So, How was MAGIC Live?

Discuss the latest news and rumors in the magic world.
West McDonough
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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby West McDonough » August 27th, 2011, 1:41 am

So he's being an offensive parody of bisexuals instead of homosexuals? Doesn't make me like it any more, I'm afraid.

Mr. Hobson was quoted in an interview saying that he stopped worrying about whether he was being offensive to Asians when he looked out at the audience and saw some Asians laughing hysterically at his fake-Chinese character.


I suspect "magic ears" at work here.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Diego » August 27th, 2011, 1:45 am

I had not seen Hobson do his stuff since The Magic Castle 15+ years ago, where I saw 2 Asian couples quietly walk out, with a Jewish couple who later said, "I wouldn't tolerate that for me, why should I for them?!"
The trouble is they left quietly.
The reality is that anti-Asian mongering/doing demeaning stereotypes of Asians, (American or otherwise) is still the politically correct/acceptable racism among too many.

After Wednesday's show, I asked a number of attendees-Asian, Jewish, Gay, South-American, Irish: was I crazy or was I the only one who found it offensive? They said no, they agreed.
What if Hobson had put on a skull cap, and thick glasses with a fake hook nose and did a fake Yiddish accent?
Or went out in blackface and shuffled while trying to sound like Stepin Fetchit ?

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Diego » August 27th, 2011, 1:51 am

From "Jersey Boys":
"Remember in the early 1960's, Liberace was (not acknowledged as gay) considered, flamboyant "

The wonderful Charles Nelson Reilly was a flamboyant, off the wall personality, but he never, (on broadcast television anyway) did it with sexual overtones...of his or anyone else's.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Matthew Field » August 27th, 2011, 4:31 am

Offensive, in my opinion. But I seem to hold the minority view (no pun intended) about his act over here in the UK.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby mrgoat » August 27th, 2011, 5:15 am

Dustin Stinett wrote:How can the undeniable fact that these lines are part of his script--used countless times--be denied?


Art is interpreted by different people in different ways Dustin. It isn't 'wrong', and suggesting someone's opinion is wrong is a little rude.

It is just different from yours.

You think there are some lines there to make it look like he is in fact a big hetrosexual. RK thinks that those lines do not achieve that.

You could also look at a picture and feel different things. Or a song. Art is subjective.

I wonder if Hobson would have the balls to do it at a Gay Pride event. I doubt it. And that, really, is the clue to this being offensive and out of date.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Matthew Field » August 27th, 2011, 7:52 am

I remember a chap (who shall here remain nameless) competing in a Magic Circle Stage Magician of the Year contest 5 or so years ago, doing a mock-Chinese magician. He nearly got booed off the stage. He couldn't understand why -- he'd been doing that act for 20 years.

20 years ago, maybe a bit more, these things were acceptible -- I'm thinking of Buddy Hackett's Chinese Waiter act.

But, like "Amos & Andy", these things change in acceptability as times, and social mores, change. Dumb blonde? Women drivers? Woe betide the performer who fails to recognize this shift in society's values.

Hobson is a fine magician. I understand his reluctance to give up his bread and butter act. But it's an embarrassment for me to watch it.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Steve Bryant » August 27th, 2011, 8:20 am

About .001 percent of this discussion has anything to do with what Hobson did at MAGIC Live! Carnival of Wonders was a huge hit and Hobson was one of the reasons. I share some of the opinions of his past performances, but those were not what he did last week. He was playing a character in a play written by Jim Steinmeyer. From Mark Walker's review in MAGIC August 2009: "Speaking of Steinmeyer, what really makes this show tick is Jim's wonderful script. It ties everything together with a big red bow and allows the production to work as an entertaining concept, rather than being just another hodgepodge illusion show with some talentless magician rushing about from one trick to another and rock music blaring in the background. This show is like a great wine; it's mean to be savored and enjoyed. It has meaning and real sincerity. I have to admit, I've never experienced anything like this at a regular magic show."

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Matthew Field » August 27th, 2011, 8:45 am

You're right, Steve. As I said, Hobson is a very talented performer.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby MaxNY » August 27th, 2011, 10:23 am

Chinese? I thought he was making fun of Ali Bongo.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby West McDonough » August 27th, 2011, 8:38 pm

I don't know, I have no problem believing Jim wrote the overall concept and structure, which I enjoyed quite a bit. But did he actually write the faux-Chinese piece and the jokes that left me (and others) feeling distinctly uncomfortable? That seems unlike him. I would guess, rather, that he left a structure into which Hobson inserted his own material... but then I don't know that for a fact. You could be right, but if so, I'm surprised.

I'm not referring to Hobson's past at all, because I never saw him in the past. My reaction to him in this show is to seeing him for the first time. I enjoyed other parts of the show quite a bit, but much of Hobson's portion left me stone-faced.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 27th, 2011, 8:48 pm

Jim did not write those parts of Hobson's act, and he doesn't think much of them.
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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Dustin Stinett » August 27th, 2011, 8:58 pm

mrgoat wrote:You think there are some lines there to make it look like he is in fact a big hetrosexual.

I never once said or even implied that. Not one single time. Ever. To tell me what I wrote or think is rude--particularly when you are factually wrong!

So I will ask again: What could those words that are part of his script designed to do if not meant to create ambiguity?

I'll continue to wait for an answer to that question.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 27th, 2011, 9:21 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5bSdtqi ... re=related

Those pants go beyond Sadowitz, but not in a good way. See what happens when you cross Doctor Suess with Las Vegas by way of San Francisco.

The box trick (Steinmeyer?) looks great. Looks like a Harbin meets Jarrett thing. Bravo!

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Dustin Stinett » August 27th, 2011, 10:05 pm

Yes, that is Steinmeyer's Pop Art, which (relative to the age of the show) is a new addition to "Carnival of Wonders."

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Doug Thornton » August 27th, 2011, 10:40 pm

That piece was not presented in the MAGIC Live performance. It was seen when they were in Atlantic City last year.
Interestingly, after that video, another pops up - a kid in his kitchen presenting "Jeff Hobson's Caucasian Box".
Ouch! What does that add to the controversy?

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby mrgoat » August 28th, 2011, 6:11 am

Dustin Stinett wrote:So I will ask again: What could those words that are part of his script designed to do if not meant to create ambiguity?

I'll continue to wait for an answer to that question.


They could be designed to make people like you not think he is a disgusting homophobe.

He could then get apologists explaining that simply by ONCE saying he had a wife he could carry on being obviously offensive to gay men.

Kind of like saying "I'm not racist, one of my friends is black".

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Dustin Stinett » August 28th, 2011, 7:28 am

Again, ignoring the other facts and making an assumptionin fact making an accusationbased purely on an emotional response to only that which you want to see. Poorly argued, goat. But I'm not surprised. And, once again, implying I said something I didn't. I'm also not surprised by that. It's the one thing you are quite good at.

I am done with this (and you, goat: your mere presence here offends me). But I will reiterate my argument one last time which is based on all of the available facts; not an emotional one that takes only some of the factsthose that support an emotional argumentinto consideration:

Hobson's character is an exaggeration of homosexual stereotypes in both act and action. He "prances" and "swishes" and wears glittery costumes. He ogles men and appears to come on to them.

But then he also makes references to his wife, his children (is she a beard? Hmmmwe dont know [theres a key phrase for you to ignore: we dont know]), his current sexual preference, though with a possible willingness to make an exception given the right circumstances.

All of this, of course, is done in a comic fashion. Granted, it makes some people uncomfortable, but so did George Carlin and Richard Pryor (of course, they were funnier).

But it all also adds up to an ambiguity (since we dont know) in his stage character that is by design and not accident. Nor do I believe it is for some nefarious reason, such as to cover up some hidden personal character flaw of the man himself. That's just nonsense. If it were even remotely true, I dont think Hobson would have been able to do the act for as many decades as he has.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Travis » August 28th, 2011, 7:52 am

The Steinmeyer illusion is called 'Op-Art', not 'Pop-Art'.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Steve Bryant » August 28th, 2011, 8:27 am

It would be the most boring-ass comedy club in the world if the comics had to adhere to the rules this board is espousing, with jokes fit only for Reader's Digest or the back page of your Sunday School bulletin. Give me offensive any day to the sanctimonious crap I am reading here. I'm off to watch The Aristocrats.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby mrgoat » August 28th, 2011, 8:48 am

Steve Bryant wrote:It would be the most boring-ass comedy club in the world if the comics had to adhere to the rules this board is espousing, with jokes fit only for Reader's Digest or the back page of your Sunday School bulletin. Give me offensive any day to the sanctimonious crap I am reading here.


I hear you, but it's about being funny.

George Carlin was funny and clever and offensive. Mincing about pretending to be a flamboyant homosexual isn't clever comedy. It's crude, it's easy and it's cheap.

Andrew Dice Clay, not funny. Just shouty.
Sadowitz, rude, not funny.

Be as offensive as possible. But remember to be funny too.

Interesting bit from the guardian about this subject:

I will never forget the very scary moment I experienced at a stand-up gig a few years ago. A man in the front row had made the mistake of telling Scott Capurro, high priest of bad taste, that he worked in child protection.

"Do you put the kids to bed at night?" Capurro asked. Yes, the man said he did. "Do you help them put on their pyjamas?" Yes. "Do you ever stroke them a little, just to say good night? Do you ever, you know, want to do a little bit more ...?" By now the man had stopped answering. The laughter had been replaced by tense silence. But Capurro prodded ever onwards, his victim growing more red in the face. I remember bracing myself for the violence that seemed about to break out at any moment.

What Capurro was doing was obvious to everyone in the room. He did not really believe that the man wanted to abuse the children in his care, he was only suggesting as much because it was the most dangerously tasteless thing he could think of. As well as being funny about Islam, paedophilia and the Holocaust, Capurro was asking us all an important question: am I allowed to say this?

It is the question that it has always been comedy's job to ask. And though the likes of Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor and Jerry Sadowitz have never ceased to chip away at the boundaries of taste, the last decade, in particular, has been a golden age for the comedy of offence. South Park, the Office, Sacha Baron Cohen, Extras and Little Britain have all thrived by turning taboo subjects into mainstream entertainment, while the likes of Capurro, Brendon Burns, Stewart Lee and Doug Stanhope have provided some of the stand-up circuit's best, and most dangerous, laughs.

And yet, for the first time, I find myself wondering whether the offensive comedy boom might have run its course - not because it is going out of fashion, but quite the opposite: because everybody's doing it. Graphic sexual descriptions and mockery of sacred cows are now so de rigeur among new acts coming through that many of them seem clearly quite uncomfortable with their own lines. Some themes, about which one supposedly cannot talk, seem to be almost compulsory. For instance, I have lost count of the number of shows I have seen this year (it is certainly the majority) which make fun out of the Madeleine McCann case.

As a result, even the more polished performers are suffering. Though Jim Jeffries has clearly not lost his power to shock - he was attacked on stage in April by a man who took offence at his remarks about paedophilic grandparents - the shocks he delivers this year have lost most of their power to make me laugh. Brendon Burns, whose act I have loved in the past, has built his whole show around the idea of offensiveness. So weary of the subject have I become, that I don't think I am going to go.

I should stress that I have no problem at all with supposedly tasteless gags. On the contrary, I fear I may have enjoyed them too much over the years. It's just that every joke has a sell-by date.

Eras must end, and new ones must begin. Indeed, what greater sign of success can a comic wish for than seeing the taboos he bashes start to disappear? "You have to be so careful what you say nowadays," said Scott Capurro at the end of his act, having avoided violence by a whisker. Perhaps soon, because of his act and others, we will all be able to speak a bit more freely.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/theatre ... offensivec

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Stan Willis » August 28th, 2011, 9:11 am

We just experienced to catastropnic events here on the East Coast,definitely a Sign of the Times and yet.......
It's also past midnight for those individuals who choose to make profit or gain at the expense of other ethnicities or preferences.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Steve Bryant » August 28th, 2011, 9:17 am

I have seen Hobson not be funny. But he was funny at MAGIC Live. Extremely funny. It was his one-liners that killed, not his sashaying around. Very clever stuff, tied to his carnival barker character. An overwhelming percentage of the audience thought so. He was one of the big hits of the convention. So why the hatchet job from the stay-at-homes who didn't see this and don't want to believe it? Indeed, it would be easier to attack the lines that Michael Weber and Derek Hughes uttered, but, they too were screamingly funny. Potentially offensive to child abusers and women, but quite funny.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby mrgoat » August 28th, 2011, 11:24 am

Steve Bryant wrote:So why the hatchet job from the stay-at-homes


I relish this ridiculous argument. So, Mr Bryant, how many restaurant critics do you know that also own eating establishments? How many film critics make movies? How many theatre critics are directors or actors. Oh yes, none.

I don't see why staying at home precludes one from saying that homophobic stereotyping isn't funny?

And it's not a hatchet job, it's simply pointing out that pouncing round a stage getting cheap laughs via mocking effeminate homosexual men isn't clever nor is it creative, nor is it smart in this day and age.

I repeat, do you think he'd black up and do a show in Compton? Of course not. He'd be shot. Have a think about why that is.

Carlin is one of my favourite comics. I have most of his stuff. I love offensive comedy. But the clue in that phrase is comedy. Hackneyed one liners that are more from the era of John Inman is lazy and cheap.

And even though I stayed at home, I am entitled to that opinion. Equally so, I would defend to the death your right to think a man mocking camp gay men is funny. Each to his own. But don't chastise me for having the audacity to have a differing opinion to you about taking the piss out of gay men.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Brad Henderson » August 28th, 2011, 1:33 pm

While I agree that one need not 'do' the thing in order to be qualified to criticize it, I think steve's point in reference to the 'stay at home's' may be that one should at least 'see' the thing one is criticizing in order to be qualified to pass judgement ie hobson's performance at magic live.

Having been there I will say that his performance was very well received by the audience and he earned both a considerable number of hearty laughs during the performance, and a strong ovation at the bow. I did not sense any tension in the room during either of his character portrayals, though several people did comment strongly and negatively regarding the Chinese portrayal afterwards

As to comments regarding live as a whole, I thought it was a very solid convention and a great value for one's investment. I too feel the registration issue needs to be reconsidered. Way too long of a wait, and it has always been this way.

The only 'negative' I would offer is that, with perhaps the exception of the sawing show, there were no real 'highlights' to the event - those, wow you had to be there kind of moments. Having said that, this was one of the, if not the, most consistently positive convention I can recall. .

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 28th, 2011, 2:05 pm

How can there be "WOW-You-Had-to-Be-There" events when everything was done multiple times? Those types of "magical" moments usually involve some sort of spontaneous electricity in the air, and lightening rarely strikes twice, and certainly not twice in succession.

As far as Hobson, stereotypes are an easy laugh, like pulling your pants down.
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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Brad Henderson » August 28th, 2011, 2:11 pm

I agree that part of the problem came from the two track organization, though I know for many the sawing show (presented twice) did manage to qualify as one of those moments.

Hobson's laughs transcended mere pull your pants down humor. To paint all of laughs he received in this show as resulting solely from that one easy conceit would be both unfair and innacurrate.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Jeff Hobson » August 28th, 2011, 2:18 pm

I happen to be here 'cause a friend told me that this subject was being talked about by magicians. What a hoot!

To start with, I will only be posting this and not replying to further talks 'cause I rarely get into these discussions and frankly don't have the time.

Someone wrote:
"wonder if Hobson would have the balls to do it at a Gay Pride event. I doubt it. And that, really, is the clue to this being offensive and out of date."

Wrong. I have turned down more gay events over the years than I can remember. The reason I don't do them is obvious . . . I don't need a date after the show.

I still do these lines/jokes/characters because 99% of people still think it's hilarious. These people still understand the word "joke". I don't present anything I do as malicious or mean-spirited and people realize that. If I didn't do the character, and was just another magician, then I wouldn't be working they way I've been for decades. I rather offend 1% of the public (insert your name), than to wallow in the grand mediocrity that is most of the magic/entertainment done today.

You won't find many full-time pros critical of what I do - most are envious. Look at the majority of those opposed to what I do. . . yes, they're side-liners. And magazine editors.

I've never given a rats behind what anyone thinks, especially magicians. Never will. If people stop hiring me to do what I do. . . I'll stop it. So, far, my calendar is just fine. THAT's the real gauge and clue. If you see me homeless on the side of the road, then you can say, "See, I told you so". Until then, enjoy your knitting-club gossip.

My thanks to those of you who "get it".

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby mrgoat » August 28th, 2011, 2:38 pm

Jeff Hobson wrote:I've never given a rats behind what anyone thinks, especially magicians.


No clearly, which is why you didn't just post a hit and run rant about how you think everyone that thinks mocking gay people is a cheap, easy, crude and blunt way to get a laugh are all idiots and don't 'get' the comedic genius of mincing about and putting an effeminate voice on.

:D

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Bill McFadden » August 28th, 2011, 2:57 pm

I'm finally beginning to understand why laymen don't seem to "get it" when I do my killer handling of "No Tickee, No Shirtee".

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Richard Kaufman » August 28th, 2011, 8:33 pm

"Knitting-club gossip" is another cliched stereotype.
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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » August 28th, 2011, 8:50 pm

Pandering to the prejudices and baser instincts of ones audience?
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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Tom Stone » August 28th, 2011, 8:56 pm

Jeff Hobson wrote:If people stop hiring me to do what I do. . . I'll stop it. So, far, my calendar is just fine. THAT's the real gauge and clue.

True, there will always be a market for prolefeed.

Makes me think of Jan O. Jansson a.k.a. Naken-Janne (Nudity-Janne), a "star" from one of the docusoaps over here who had a lot of nightclub bookings after the show ended. The main part of his act was to undress completely, stand on one leg and do "the helicopter" with his genitals. He also had a full calendar, and I suppose, as you say, that is the "real gauge" for quality entertainment.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby West McDonough » August 28th, 2011, 9:08 pm

FWIW, I am not posting from the perspective of a "stay at home" I was there. And, as I said the first time I posted, there did seem to be many in the audience who loved the act. I didn't. The people I was with didn't. But many others did.

Am I advocating some sort of "rules" that say you can't do this sort of act? Of course not. I am an ardent supporter of the first amendment. As someone else said, "I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." All I'm saying is that I, for one, found the jokes increasingly distasteful as the evening progressed, and by the end it seriously marred my enjoyment of an otherwise excellent show.

I also thought that Hobson was obviously good enough, both as a magician and an entertainer, that I suspect he can do a great show without resorting to the cheap and easy stereotypes. I'd love to see that show. I'm a little sad that I didn't.

I did not comment on Michael Weber or Derek Hughes because I did not see either of them.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby skeptic555 » August 28th, 2011, 11:47 pm

I've enjoyed this discussion. I heard an interesting comment on the nature of comedy - that being, its the only art form that a critic can simply "will" out of existence. A poorly sung song, is, after all, still music. A theater critic can savage a play, but at the end of the day, it may be a crappy play, but indeed a play it remains. However, someone who doesn't find something to their comedic tastes can - and often will - declare "that's NOT COMEDY!". ..as if it does not exist at all.

To this forum's credit, that really didn't go on here. So good for us.

That said, I was at Magic Live, and at the first Carnival of Wonders show. To my ear, Hobson KILLED in that room. People were howling. Not saying that makes it right, but to frame this discussion, it didn't go over well, it went over like gangbusters. The chinese act a little less so, but that also suffered the mics cutting out, which absolutely affected the momentum and the flow.

I personally didn't find it offensive, as I give an especially wide berth to the performing arts. Things that are not OK in pleasant company, or in a corporate environment *can* be OK under the auspices of the theater. Maybe a bit like an extension of "suspension of disbelief" to "suspension of societal bounds." Sometimes to make a point (Carlin, Pryor, Hicks, "Archie Bunker"), and sometimes not (Dice Clay, Jackie Martling, Gilbert Gottfried, Larry the cable guy).

I loved Hobson. In a purely platonic way. (see what I did there?)

I can see why he performs this act. I heard the reaction with my own ears. Of course everyone is entitled to their own reaction, and because something is popular doesnt make it "right." But in the world of theatrical license, I'd put Hobson WELL inside the lines. And funny as hell.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby jason156 » August 29th, 2011, 12:40 am

Good for you Mr. Hobson for standing your ground. What exactly is it that people don't get about your (and others) brand of comedy? As a white southern male I find Larry The Cable Guys portrayal of the stereotypical white southern backwater hick to be hilarious.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Diego » August 29th, 2011, 3:06 am

From 1968 Bill Cosby-narrated documentary, about Stepin Fetchit-like charecters in movies: "What millions of movie goers never seemed to know or care, was that these portrayals made us sick to our stomachs."

As one who was at MagicLive, the problem was that that many, (like the above post) didn't have a problem with his "Chinese" charecter, and DID enjoy it....AND this was not an after Midnight/Adult, don't attend-if-you-are easily offended, Buddy Hackett or Redd Foxx audience, but a general family,(?!) audience at a magic show.

As Hobson mentioned in his hit and run post, he has used "the charecter", (no allbays to say Chinese/Asian) for years to his profit. He knows he could NOT do the same for a Jewish/Black/Hispanic/Handicapped charecter, as he knows he couldn't get away with it...and lose his teeth and career in the process. He says he doesn't care if "1%", (OR 10+%?) is offended, "fill in the blanks: Jews
Blacks
Hispanics
Handicapped
__________?
Are they among those he also doesn't care about? Probably not if he could get away with it to make money.

He cowardly DOES do it with a "Chinese" stereotype, because he knows that is one group that can't fight back and hold him accountable, that he can still profit from, to the delight of those 99% in his full calender of dates.

Until the cowardly putz goes on stage and demeans any of the other groups listed in this post in a like manner, like his blurt and run post, he will keep running.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby mrgoat » August 29th, 2011, 5:02 am

Having watched him now, I'm not sure it's *that* offensive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ozq5miyEXA

Sure, the fart gag is cheap, and the wig isn't very convincing but despite being very camp and mincing about the stage, he isn't *too* offensive.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Rick Ruhl » August 29th, 2011, 9:01 am

Comedy has always been based on the hurting or insulting of someone or something. It's our nature to laugh at the outragious.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby Ted M » August 29th, 2011, 11:13 am

That's an extraordinarily limited view of comedy.

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Re: So, How was MAGIC Live?

Postby mrgoat » August 29th, 2011, 11:48 am

Rick Ruhl wrote:Comedy has always been based on the hurting or insulting of someone or something. It's our nature to laugh at the outragious.



What utter bollocks.

Comedy has been based on making people laugh. Sure, sometimes that involves mocking people, as has been proved by www.twitter.com/fakepaulgordon

But you can be CLEVER about it. Or WITTY. Mocking queenie homosexuals is about as base, crass and pointless as the fart gag he did when the spectator nice enough to be half of his act receives during the balls over the head.

Seriously, on that video is it a wig, or just really bad hair dye?


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