over 46 booked acts doing galas and lectures

JOE MONTI,
SIMON LOVELL,
PATRICK LEHNEN,
MARK MASON
JAN LOGEMANN,
NICHOLAS EINHRON,
ZEKI YOO,
PHIL CASS,
YUJI YASUDA,
YU HO JIN,
TED KIM,
LUKAS,
KIM HYUN JOON,
HAON GUN,
LEE HUN,
NICKY YANG,
YANG JAE-HYEOCK,
MATTHEW WRIGHT,
JOHAN STAHL,
COLIN MCLEOD,
DIRK LOSANDER,
JAY SCOTT BERRY,
MICHAEL WEBER,
SIMON LOVELL,
WAYNE DOBSON,
MEL MELLERS,
MARK MASON,
DAVID WILLIAMSON,
DAVID MERRY,
ANTJE PODE,
NATALIE & ELI,
PHILLIP HITCHCOCK
THE LASERMAN,
PRINCE OF ILLUSIONS,
GARY DUNN,
MICHAEL J FITCH,
ANTHONY OWEN,
TONY FREBOURG,
LES CHAPEAUX BLANCS,
YANN FRISCH,
KEN DODD
MARC & ALEX
SONY HAYES
MARKO KARVO
GEORGE KOVARI JR
HIGH JINX


I'm sure that most (if not all) of these performers need bookings like this to feed their families, so being banned would be presumably harmful to them.

However, I wish that it were practical for them to issue a joint statement supporting the notion of allowing their lectures/performances translated for the benefit of the deaf.

Better yet, perhaps performers/lecturers will factor all of this into their decision on whether to work next year's convention.

Nothing will change until the people that matter to the organizers take a stand.


that is true, but we want to approach the lecturers to ask, if they say no then we respect them, but I am sure all will say yes.

but they wont let us contact the lecturers or performers etc thats the problem

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Tom Moore » February 15th, 2013, 3:28 pm

You cannot approach the lecturer's at the convention; i don't see why you cannot contact the lecturers BEFORE the convention with a simple statement "We're bring a group of deaf magicians and a signer to your lecture/performance, BMC have already approved our signer; would it be ok if the signer stands to the side of the stage during your lecture/performance so that they can be seen by all the deaf magicians attending?"

I'm fairly sure that a request like that would be accepted by most lecturers and then if there is an "issue" at the convention itself you'll be able to call upon the lecturer to confirm that they've ok'd everything; with this in mind BMC wouldn't have a leg to stand on with regards to stopping the signer or throwing anyone out.
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Joe Pecore » February 15th, 2013, 4:25 pm

You should ask all the lecturers to pick the sign language interpreter as their volunteer :)
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 15th, 2013, 6:10 pm

Tom Moore wrote:You cannot approach the lecturer's at the convention; i don't see why you cannot contact the lecturers BEFORE the convention with a simple statement "We're bring a group of deaf magicians and a signer to your lecture/performance, BMC have already approved our signer; would it be ok if the signer stands to the side of the stage during your lecture/performance so that they can be seen by all the deaf magicians attending?"

I'm fairly sure that a request like that would be accepted by most lecturers and then if there is an "issue" at the convention itself you'll be able to call upon the lecturer to confirm that they've ok'd everything; with this in mind BMC wouldn't have a leg to stand on with regards to stopping the signer or throwing anyone out.


good idea could try that but what if BMC refuse?
I honestly dont know what the fuss is about as all other conventions have no problem.

anyone know a magician with legal experience in this country please contact quickly to help

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Tom Moore » February 15th, 2013, 7:04 pm

BMC refuse "what" ???

BMC have now said that signers can come in, if you ask a lecturer BEFORE the convention if they are ok with a signer being on stage then someone from BMC is going to have to explain to the lecturer (in front of a room full of magicians) why they can't have the signer on stage. I would doubt 99% of the BMC staff would stop it from happening; if they do then they will have to explain to the lecturer why it's happening; I would be very surprised if a star name lecturer then agreed with BMC and had a signer removed as now the headlines would be "world famous magician XXXXXXXX has signer thrown out of magic convention" - ie career suicide

This whole situation is all wrong, BMC are in the wrong, however there's NO law that can be used in advance to ensure signers are allowed in the proper way - only once the convention has started and a signer refused/thrown-out will you have any legal redress because it is only at that moment an actual "crime" has taken place. Based on previous experiences Derek will not back down in advance and will not discuss this with you any more. Your only course of action is finding a media outlet who will effectively blackmail BMC in to doing the right thing in advance, or by doing it covertly and basically getting signers in by the back door.
"Ingenious" - Ben Brantley: New York Times

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 15th, 2013, 7:10 pm

Tom Moore wrote:BMC refuse "what" ???

BMC have now said that signers can come in, if you ask a lecturer BEFORE the convention if they are ok with a signer being on stage then someone from BMC is going to have to explain to the lecturer (in front of a room full of magicians) why they can't have the signer on stage. I would doubt 99% of the BMC staff would stop it from happening; if they do then they will have to explain to the lecturer why it's happening; I would be very surprised if a star name lecturer then agreed with BMC and had a signer removed as now the headlines would be "world famous magician XXXXXXXX has signer thrown out of magic convention" - ie career suicide

This whole situation is all wrong, BMC are in the wrong, however there's NO law that can be used in advance to ensure signers are allowed in the proper way - only once the convention has started and a signer refused/thrown-out will you have any legal redress because it is only at that moment an actual "crime" has taken place. Based on previous experiences Derek will not back down in advance and will not discuss this with you any more. Your only course of action is finding a media outlet who will effectively blackmail BMC in to doing the right thing in advance, or by doing it covertly and basically getting signers in by the back door.


Tom thats very interesting, I have contacted Damian and see what he says, will get a list of lecturers at BMC and try contact them before, have to be quick,

Johnny

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 21st, 2013, 7:40 am

I am not going to Blackpool this year due to family problems at last minute.

however, i am still working for the rights of Deaf magicians, i had an Interpreter for free for this convention, but she hgas withdrawn so has other interpreters they say ' it is un Professional for them to Interpret in the audience ', they feel it must be on stage or in the front, I agree with them.

I have today information come to me that at last years lecture there was a lecturer from Japan, he had a translator on stage so did a couple of other foreign lecturers had translators on stage too.

So, BMC and Winter Gardens, how can our Interpreters be a health and safety hazard and fire risk ????????
dont understand

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Tim Ellis
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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Tim Ellis » February 21st, 2013, 8:41 am

Derek always gets his way...

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby CraigMitchell » February 21st, 2013, 9:53 am

John Archer @TheArchini:

Since I am only deaf in one ear, I would like to request that Ren Lavand sign for me. #blackpoolmagic

priceless

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Bob Farmer » February 21st, 2013, 4:46 pm

If Lever is a member of the IBM or the SAM or any other magic club,there must be ethical requirements he has breached by his behavior. So, how about a taste of his own medicine -- toss him out.

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Fantastica » February 22nd, 2013, 3:51 pm

Bob Farmer wrote:If Lever is a member of the IBM or the SAM or any other magic club,there must be ethical requirements he has breached by his behavior. So, how about a taste of his own medicine -- toss him out.


He is a member of I.B.M., Blackpool magicians Club, Manchester Magic Circle and others, dont see any of them have the guts to do that

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Re: Derek Lever ... Discriminating Against Deaf Magicians

Postby Richard Stokes » February 23rd, 2013, 6:38 am

By the way, does anyone have a link to an independent blog that covers the 2013 Blackpool Convention?
I'd like to read up on how it's going.


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