Did Houdini's sister live until 1982?

[JohnCox]

Ancestry.com says she did. But how could she have flow under the rader of all the major Houdini buffs of the day? My investigation below:

http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2011/09 ... weiss.html

[houdini's ghost]

Randi knew her pretty well. A lot of the guys knew her.
She lived in New Jersey as I recall. She was a great support to her nephew Mayer Weiss and according to Stanley Palm and Manny Weltman, she suggested to name "Major White."
Major White, Bill and Henriette Weiss' son, became a career
military doctor, a general in the Air Force and the head of Cardiology for the whole Pacific theatre.
I think I wrote (from Ancestry) that she died in 1882--but I couldn't find an exact date.

[Dustin Stinett]

Wouldn't a death certificate be readily available (at a price, of course) for someone who passed away in 1982?

[JohnCox]

As I wrote in the article, I'm prone to believe the 1959 death date from Meyer's book.

[West McDonough]

I'm no expert on Houdini's sister, but I've used Ancestry a lot over the years. Those profiles are not in the least reliable as a source. They're pretty much just what someone says, and the majority of them are not documented well, if at all. People go on there and info-dump anything they ever saw anywhere, without double checking, and there are errors all over the place. They can be useful as a place to get names that one can then go research oneself, but my assumption if I see something there that contradicts the evidence is that the Ancestry profile is in error.

Because this one has her dying at precisely 100 years old, I suspect that someone somewhere at some time had that in as a guesstimate, because they did not know the precise date. Some genealogy programs used to automatically use an age of 100 if the death date was not known, though they clearly marked it as a guesstimate (usually the date would have been written as "before 1982." People share genealogical information all the time, and errors spread. What probably happened is that someone else saw someone's data with that guesstimate and wrote it in their own data as a hard date. Others copied it from them, and before you know it, the misinformation is everywhere.

This is why no serious genealogy will accept Ancestry profiles as a legitimate source. I tend not even to look at them unless I'm seriously stuck and looking for a suggestion of where to look. I just use Ancestry for the scans of primary source records.

[houdini's ghost]

Not this time, West!

I got Carrie Gladys' death year not on Ancestry but from the New York State death index. The year--and again this is New York State talking not me--was in my book, but, her death was listed as among those in a (I think) three month period and I could never find the actual date anywhere.
Give or take, we both know you can't take anything on the internet at face value. Whatever it is you have to fact check it, and then fact check it again--and again.
Patrick

I had trouble finding the actual date of death of Houdini's brother, Bill, too. I believe I arrived at January, 1926. I can't remember whether I finally got the day or not.

[West McDonough]

Now, if it was in the NY State death index, that's actually considered to be a reliable source :)

[JohnCox]

So you got the 1972 date from the NY State death index, Patrick? Oh my. That adds a new wrinkle.

[houdini's ghost]

I just took a look in my book. I had listed the dates and places of all the Weiss children. I wrote Carrie Gladys Weiss died Oct, 1972. That's as close as I could get.
Where did the 1882 date show up?
I remember I also got a date for Bessie's death that was a year earlier than I had understood and I published that. I later thought it was a mistake--and Ancestry does make mistakes--lots of them. And I do too, but I was trying not to.
Right now, I don't know.
Nothing about Houdini's sister dying in Genii, Linking Ring, MUM, or the N.Y. Times.

[houdini's ghost]

Look, John, I can't bring myself to open Houdini--the Key because I spent too much time with it.
But, you should have have looked Carrie Gladys up in the Key. She's in the index and that will lead you to her dates.
Had you done that, you could have simply said: Patrick says in the Key that she died in 1972--and there would have been none of this did she live to 100 nonsense.
I can honestly say that I spent at least a three or four hours (spread out over three years) trying to find her exact date of death(and other info about her).
Considering that many people knew her when she died and yet nobody I can find so far reported it in the magic magazines.
There may have been one mention, after the fact, that she had died.
It appears that she had been out of circulation for awhile.

[JohnCox]

You're right Pat, I should have included your date from The Key. Sorry about that. (I thought I sent you an email about this when I was working it up?) I've updated the story with the info and an apology.

I think it's pretty clear in my article that I don't buy the 1982 date, but that's what it said on Ancestry and that was my way into the story -- opening the door to the mystery of Gladys and her death. 1941, 1958, 1959, 1972, 1982 -- no one has really laid down conclusive evidence for any of these dates. Unless you got '72 from the NYC Death Index. That's pretty conclusive. But are you saying you don't remember exactly where you got it?

I also did this article very quickly. I was really just responding to Ann and throwing out what I knew to help her research. I had no idea it would catch fire like this.

[houdini's ghost]

First of all, John, didn't you see the Duke in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon?"
"Don't ever apologize, sign of weakness."
I did get it from the New York State death index so I'm reasonably sure--reasonably sure. As I say, it was a long hunt. Randi knew her.
Where did 1941 come from? and 1958, 1959--and especially 1982?
Does everybody know about Joan Crawford's role on the old Batman series?

[JohnCox]

Dean Carnegie said he found a 1941 listing on Ancestry along with two notations for the 1982 date. But he admits some of these might be a different Carrie Gladys Weiss. I think we can forget the '41 date as there is evidence she and Leo are alive in the 50s.

Ann Etheridge posted an update on my story saying she contacted the person who posted the '82 date and he said he had no documentation for it and is going to remove it. (So I think we can write that one off as well.) I think West might be onto something when he said some ancestry programs automatically put a death at 100 years when there isn't other information.

1958 comes from Benjilini (no source), 1959 comes from Meyer (who cites hospital records), and you have 1972.

[David Byron]

Here's where you're likely to find the answer:
[url=http://www.ssdmf.com/Library/InfoManage/Guide.asp?FolderID=104&SessionID={269F7E3C-EF3B-44E7-8803-807FEC40EF90}&RLMsg=&SP=]Social Security Death Master File[/url]

[David Byron]

It appears she was a trustee of, or donor to, the Met in 1930 (one of many), that she and Leo renewed the copyright to MatS in 1951, and that she renewed the copyright on Paper magic in 1951.

So she was definitely alive until at least 1951! :D

[JFox]

Does everybody know about Joan Crawford's role on the old Batman series?
_____________________________________________________________

No, Patrick - do tell!

[John M. Dale]

Does everybody know about Joan Crawford's role on the old Batman series?
_____________________________________________________________

No, Patrick - do tell!

Joan Crawford was never on the old Batman TV show. John Crawford was and apparently a typo in a book about the show that changed the "h" in his first name to an "a" started this myth.

JMD

[Stetson]

You might be thinking of Tallulah Bankhead on the Batman show.

[houdini's ghost]

No. One guy made a typo and instead correctly crediting "John Crawford"--who was my fellow member of the Irwin Allen stock company. He had played a lot of roles--serial fans know him as "Chuck" in the "Blackhawk" serial (with Kirk Alyn).
I first met him on the "Billy the Kid" episode of "Time Tunnel."
So, somebody was writing an episode guide to the series and wrote "Joan" instead of John.
The info spread like a virus creating a "misunderstanding" that persisted for years.
Why can't I find anything on Ask Alex about Carrie Gladys Weiss dying? Randi knew her. Somebody ask Randi.
Now I can't even find the N.Y. State Death Index on Ancestry. Ancestry is much more muddled now than when I belonged.

[houdini's ghost]

Leopold made it to October, 1962. N.Y. Times ays he was 83.
Wasn't Carrie a late surprise in the Weiss family. Somebody called her that.
http://www.intervalmagic.com/houdinimus ... 10.07.html

[houdini's ghost]

The 1930 Federal Census lists a Carrie Gladys Weiss in N.Y. and says she was born about 1892.

[Leonard Hevia]

Yes, Carrie was a late surprise. According to Manny Weltman's Houdini: Escape Into Legend, she was "A "change of life" baby, coming twelve years after the birth of her last child." Weltman has her born on January 22, 1892.

[Leonard Hevia]

I messed up. Weltman has it on 1891.

[houdini's ghost]

Bernard Meyer has Carrie Gladys born in 1892!

[houdini's ghost]

She said she was a ghost writer. She said her mother was born in France. She died in 1959. Bernard Meyer looked at the hospital records--but did he have the right Gladys Weiss?