The Genii Forum

Guys,

Those of you that enjoy gambling/card magic material might enjoy this:

http://shop.dananddave.com/magic-tricks ... ork-2.html

Thanks for looking!

Jason

Ordered!

Matt Field

Me too!

Andrew Murphy


P.S. - Matt, are you planning on doing any more button work?

Looks good. Can't go wrong with material from Jason or Paul.

Just oredered it for my own self. Right now (but only for a few more hours) at the D&D site, it comes with a copy of the first "Unreal Work." Such a deal!

So did I. The deal was to good to pass up. However, do not make the same mistake as I did. The price is only for streaming video. There will be an unknown premium for the DVD.

Hmmm...too late. Didn't notice that until just now (thanks). It's noted at the very bottom of the page and nowhere else. I think I might have an issue with that, unless I only need to pay for S&H for the DVDs.

Perhaps Jason or Paul will clear up the confusion as to whether or not the DVD's are included in the current purchase price on the website. And if not, what the premium will be for them.

I did see it before I pushed the button, but streaming is OK. Based on their reputation, I doubt D&D would try to charge double. But, as Chris says, maybe they could weigh in and clear things up.

"Available for immediate viewing from our streaming platform. All orders will receive a special code via email to upgrade to the DVD when it becomes available."

The word 'upgrade' would imply to me that an additional (not the full) cost will apply to those who purchased this and want the DVD. The $24.95 price tag for the steaming video of vol 2 seemed a fair price to me (and even more so that vol 1 was included for free.)

Cheers

Andrew

I'm at fault for not reading the entire page. But I do feel that it is streaming should be noted near the "add to cart" button and not just at the bottom of the "overview" which I didn't even bother reading because I didn't feel the need given the the guys on the video. I have little doubt that the material will be worth that price. As for the limited time free bonus of the first DVD (which I have), that was originally released on a shoestring (without a box), so I really wasn't expecting any extra bells & whistles on that. I was going to give my extra copy to a friend.

The Unreal Work 2 is an "on-demand" streaming video product.

The typical price for a single effect or sleight, in the current marketplace, ranges from $5 to $20 on average. Any one of the items on Unreal 2 could easily be marketed for $5 or more.

Unreal Work 2 includes over a dozen routines and sleights for $24.95 and was intended to offer excellent value at that price, for this kind of product.

A DVD may be produced at some point in the future and the "special code" will allow online purchasers to buy the DVD, directly from D&D, at a reduced price if they also want a hard copy. Remember, online viewers have permanent access to their video library at any time.

The original Unreal Work sold for around $30 so it's inclusion here should hopefully be seen as a real bonus.

The over-whelming response has been that the price and quality of material is not just fair, but a real bargain. That was our intention.

The short answer is that it is currently "on-demand" only but buyers will be offered any DVD release at a special price IF AND WHEN that happens.

Sorry for any confusion.

Best,

P

My only problem is that watching Jason England do Zarrow shuffls makes me want to kill myself.

Matt Field

I suppose the only way I can escape the well-known consequences of ASSuming something is to say that I presumed something. The problem with that is that it proves what a geezer I am.

Being old school, Im not used to dealing with the new school of streaming this or that (and at my age, not much streams anymore). I just presumed that when I saw something called Volume 2and volume 1 was a DVDand there is nothing clearly stating otherwise (for the benefit of geezers like me), that second volume was the same. But this is not the fault of the new paradigm, because the Dans and Daves and Theory 11s (etc.) of the world also presume that their clientele know going in that they serve up streaming this and that. If anything, theyd have to point out that something thats not streaming is a product that might be as quaint as a DVD.

As for the price, it certainly wouldnt be the first time that there was an honest-to-goodness bargain during a short window of a newly launched product.

Again, Ive no doubt that I will get my moneys worth. Ive certainly learned my lesson.

Dustin

I totally understand why creators are choosing to use streaming media as their distribution method. From a business standpoint, it most probably results in greater profit, better way to protect the material from pirates, etc. If I were them, I'd do exactly the same thing. More power to them.

The pricing model here also seems like an amazing deal, given the presumed quality of the material from two respected creators, plus the bonus DVD. I'll probably end up buying the package myself.

My only concern with the streaming model (not necessarily D & D, but in general) is: what happens to your investment if the company that distributes the material goes out of business? Unlike a physical book/DVD, it's seemingly gone forever. We've all seen too many businesses and performers go bankrupt in this cottage industry, so I wonder if the streaming companies have contingency plans for the material if they fold.

I suppose that one could say you are just renting the material for a period of time (i.e. from the time you buy for as long as the company stays afloat) or that you really ought to learn the stuff you buy right away.

However, looking around my office, I realize I don't know half the stuff I own, so it's not a realistic option.

It's also why I should probably stop buying stuff. (Fat chance!)

(FWIW, I meant no criticism by my remarks of D & D, Mr. England, or Mr. Wilson. Just musings from an old dude)

erdnasephile wrote:streaming media . . . probably results in . . . better way to protect the material from pirates, etc.

Not really. The torrent and piracy sites are full of material that has only been streamed, and never released as a DVD.

My only concern with the streaming model (not necessarily D & D, but in general) is: what happens to your investment if the company that distributes the material goes out of business? Unlike a physical book/DVD, it's seemingly gone forever. We've all seen too many businesses and performers go bankrupt in this cottage industry, so I wonder if the streaming companies have contingency plans for the material if they fold.

There are a number of browser add-ons and software packages that allow you to capture streaming media into an file that can be opened and played at leisure, off-line (which is likely the source of the pirated material mentioned above.)

Huh...I did not know that. I suppose no matter what you do technologically, there's always someone trying to ruin it.

(I still like books :) )

Still, I'm glad there are tools to allow legitimate users to back up their purchases.

I don't know the players here, but it seems so often that those engaged in copy protection rely on vague and misleading statements. As I write this, this is still on the site:

"Available for immediate viewing from our streaming platform. All orders will receive a special code via email to upgrade to the DVD when it becomes available."

That's the only place we can see it is a streaming product and now we're told that a DVD is only a possibility. I stay as far away as I can from copy protection.

I've been in the computer business a long time and I've seen enormous problems with activations, serial numbers, calling home etc, especially after a hard drive failure. Obviously there are times it's unavoidable e.g. Microsoft, but when there is a choice, I stay as far away as possible (and, yes, I'm fully capable of capturing a stream). I didn't even download the free trick from Magic this month do to copy protection / watermarking or whatever.

The concern with going out of business, mergers or selling is very real.

The apparently are selling a lot of them, so I guess I stand alone - not unusual, actually.

Are there encrypted streams you can't capture?

Very nice material in Vol 2. Have only glanced at Vol 1 so can't comment upon that.

Super cheap price for all the material you are getting.

The Unreal Work 2 has had a fantastic "opening weekend" with excellent reviews.

Thank you to everyone for your support.

We have decided to keep the special offer running for the whole week, so if you buy Unreal Work 2 , Unreal Work 1 comes free but will be posted as a separate item very soon.

Here's the link: http://shop.dananddave.com/the-unreal-work-2.html

This is the first product of the "Unreal Tour", which Jason and I embarked upon in August. Something else is coming next year - I'm currently reviewing all of the footage and I am genuinely excited to share it with you. Watch this space.

Best,

P

r paul wilson wrote:The Unreal Work 2 has had a fantastic "opening weekend" with excellent reviews.

Thank you to everyone for your support.

We have decided to keep the special offer running for the whole week, so if you buy Unreal Work 2 , Unreal Work 1 comes free but will be posted as a separate item very soon.

Here's the link: http://shop.dananddave.com/the-unreal-work-2.html.......

Best,

P

Paul,

I can't get past the fact that the link you use still has the following:

"Available for immediate viewing from our streaming platform. All orders will receive a special code via email to upgrade to the DVD when it becomes available."

while we're being told the production of the DVD is speculative. Am I missing something?

erdnasephile wrote:Are there encrypted streams you can't capture?

No. If you can see it on your computer you can capture it.

But only if your download speeds are sufficient to stream it smoothly. Mine aren't. I guess there is a sucker born every minute eh?

Wow! Really? If you're that disappointed just ask for a refund. Both volumes for $25 is a steal. Frankly, both volumes for $40 or $50 would have been a good deal for me. If that makes me a sucker then "I yam what I yam."

mwolfire wrote:But only if your download speeds are sufficient to stream it smoothly. Mine aren't. I guess there is a sucker born every minute eh?

Assuming your Internet access is DSL or Cable you might try viewing the videos at time when fewer other people are downloading information. Saturday and Sunday mornings are often less busy.

You might also consider using a connection at work (if corporate policy allows) or evan asking a friend. Together both videos would take less than two hours to view.

I'm about halfway through and am very pleased. I think you'll find it worth your while - even if you have to jump through a few more hoops to view them than most people :-)

I took the plunge, and although I'd selfishly rather not call more attention to this project, I gotta say: if you have any interest in the subject of the videos, buy this!

PS: I noticed that although no specific end date for the deal is listed, it says: "Purchase in the next 24 hours and receive the original cult classic released in 2005 on the house." Volume 1 will sell for $19.99 by itself according to the site.

You can also apparently save some money on the cost (5%) if you subscribe to the newsletter or save 15% if you purchase a year long membership to the site (which gives you a bunch of free videos as some neat extra savings).

Bob thanks much for the tips..and Evan I already have vol 1 on DVD so including that (on streaming video) adds no additional value. I am sure the content is well worth $25. That's why I bought it in the first place. But if I can't view the content then it's value is far less. Understand? And yes, If are willing to spend $50 on something you can't view then you are a bigger sucker than I.

mwolfire - I understand your issue with slow internet speeds.

I think you've convinced me that the DVD is still essential. I have pretty slow internet by comparison to many but can still watch anything i choose to stream though I have a friend who lives in the country and is stuck with the much slower speeds available to him.

If you enjoyed Volume 1, I'm sure you will enjoy Volume 2 when it comes out on disc.

P

mwolfire:
Some of the software packages referred to by Bill can still capture the stream for local viewing off your hard drive even if the streaming speed is not optimal.

It's not a perfect solution since you would have to purchase the software. However, at least that way, you could enjoy the video you already bought (which is terrific!).

r paul and erdnasephile, thanks much for your comments. I look forward to the DVD and will happily pay for the upgrade when it is available.
Mark

I purchased mine. Its worth the price just to watch Jason and Paul work the cards. If you are into cards and like to watch skill, Get this. $25 including the first series is a great buy

Another magic dealer (Andi'm not Joshing you) addresses the issue by burning the buyer's name into the video. The first time I ordered a download from them, I received an e-mail saying that my download "wasn't ready yet." Hmmm. Wonder what that's about? Then about an hour later I received another e-mail giving me the go-ahead. When I downloaded and played it, there was my name in the upper left corner throughout. So I received a blatantly personalized copy that can be instantly recognized should I try to set myself up in the illegal redistribution business. Not a bad approach for all concerned. I'm willing to wait a short time to download my purchase in exchange for getting to keep my copy of what I purchased locally.

With so many points for disruption/failure between source and destination, watching a streaming video will always be inferior to watching a download running directly on your device of choice.

But don't listen to Nathan! Just because this material is super first-rate and presented in an engaging way by legendary professionals as part of an amazing 2-for-1 package at an incredible price is no reason for you to buy it too like I did.

I don't think I'd like having a watermark added to a video purchase--especially in a conspicuos spot. Perhaps in the future, they might consider using one of those translucent logos of your name in the lower right (just like TV channels).

I've found while watching Volume 2 that one advantage DVD has over streaming is the ability to view in slow motion and step forward frame by frame. That is particularly useful for instructional videos such as this one.

Other people are licensing this watermarking technology from Andi Gladwin, so you're going to see more of it in the future.

erdnasephile wrote:I don't think I'd like having a watermark added to a video purchase--especially in a conspicuos spot. Perhaps in the future, they might consider using one of those translucent logos of your name in the lower right (just like TV channels).

I think it's horrible and ugly and a clumsy solution. It's also a piece of cake to obfusticate. Thus making it fairly pointless.

It's like buying a jacket and having to walk around with the security tag in.

There are other technologies that embed 2 pixels in random places that are invisible to the eye but lets the copyright owner identify the uploader in the same way.

Inferring EVERYONE who purchases from you is a wannabe thief is not a good way to do business, IMHO. And I told Andi as much.

Are you 100% certain that adding the name of the purchaser is the ONLY thing Andi's process alters on the video prior to releasing it?

And as far as inferring everyone to be a wannabe thief and it not being a reasonable business model is concerned, I wonder why the approach is taken by most retailers, airlines, etc.? The presumption is not that everyone is such a lowlife - only that there's a good chance that in any group there will be some (typically small) proportion that are. Can't imagine why anyone would be concerned when it comes to selling intellectual property to a group skilled in the art of illusion and deception.

I think copy protection is ultimately futile in terms of resources. (If they can break commercial DVD/Blu-ray encryption, they can break anything).

More than anything else, it inconveniences the honest person. (For example, Disney's latest Blu-ray, Brave, refuses to play on certain Blu-ray players due to it's new DRM scheme. Who does that hurt?)

I prefer Michael Close's approach.