So, How was MAGIC Live?

[Roger M.]

So fare we've examined offensive, and unoffensive.

How about just plain lame?

Really, does anybody think white folks pretending to be from another ethnic group didn't originate in Minstrel Shows?
So Hobson is performing material which was considered timely and appropriate in the era of the Minstrel Show........and this is supposed to resonate somehow as appropriate contemporary humor?

The sashaying gay portrayal is only slightly more modern, but equally as offensive, and culminates with the Don Rickles, Milton Berle, Jack Benny era.
And there are folks around who think this is funny still?

So, Hobson (in his hit-and-run post above) basically thinks he's personally relevant and funny by the act of performing unoriginal, racially and socially offensive material ranging in age from a couple of decades out of date, to over a century out of date?

Hardly something I'd be bragging about on the Genii forum.

[Chris Aguilar]

After watching that youtube clip of Hobson, he lost me with the farting and toilet paper gags.

My three year old daughter, however, found it hilarious.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Anyone else think it's an hommage to Paul Lynde?

[Bill McFadden]

I've only seen Jeff Hobson perform once: as the MC for a World Magic Seminar show back in the earlier part of this decade. Without any previous knowledge of the performer, I assumed he was a gay man whose character is an over-the-top gay man (i.e. Paul Lynde, Rip Taylor). He did a pretty funny Elton John send-up, and overall, I thought he was one of the best acts in the show. Had I known he is straight, I would have been very uncomfortable with his portrayal. Context is everything.

[Steve Bryant]

FWIW ... (and not much in this context) a review. I especially enjoyed the opening sentence to the last paragraph. The reviewer apparently doesn't know the folks at the Genii forum.

[Ian Kendall]

Re the review; is it ironic, or serendipity, that one of the two large ads on the page is for Gay Day at Anheim...

[Bill McFadden]

Thanks for that review, Steve. Had I been there, I'm sure I would have spontaneously and instinctively joined the standing O. Sounds like CoW is all a modern theatrical magic production should be.

Disclaimer: No sarcasm was utilized in the above post.

[Richard Kaufman]

Newspapers in Las Vegas are not known for their cutting-edge critiques or intellectual rigor.

[erdnasephile]

As a white southern male I find Larry The Cable Guys portrayal of the stereotypical white southern backwater hick to be hilarious.

I'm glad you like Larry and have no issues with the stereotype. Many people probably feel the same.

However, with respect, there is a qualitative difference here.

The problem with minority stereotypes in particular is that there are still parts of this country where the majority rarely interacts in a meaningful way with those of another ethnicity.

Therefore, when they see negative minority stereotypes (even those as over-the-top as Hobson's), believe it or not, some folks internalize them, and sometimes use them to justify their ignorant words and deeds.

For example: remember when a UCLA Coed released this video:

Asians in the Library rant

Most of you would hopefully dismiss this person as a racist nincompoop. However, when the original video was posted, there were many vile comments posting how this woman was just "telling like it is" and "they're just like that". In effect, the negative depiction of Asians gave others the tacit permission to spew their venom.

One could argue that it just doesn't matter what anyone says, racist people are going to be racist anyway. Fair enough.

However, by legitimizing the public mocking of ethnic groups, our culture can unwittingly create an environment where it becomes acceptable to see minorities not as individuals, but as a group.

Once you see them as a group with negative characteristics, they become "them" as opposed to "us". At that point, it's a whole lot easier to discriminate against them, both in blatant and in subtle ways. If you doubt this, please see the less savory aspects of the current debate on immigration.

Will Hobson's performances lead to racism? Surely not. Is he meanspirited? Not in my opinion--he seems like a nice guy, and is talented and thoughtful about his magic--I respect that a lot. I do not believe that he (or the majority of his fans) are racist.

However, as a US citizen and the proud descendant of WWII and Vietnam vets, every time I get asked by a person at work: "Aren't there any Americans around here?", it reminds me of why it's important for me to speak out.

[John Signa]

Re the review; is it ironic, or serendipity, that one of the two large ads on the page is for Gay Day at Anheim...

I think you may be missing the forest through the trees.
The critique is coming from a gay/lesbian newspaper.

[Jim Riser]

Is the blond in the library rant video a stereotype? Are blond bimbos individuals or a group? What makes a blond a bimbo? Not all blonds are bimbos. Is this young lady setting herself up as some sort of target for comedians? Would she deserve to be a target? Are air heads in general (as a group) acceptable targets? So many questions! The biggest might be how did this gal find her way to a library and what was she doing there? Perhaps looking for free wi-fi or a date?
Jim

[Jonathan Pendragon]

Jim, I resent that.

[Ian Kendall]

"The critique is coming from a gay/lesbian newspaper."

Missed that. And it would explain things...

[Jim Riser]

Jim, I resent that.

Jonathan, which part?

[Jonathan Pendragon]

Jim
No part, I was just being a sarcastic blond.

[Jim Riser]

Jonathan;
I thought it might have been the "not all blonds are bimbos" statement!

Take care. :)
Jim

[Terry]

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php ... y_incorrec

Has anyone bothered to watch Dean Martin's old roast specials? People of various colors, backgrounds and genders all taking shots at each other. No one got their shorts in such a tight bunch.

Being from KY, did/do I get offended when anyone tells hillbilly jokes? No, mainly because I don't take myself or place of residence too seriously. That, and most hit so close to truth about KY, they are funny.

[Richard Kaufman]

What was acceptable in the days of Dean Martin's old TV show, now 40 years ago, is not acceptable now.

As far as Kentucky jokes, well that's just too easy. Let's say I won't make any jokes about hillbilly incest if you don't make any Jew jokes. :)

[hugmagic]

So why is the stuff on the Simpson's considered acceptable?

I think this PC stuff is way overboard.

Richard

[jason156]

What was acceptable in the days of Dean Martin's old TV show, now 40 years ago, is not acceptable now.

As far as Kentucky jokes, well that's just too easy. Let's say I won't make any jokes about hillbilly incest if you don't make any Jew jokes. :)

I just watched one the old Dean Martin roasts and I found it to be very funny. How can you not laugh at the timeless comedy of Foster Brooks, Nipsey Russell, Ruth Buzzi, Phyllis Diller, Jack Benny and many more.

If I want to hear hillbilly jokes I'll watch Larry The Cable Guy, If I want to hear Jewish jokes I'll watch Sarah Silverman, If I want to hear jokes about homosexuals or kids with cancer I'll watch Ricky Gervais. In the end, you really can make jokes about anything.

Personally, I hope Hobson keeps packing the theaters and laughing all the way to the bank.

[Richard Kaufman]

Just as some people in Hobson's audiences laugh at his racist and homophobic caricatures, there are others who find them offensive. Nothing is going to change anytime soon and it will only be when the folks in corporate America who hire acts like Hobson's get the message that he will no longer find work. And then he'll stop. Until then, nothing we write here will change what he does.

[mrgoat]

If I want to hear hillbilly jokes I'll watch Larry The Cable Guy, If I want to hear Jewish jokes I'll watch Sarah Silverman, If I want to hear jokes about homosexuals or kids with cancer I'll watch Ricky Gervais. In the end, you really can make jokes about anything.

Difference is, those guys are FUNNY. Hobson is a lame hack.

I love Sarah Silverman. "I got raped by my doctor last week. Which is so bittersweet for a Jewish girl." Offensive, and hilarious.

Hobson pretending he is a flamboyant homosexual just ISN'T FUNNY.

[Rick Ruhl]

Jim
No part, I was just being a sarcastic blond.

yes you are ;)

[Brad Henderson]

Goat, do you think the audience who gave him a standing ovation agrees?

[Richard Kaufman]

No, obviously the audience that gave him a standing ovation DISagrees--they thought he was funny.

Hobson, we should note, is funny to magicians. I'm not sure how well he fares in the real world. He's been in many shows in Vegas, all of which were announced with much fanfare and seemed to have closed soon thereafter with little notice.

[Brad Henderson]

Richard, do you not find it disingenuous to suggest Hobson does not go over with real audiences in one post while completely dismissing a positive critical review from a lay audience member in another?

I saw Hobson perform at the palladium in London. He was also well received there as well.

Is there something personal, beyond the issues being discussed, that motivates your distaste for his work?

[Richard Kaufman]

I don't know Jeff Hobson, so there's nothing personal involved. Actually, I forgot completely about that review when making my comment.

I'm waiting for the Brad Henderson act done in blackface at the Apollo Theater. Perhaps when you see the audience's reaction you'll get it.

[Brad Henderson]

My comment was meant to address the obvious conflict between proclamations that Hobson is NOT funny and the strong reactions he has received both in performance as well as critically, from magicians, lay people, and in the case referenced above, from the audience who should be offended. While I appreciate your blackface hypothetical, I think we need to give deference to voices from those who - if the pronouncements made here are correct - should be offended.

I am neither Asian nor gay, so I cannot say what will or should offend an Asian or gay person. To do so seems a tad presumptuous and more than misguided. It seems to me that a review in a magazine targeting the gay and lesbian community easily trumps any speculation or righteous moral indignation we
might choose to express here.

[Dustin Stinett]

I'm not sure how well he fares in the real world.

Okay, I'm going to give this thread a Steve Howe kind of last chance (a baseball reference):

Of the many times I have seen Hobson, only once was the audience comprised of magicians (at an A-1 convention some years ago). The rest have all been for a lay audience. He always scores very well.

I believe it's worth noting that the review posted earlier was not just on Hobson, but on "Carnival of Wonders," which, I believe, is one of the best illusion shows of my generation. Unless you have seen it, commenting on it--or reviews on it--seems disingenuous to me. And YouTube clips do not count.

I also see that someone noted that the source of the review is a gay/lesbian newspaper. But no one--until now (thank you Brad)--has bothered to note that IF the gay community were "offended" by Mr. Hobson's character, one might think that it would be noted in a gay/lesbian media source. However, I have no doubt that the gay community is comforted by the notion that some heterosexual magicians are offended for them.

I have been conversing on the topic of Mr. Hobson with a dear friend who is gay. He is not offended by his character, finds him to be "hilarious," and, most importantly, knows him personally and can say that Mr. Hobson is not a homophobe.

He also believes that I am wrong regarding my belief that the character's sexuality is ambiguous. "There's not a straight bone in his body," [I'm not sure if a pun was intended or not]. However, he also could not fully answer my question about the lines that I believe create the confusion. He recommended asking Hobson. "He might enjoy talking about the development of his character."

Now there's a thought.

Dustin

[mrgoat]

Goat, do you think the audience who gave him a standing ovation agrees?

McDonalds and The X Factor are popular. Justin Beiber is popular.

People are idiots.

[Pete McCabe]

For me the deciding factor is always whether the performer is just making fun of gays and asians and hillbillies and donkey trainers, or or they making fun of gays and asians and hillbillies and donkey trainers and themselves. As long as they make fun of themselves I'm okay with it.

It sounds like at least one of Hobson's bits (I'm not, I was, but I'm not, but I would for you, or something like that was mentioned) is including himself in the joke.

At that point the question becomes are you doing something new? I mean, the lisping gay person and buck-toothed asian are pretty old themes. Most of the stuff you see on those topics is very hack.

[Ted M]

The key is where the power sits.

When the strong/privileged/supported mock those with less power, it's a public abuse of power.

For audience members belonging to that strong group who have compassion and empathy, that generally isn't entertaining. Others in the privileged group apparently take pleasure from watching the strong abuse the weak.

For audience members belonging to the weaker group being abused, it can be excruciating, as they are being publicly abused by proxy.

Hobson's case is tricky. If an audience perceives Hobson as gay, then he's not seen as mocking others with less power than himself.

Audiences know Hobson is clearly not Asian, and according to folks here, that part of his act falls far flatter. I suspect that if audiences knew up front that Hobson is in fact straight, his gay minstrel show character would be received very, very differently.

Of course beyond awareness of the feelings evoked by power dynamics, you still need wit, timing, etc to have a chance at being perceived as funny.

[Master Payne]

One of the questions that I dont believe has been adequately addressed is, is Hobson really making fun of gays or is he just assuming the role of one? For myself I dont think hes making fun of them at all. In fact his whole demeanor is rather tame compared to some of the ber flamboyant gays you can see in other shows. Heck, every contestant thats ever been on Ru Pauls Drag Race makes Hobson at his most extreme look straight.
Thus the comparison to him and black face minstrels falls flat. Minstrel Shows presented and reinforced a stylized stereotype of black people. Much of it in a demeaning manner.
Would Hobson be acting an differently if he really was gay? I for one dont think so. Would anyone be raising a stink if he actually was gay. Doubtful. But have a straight man act like a gay man might onstage and then it is some how wrong? Does one actually have to be Jewish to play Shylock? Black to portray Othello? Its called acting guys and theres far too little of it taking place in the magic world these days.
Houdin once said that the magician is an actor portraying the part of a wizard. Sometimes that wizard is gay.

[Bill McFadden]

Excellent points raised by all. The "Steve Howe factor" - Dustin, yer the greatest!

I really didn't want to bring this up, but for me it all begs the question of why a straight man would create and use a gay showbiz persona in the first place.

[mrgoat]

I really didn't want to bring this up, but for me it all begs the question of why a straight man would create and use a gay showbiz persona in the first place.

To get a cheap laugh?

[Master Payne]

Excellent points raised by all. The "Steve Howe factor" - Dustin, yer the greatest!

I really didn't want to bring this up, but for me it all begs the question of why a straight man would create and use a gay showbiz persona in the first place.

Hobson told us how he initially came up with the character at his talk in the general session. It was quite by accident. He was working Comedy Clubs in the 80s. His wife at the time thought that he should wear a rhinestone tie to one of his gigs. Against his better judgment he did so. A couple of large biker types in the club started heckling him because they thought only a gay guy would wear a rhinestone tie. At first Hobson tried to tell them that no, he wasnt gay. This then turned into well I might be gay which eventually lead to the character we see today. At least thats how I remember him telling it.

[Ted M]

From Payne: is Hobson really making fun of gays or is he just assuming the role of one?

What exactly is "the role of a gay person" like? What does it mean to act like a gay person? Some self-present with flamboyance, but for millions of gay people every day, it means acting an awful lot like a straight person. And there's a whole range in between.

From Payne: the comparison to him and black face minstrels falls flat. Minstrel Shows presented and reinforced a stylized stereotype of black people.

Er, Hobson is presenting and reinforcing a particular stylized stereotype of gay men.

From Payne: Would Hobson be acting an differently if he really was gay?

Are you suggesting that a gay actor would only play a flamboyantly gay character? The film and theater industries -- and the daily lives of millions of gays -- demonstrate otherwise.

[Doug Thornton]

We interrupt this discussion with a quick clip from last night's Late Show With David Letterman (It's a minute and a half, and yes, I think it's funny.)
(There's a commercial first.)

http://www.cbs.com/late_night/late_show ... &play=true