Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
Michael Jay
Posts: 57
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 12:44 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Michael Jay » February 28th, 2013, 12:00 pm

mrgoat wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:
Some background: Magic Bunny appears to be administered by Michael Jay, who has a habit of calling people who post things he doesn't like "retards."


Michael Jay is a complete tosser. He has no idea about magic. See if you can find some of his performance videos. he makes Mark Lewis look good. Really. He is embarrassing. Pathetic. Talentless. His is like a Scout Leader doing magic for children.

Magic Bunny was run by someone, who then stopped doing it. Michael Jay is like a homeless person with nothing to do so he got given admin on it. He is ridiculously bad.

If you saw him perform, you wouldn't waste two seconds on him.

"His" forum is full of idiots that make the cafe look like it is populated by geniuses.

I'm so grateful for this place. It is like kobe fillet. The magic bunny is like a 2 day old happy meal. Only talk magic is worse. And that is saying something!

And I'm accused of allowing libel on my forums. What a pathetic joke.

Mike.

User avatar
Matthew Field
Posts: 2846
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Slydini
Location: Hastings, England, UK

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Matthew Field » February 28th, 2013, 12:25 pm

I'm in for year two, and have enjoyed the experience of year one. Am I a fan of each and every item? No, but the pleasure of opening that monthly envelope is to me worth the price of the ticket.

Matt Field

Ian Kendall
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Ian Kendall » February 28th, 2013, 12:41 pm

"And I'm accused of allowing libel on my forums."

Technically, Damian's post isn't libellous. A tad rude, perhaps, but not libel.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 28th, 2013, 1:58 pm

1) vehement epithet - protected by law. Damien's post is not libel. magic bunnies need to learn difference between speculation and claim. I have been through a libel suit (and won). Magic bunny is on shaky ground.

2) copyright violation - abrahamelin has posted what appears to be exact reproduction of text from a real secrets item. How is this not in violation of copyright.

3) why magic will never be thought of as an art - because most lack depth of thought. 'secrets' to a bunny apparently are only methods. yet They seem not to be able to understand that their behavior validates real secrets and the need for secrecy. If magicians of all people refuse to respect another persons desire to keep a secret - any secret - than can we ever expect normal people to treat us as more than guessing game with sequins? The magic bunny proves that magicians have no respect for secrets, and perhaps we need more projects like rs which severly curtail access and knowledge in order to protect the art from those who believe, because they have access to an ink jet printer and card stock, that they are magicians.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 28th, 2013, 2:40 pm

correction : vigorous epithet

Bob Farmer
Posts: 3308
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Short card above selection.

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Bob Farmer » February 28th, 2013, 3:36 pm

Any discussion of any subject that includes a reference to something called the "Magic Bunny" invites uncontrollable snickering. For the purpose of serious comment, from now on please refer to it as the "Magic Hamster of Wonder" to add some dignity.

And the implied imagery is all wrong: an adult man dressed in a giant blue bunny suit with long, floppy ears, whining about some magic tricks not being to his liking.

Bizarre.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Bill Mullins » February 28th, 2013, 3:50 pm

Guinea pigs are even more dignified.
Image

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 28th, 2013, 4:40 pm

guinea pigs are also smart enough to know what 'fair use' is.

bunnies are not.

when a magician explains a trick you use, it's exposure. when a magician explains a trick you want to know, it's "magicians helping magician," "fair use" or "the only way the art grows."

I love the way burns feels that a company should be required to use a business model he approves of. Exposing those who do not is 'the right thing to do.'

is this any different from James l Clark selling inexpensive versions of marketed tricks on the grounds that he feels that is the right thing to do, that it is unfair for people to charge the prices they set for their ideas? I suppose burns feels that if a creator places a price too high on an item, it is noble to expose that item - since that's the way he thinks someone else's business should be run.

And the closed minded ness - and willingness to ignore any fact that fails to support their narrative.

I think some of these guys must have been abused by a mail order magic club as a child.

but ultimately it is the arrogance which is most revealing - their sense of entitlement. ultimately they are sad. they remind me of the kid who steals and pops the ball the other kids are playing with, just because they don't believe others should be allowed to have fun.

please tell me all magicians in Britain are not like this. Watching them spin over there makes me want nothing to do with that continent, for fear I might actually have to deal with people like them.

Alec Burns
Posts: 2
Joined: February 28th, 2013, 5:00 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Alec Burns » February 28th, 2013, 5:21 pm

Hello.

I just joined so that I could respond to a couple of points that henderson has raised about a post I made on Magic Bunny.

henderson states that he loves how I state that a company should use a business model that I approve of. If you were to read my post in its entirety and take a step away from the 'all bunnies are closed minded kids' then you will see that you are seeing what you want to see.

What I was actually saying was wouldn't it be prudent of a company to allow feedback from its members in public forums so that any issues may be addressed. The feedback would be honest and may even pay dividends to RS in that new people may become interested in the project. I believe this to be a useful statement and not one that states that exposure is the right thing to do.

You then go on to 'suppose' my thoughts on my behalf. People can suppose many things can't they!?

I made a post regarding RS that I believe in. The members who are not renewing their memberships are not renewing for a reason. As with all things, improvements could be made. Now that the review has been posted it would make sense to correct the review if its not accurate to how others feel. The trouble is, no one is allowed to talk about it. I hope you can see that this causes confusion to those of us who are not members.

I don't fancy this purely because I can't afford it. If people enjoy it then that makes me happy.

henderson, trust me. I'm a nobody in the world of magic. A quick search will show that I have less than 3 years of studying magic. Try to remove the anger from yourself and see my post for what it was. A simple suggestion of how I would try to make improvements. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Alec

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Bill Mullins » February 28th, 2013, 5:31 pm

One possible reason for the RS team not to comment on the "review" and whether or not it is accurate is that they have committed to a business model that includes not disclosing details about their products to non-members. For them to comment would be a public endorsement of discussion.

They may have decided that they'd rather tolerate a bad review, warts and all, than to break their commitment of secrecy to their paying customers by responding to it, and in so doing, confirming or denying the nature of the tricks and thus revealing them.

I have to believe that the people behind RS had a discussion before the first trick was released about what to do when the first secrets were inevitably revealed (I'm kind of surprised it has taken this long for a review that openly talked about what the secrets were). No doubt they came to the conclusion to ignore it -- that's the only path that makes sense. And that's what they seem to be doing.

JimW
Posts: 70
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby JimW » February 28th, 2013, 5:42 pm

Alec, when Richard Kaufman posted on your forum to clear up some factual errors, he was met with more accusations and name calling. When he responded, you replied with

"A bucket with bigger depth, holds more water. At present you don't hold much water. Please don't fall into the trap that your name holds any sway here."

This coming from someone who has only been studying magic for three years?

Alec Burns
Posts: 2
Joined: February 28th, 2013, 5:00 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Alec Burns » February 28th, 2013, 5:48 pm

Bill,

That's a very reasonable conclusion to make.

Alec

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 28th, 2013, 6:32 pm

Burns,

I am happy to see that you recognize the phenomenon of seeing only what you wish to see.

Perhaps you can use that knowledge to dissuade others on your forum from making accusations based on nothing, and stating supposition as fact. it seems a couple of people have tried to correct misinformation. I am happy to see you eager to do so for your own self serving ends - now how about doing the responsible thing and condemn those on your forum who have made claims without support?

And you fail to recognize that you don't get to tell a business how they get to run it. You are arrogant and assume you 'Know' the goals of those behind real secrets, and those goals MUST be the Same as yours, hence your presumptuous offer of 'advice.'

sorry charlie, homey don't play that.

If a company wants to require secrecy that is THEIR perogative. A year or forever. Sure, it will affect potential sales - but guess what - that's not YOUR problem to worry about

So instead if allowing adults to operate as they chose, and customers the right to choose to participate or not, you condone the destruction of their experience solely on the grounds that - what - you don't think they should be allowed to have it?!?

who the eff you double hockey sticks do you think you are?

if you want to join rs, join
if you don't, don't - and shut your pie hole

sure, if you can't go on living without talking about it, do. bitch all you want.

but why ruin the experience for those who are having fun? what do you gain? and with their money back guarantee, who are you protecting?

were you picked on as a child, because that's how you and your goon squad are acting.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4242
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby mrgoat » February 28th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Michael Jay wrote:
mrgoat wrote:
Richard Kaufman wrote:
Some background: Magic Bunny appears to be administered by Michael Jay, who has a habit of calling people who post things he doesn't like "retards."


Michael Jay is a complete tosser. He has no idea about magic. See if you can find some of his performance videos. he makes Mark Lewis look good. Really. He is embarrassing. Pathetic. Talentless. His is like a Scout Leader doing magic for children.

Magic Bunny was run by someone, who then stopped doing it. Michael Jay is like a homeless person with nothing to do so he got given admin on it. He is ridiculously bad.

If you saw him perform, you wouldn't waste two seconds on him.

"His" forum is full of idiots that make the cafe look like it is populated by geniuses.

I'm so grateful for this place. It is like kobe fillet. The magic bunny is like a 2 day old happy meal. Only talk magic is worse. And that is saying something!

And I'm accused of allowing libel on my forums. What a pathetic joke.

Mike.


Nothing libelous there. You are a worse performer than mark Lewis,

Why not post a video of you performing to show me wrong.

I bet you $500 you won't

Because you are appallingly untalented.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » February 28th, 2013, 6:42 pm

Perhaps he decline because he doesn't want his competition to know what materials he is doing, or his take on it.

that would be ironic.

I'm a magician. I deserve to know what every other magician knows and does. I demand jay post a video of his work immediately, that arrogant elitist he. How dare he not reveal everything!!!

PapaG
Posts: 241
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 2:57 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby PapaG » February 28th, 2013, 6:47 pm

This is pure kobe fillet.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4242
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby mrgoat » February 28th, 2013, 6:47 pm

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrMichaeljay1965

Brad, after you see his best work above, you'll understand why he wouldn't post it here.
He prefers the bunny where mark Lewis is still allowed to post.

Imagine a forum that welcomes mark Lewis. That speaks louder than his appalling magic performances.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets

Postby Brad Henderson » February 28th, 2013, 7:01 pm

Well, I like Mark. I know, I know. But I like you too, so clearly the problem is with me ;)

I poked around the bunny today and am amazed at how cliquish it seems - heaven forbid someone express an opinion contrary to some of their more vocal members. And for the number of posts, there was so little content. At least at the tragic cafe there is volume if not substance.

the thing I find most distressing is the owner/directors encouraging exposure. A secret is a secret - and you are either exposing it or not. I expect that behavior from
insecure half smarts posting below YouTube demonstrations. I would not expect it from people who, one assumes, would like to think of magic as an art, or at least, sonething worthy of respect.


ps. not fan of posting links to videos. Clearly this guy is an amateur, and that's cool. if magic brings him joy he should not be ridiculed for that. Sadly, not everyone feels that people should be allowed to enjoy their fun with this hobby. Just as I think it wrong for he and others to take away from the fun we have with real secrets, he shouldn't ridicule him for enjoying himself to the best of his a abilities.

I hoped my previous post conveyed they idea that it is reasonable for people to not want their performance material to be shared freely. it may have came off as an attack. I regret that.

someone can be very smart and a poor performer. I do not believe Michael jay is very smart.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4242
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby mrgoat » February 28th, 2013, 7:04 pm

I like mark too, but he is an undeniably appalling magician.

And yes, it's Iike talkmagic.co.uk

These funny title British magic forums with no one with any talent posting there all wanking each other off publicly.

They are hilarious places to read for a while, but as to any discussions of magic, yo actually are better off at the cafe. Imagine that.

Ian Kendall
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Ian Kendall » March 1st, 2013, 2:54 am

Technically, Mark is banned from the Bunny, but has an account on TalkMagic.

User avatar
mrgoat
Posts: 4242
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby mrgoat » March 1st, 2013, 5:08 am

True, my bad, I get those two confused because they have the same sort of level of very stupid bad magicians posting very stupid questions there.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » March 1st, 2013, 11:17 am

I love how the bunnies have elected themselves the secret police and get to decide what someone is allowed to keep secret and what they cannot. (this happens at the cafe - people get up in arms when the secret to a new marketed trick is alluded to, but it is fair game to deconstruct tricks presented in someone's act, who has not given permission for his material to be an object lesson for the jackals.) Their lack of respect for keeping an effect secret demonstrates none of them have any experience performing - oe have any desire to do more than the standard tricks which make audiences think of magic as merely a commodity. I guess when you have never tried to find or do something different, you can't possibly value that as a quality.

mr burns still fails to see how his entire position is built on the assumption that he knows what the best business model is, and the arrogance that all must use the model he approves. Again - same problem as above - predicated on belief that sameness is the goal. His insistence that reviews are required as a mechanism for unhappy customers again ignores the money back guarantee. these people are so full of hate they won't even allow themselves to acknowledge that mechanism exists!

But what I love the most is how these people have convinced themselves that even though none of them have any idea of what they are talking about - that it is those people who do who are completely off base. It's the equivalent of demanding that those who have seen a movie and liked it are completely wrong because the man in the alley - who was happy to sell bootleg copies - told
them it was a bad movie, even though he clearly called it a romantic comedy when really it was a procedural crime drama.

but burns is afraid to answer the questions posed above - why is he determined to ruin the fun a couple of hundred people are having? No one is forced to join. No one is forced to stay. There is a money back guarantee so there is no one to protect? So, alec, what do you hope to accomplish - how are you any different from the angry loner who pops the other kids' ball just because they are having fun?

What a sad little man, and a sad little place.

PapaG
Posts: 241
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 2:57 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby PapaG » March 1st, 2013, 1:37 pm

No secrets or methods have been tipped. Someone wasn't pleased with what they got for their money. You were. How does that spoil your 'fun'?

To use your analogy, if you went to see a film would the fact that someone else didn't enjoy it and gave it a poor review destroy your 'fun'? You need everyone on the same page as you to validate your experience?

And enough with the 'kids', 'loners', 'picked on as a child' theme b@llsh!t. All you're doing is degrading the 'art' and confirming widespread stereotypes about magic and it's practitioners.

For the record, I have no vested interest in RS one way or the other.

PapaG
Posts: 241
Joined: March 13th, 2008, 2:57 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby PapaG » March 1st, 2013, 1:40 pm

On a positive note, just renewing my Genii subscription. With the access to the archives and online features, this has to be, without doubt, the best bang for the buck in magic.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » March 1st, 2013, 1:56 pm

what you and the bunnies refuse to grasp, or are incapable of comprehending, is that the tricks ARE the secret, or at least a large part of it.

That's what we signed up for, and it's what we pledged to uphold. sure, YOU may not think the trick itself is worthy of being secret - but rs does and those who signed up do. So - what other motivation can exposure be than merely to pop the ball for those of us having fun

And your variation of the analogy is wrong - had you desired to be accurate it would have been 'why would you be upset if someone who didn't like the movie gave it a bad review announcing that Bruce Willis is already dead or that the mother is really Norman Bates, information which serves no purpose but to devalue the secrecy at the heart of the project and hinder any potential surprise those who subscribed might be able to convey to those for whom they might perform.

the behavior on the bunny is childish. And it is their behavior which empowers the stereotype - not calling attention to it

But maybe you will answer the question alec is afraid to: given no one is required to join, and there is a money back guarantee so their is no one to protect, what good comes of exposing the material paid for by others, others who are having fun performing tricks not google-able by every Tom dick and papag with a magic cafe account?

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27056
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 1st, 2013, 2:20 pm

Brad, please stop insulting people by name, with the exception of Michael Jay. :)
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
Matthew Field
Posts: 2846
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Slydini
Location: Hastings, England, UK

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Matthew Field » March 1st, 2013, 3:00 pm

Wait -- Bruce Willis is already dead??

Ian Kendall
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Ian Kendall » March 1st, 2013, 3:03 pm

Wait - Norman Bates is a mother?

Am I missing something here...?

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4770
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby erdnasephile » March 1st, 2013, 3:24 pm

This reminds me of the sad episode when a "friend" of mine in school ran up to me the week Star Trek II came out and said "Spock dies!" If only I had had a real phaser at the time...

Bill Mullins
Posts: 5913
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Bill Mullins » March 1st, 2013, 3:56 pm

He died? But he was just in the most recent ST movie . . . .

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27056
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 1st, 2013, 4:05 pm

I'd hate to be the person who's never watched Psycho of Sixth Sense and seen this thread first.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
AJM
Posts: 1530
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby AJM » March 1st, 2013, 4:08 pm

i'm planning to watch titanic at the weekend - everyone, please don't spoil it for me by telling me how it ends.

anyway, if you'll excuse me, i need to get back to looking for the key that allows me to type some letters in uppercase - brad, can you help?

andrew

Frank Yuen
Posts: 594
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Winfield, IL

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Frank Yuen » March 1st, 2013, 4:34 pm

AJM wrote:i'm planning to watch titanic at the weekend - everyone, please don't spoil it for me by telling me how it ends.

andrew


That happened to me with Lincoln.

User avatar
Tom Stone
Posts: 1521
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Tom Stone » March 1st, 2013, 4:35 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I'd hate to be the person who's never watched Psycho of Sixth Sense and seen this thread first.

Sixth Sense... they revealed the so-called surprise already in the movie trailer: -"I see dead people", says the kid and looks straight at Bruce Willis. One would have to be rather thick not to instantly figure out the ending. Rather pointless to watch the actual movie after that trailer.

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » March 1st, 2013, 5:06 pm

My iPhone is no longer Cooperating. It is currently making capitilization erratic. So, I figured if it worked for ee Cummings, and it's apparently the rage with the kids today ...

now it it would only let me move my voice memos onto the computer --- based on apple forum comments, this is impossible for some.

Ian Kendall
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Ian Kendall » March 1st, 2013, 5:22 pm

Ironically, that should be ee cummings...

Brad Henderson
Posts: 4547
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: austin, tx

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Brad Henderson » March 1st, 2013, 5:28 pm

that's my iPhone!

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 27056
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Richard Kaufman » March 1st, 2013, 5:35 pm

Tom, you must be smarter than the rest of us. Do you see dead people?
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

Ian Kendall
Posts: 2631
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Edinburgh
Contact:

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby Ian Kendall » March 1st, 2013, 5:45 pm

Ironically, that should be IphoNe...

User avatar
erdnasephile
Posts: 4770
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Who is renewing Real Secrets?

Postby erdnasephile » March 1st, 2013, 6:03 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:He died? But he was just in the most recent ST movie . . . .


That is NOT Spock! :grin:


Return to “Buzz”