Hank Lee

[El Harvey Oswald]

Not "fair enough." Constraining conversation only to officially adjudicated facts is preposterously limiting and, in any event, you just run into disputes about what is and is not a fact, disputes that are indistinguishable from those about whether an opinion strays too far from sound reasoning.

The urge to control others' expression always meets with frustration; but I won't bother trying to talk you out of it.

[Brad Henderson]

He admitted to being a thief so denial of 'fact' ceases to be relevant. And one can discuss all they wish about whatever they want. But in this case, For those condemning tom's post "Hank is a thief" says pretty much all one needs to know - the rest is merely color

[El Harvey Oswald]

People have actually denied his guilt, notwithstanding his own admission? That's certainly odd; though I don't quite see how it implies that's the only thing to talk about.

[Brad Henderson]

Harvey, my reply was in response to RE who attacked TOM for his contribution to the thread. He did not feel comments of that nature were appropriate. I think you and I are on the same page - I'm happy for people to talk about anything they want

however, to placate RE I suggested that he could ignore Tom's post and we can stick to an undeniable fact - Hank Lee is a thief. To my mind, that says a lot about who he is - heck, from a practical perspective, it tells me everything I really need to know. While RE can take issue with Tom's speculations, one cannot deny what Hank has admitted to doing. Whether or not he is bat [censored] crazy or faking it in an effort to get off lightly doesn't matter, really. The guy IS a thief.

Beyond that - everything is is just shading and color.

I'm cool with people talking about whatever - but for those LIKE RE who take issue with it, I just wanted to remind them - at the core - what we ARE dealing with.

[Kevin Connolly]

I'll go with 18 months in jail, 2 years probation and the money/fines being paid.

[Oddly Bent]

He got two years in the can

http://medford.patch.com/articles/magic ... card-fraud

[Pete McCabe]

I predicted three years. Off by one!

[Richard Kaufman]

As expected. And he'll probably have to sell both his houses to make restitution.

If any good comes out of this, it's simply that if there are any other magic dealers who've been doing this but haven't been caught yet, this is likely to deter them.

[Oddly Bent]

And it is too bad the Magic Dealers Association has not spoken up about this. The "good dealer" ethics espoused by the likes of Merv Talyor, Phil "Yogi" Thomas, Frances Ireland, et al, are sorely missed in this day of internet ripoffs. Sad for the community and HL.
I am not a member of MDA so I could not access their chat room, so this is all an assumption on my part.

[Richard Kaufman]

Does the MDA still exist?

[Oddly Bent]

Does the MDA still exist?

Yes, and they use to advertise in Genii...

http://www.magicdealers.com/

Maybe an inquiry to them will generate some advertising money for the mag.

[Tom Dobrowolski]

Interestingly Hank Lee is listed as a member, a few of the members listed I believe may no longerbe in business and a couple of the biggest, best dealers in the U.S. are not members.

[Larry Horowitz]

"Thus endeth the lecture"

[erdnasephile]

"Thus endeth the lecture"

Close, but not quite...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVz211iI26o

:)

[Ted M]

Fuller details on the sentence:

2 years in prison, 2 years probation, and he must pay full restitution for the $560,000+.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... story.html

[Ian Kendall]

I'm not convinced that RG had to put his house up for sale because of this loss...

[erdnasephile]

He actually did put it on the market (for 3.5)-- Re: his motivation, I'll take him at his word--half a mil gone would put a crimp in almost anyone's budget.

On a related note: given that the the reported max jail time for the original charges was 20 years and the prosecution was going for 2.5 after the guilty plea, I think the sentencing sounds pretty reasonable, IMHO.

[Brad Henderson]

Erdnasephile, When did rg tell you anything regarding his motivation for listing his house? Hank lee's theft was not the motivation for that decision.

There is a lot of misinformation here

[Ted M]

From the AP article linked above at boston.com:

"Authorities say Levy made 134 unauthorized charges on the wealthy customers card, forcing the victim to put his house on the market and complicating his efforts to finance a new business."

[R.E.Byrnes]

As RK notes, that's a pretty strong sentence, and it has to operate as a disincentive to others, to what must sometimes be the potent temptation to make easy money in the same way. A similar deterrence effect is why the sentences for insurance fraud are so severe.

[erdnasephile]

Hi, Brad:

My bad: I read this line in the Boston.com report: "Authorities say Levy made 134 unauthorized charges on the wealthy customers card, forcing the victim to put his house on the market and complicating his efforts to finance a new business."

I had assumed the report was accurate. No disrespect meant to RG--I don't know him personally, but I've always admired him since the Ultima days.

[Brad Henderson]

No worries. Just had no idea where that meme came from. Unfortunately one of the posts on this thread has misinformed many people and I did not want to see something like that happen again.

[Fenrick T Amazin]

Hank Lee illustrates an important magic lesson for us . . . the difference between a belief and a conviction:

http://www.themanxcomic.com/comic/cape-cod-convict-2/

[Kevin Connolly]

I was watching "Oddities" last night. It's the show about the the store that sells odd/ weird things. When I saw a customer's house with a Wellington Switchboard in his collection, I took a little closer look.

I was wondering if this was RG. I think it is. If it is, I can see this situation happening. From what I could see on the show, he was more than a decent and easy going person.

[Jim Maloney]

Yes, he was on Oddities not too long ago.

[Brad Henderson]

And at the risk of sounding too loyal to a friend - he IS one of the most decent easy going guys you could hope to meet.

[Kevin Connolly]

Thanks guys. That's the way he came across to me when I was watching the show.

[magicman1953]

I met him a few years ago and he was the nicest guy you would ever want to meet and have a chat with.

[El Harvey Oswald]

He's a good enough guy, though he never inspired me to superlatives like "nicest guy you'd ever want to meet." (Of course anything short of that risks being deemed "harsh" or "hating on" someone. "Nicest guy you'd ever want to meet" is the new "he's fine.")

And it's once again apparent that those who are cheating and deceiving are also most prone to mastering social niceties.

[mrgoat]

I met him a few years ago and he was the nicest guy you would ever want to meet and have a chat with.

All Ted Bundy's neighbours said he was a nice guy.

I think a basic skill you need to con people is to be thought of as nice.

[David Kaplan]

I think MagicMan's "nicest guy" comment referred to RG; not to Hank.

[Kevin Connolly]

I was watching "Oddities" last night. It's the show about the the store that sells odd/ weird things. When I saw a customer's house with a Wellington Switchboard in his collection, I took a little closer look.

I was wondering if this was RG. I think it is. If it is, I can see this situation happening. From what I could see on the show, he was more than a decent and easy going person.

The post above and the four that followed it were talking about RG, not Hank Lee.

[Richard Kaufman]

Yes, and now that Hank Lee has been sentenced, I see no further point in this discussion unless someone has some news to add, like the closure of his business or something like that.

[Joe Strauch]

Here is the latest, right from an email from Hank, it looks like the sentence does not start until Oct. 29, and the business is still going forward with 38% off sales. I wonder what they are selling? They always seem to be out of stock of everything.:

"Hank Lee's Magic Factory
Email Newsletter
Friday, September 7th


For me, the 6th of September will be etched into my memory for the rest of my life. It marked the end of a long and terrible road for me personally, for my family and for the company.
I want to thank all of you who have stuck by us through this horrible period. You are true friends. And, we all care deeply for you.
The judge says I must go away for a while. To think about what I did. As hard as this will be, I cannot disagree with her. But, nothing happens now until the 29th of October.
It is important to let you know that Hank Lees Magic Factory will continue to operate, with or without me, Hank Lee. The truth is, it will probably run better. Aron has been learning the ropes. And, with help from Steven and Don, he is doing a really good job. There have been some bumps in the road, of course. But, the learning curve is steep.
The good news for me is that the waiting is over. I have spent the past months with the Sword of Damocles hanging over my head. It has been a debilitating time. Now, I will face the punishment for my deeds, knowing that the punishment has both a beginning and an end.
Your job, should you accept it, is to help Aron and The Elves while they learn to fly on their own. I hope you will take the job seriously!
Now that thats over, I would be remiss if I didnt bring you a really good Excitement this week! So, read on."

[Richard Kaufman]

"The judge says I must go away for a while."

The last two words from that sentence are missing: "to jail"

[Roger M.]

Reading his email, he still seems to not fundamentally understand what he did as being disgustingly wrong, and that most people (if not all people) will heretofore judge him as a thief, plain and simple.

I can't recall a single communication from "Hank" that apologized to RG for robbing him blind, expressed personal regret beyond getting caught, and didn't end with an "exciting" effort to sell people some out-of-stock trick.

There's certainly nothing in any of his communique's that would indicate he's in any way on the road to redemption. Quite to the contrary, he appears to be in a massive state of denial.
He would appear to have a heck of a lot of work to do in the next two years behind bars.

He'd be quite wise to do that work, as the words "re-offender" don't often bode well that second time around.

[R.E.Byrnes]

There is rarely satisfaction with public expressions of contrition; either it's not sufficiently passionate or so fervent it's deemed obviously fake. This seems more a function of people not being able to let go of the flattering comparison between themselves and people going to jail than a genuine belief that he "fundamentally doesn't understand what he did. . .", whatever that means. And it's hardly an insight that those who get caught stealing are generally more upset at being caught than anything else. b.f.d. I neither see any indication that he's a recidivism risk or that this unspecified "work" assigned to him is anything but another vague, pious incantation. He's gong to jail for a fairly long time, and there will likely be other consequences, to his business, and perhaps his family. Enough, already, enough. . .

[Ted M]

I neither see any indication that he's a recidivism risk

Maybe you missed the many voices who've claimed that for years on end he's billed people for out-of-stock, "back-ordered" items that would never come back into stock and would never ship.

RG was just bigger in magnitude.

[Roger M.]

Sorry mate, you obviously thought I was putting my thoughts out there for you to pick apart with your (well written) pointless examination.

Thanks for coming out tonight, but I've already got all the insight I need.

There is rarely satisfaction with public expressions of contrition; either it's not sufficiently passionate or so fervent it's deemed obviously fake. This seems more a function of people not being able to let go of the flattering comparison between themselves and people going to jail than a genuine belief that he "fundamentally doesn't understand what he did. . .", whatever that means. And it's hardly an insight that those who get caught stealing are generally more upset at being caught than anything else. b.f.d. I neither see any indication that he's a recidivism risk or that this unspecified "work" assigned to him is anything but another vague, pious incantation. He's gong to jail for a fairly long time, and there will likely be other consequences, to his business, and perhaps his family. Enough, already, enough. . .

[Pete McCabe]

Let's stop using this thread to make ourselves feel superior to other people posting in this thread and return it to its natural function of making ourselves feel superior to that damned thief Hank Lee.