Pat Metheny on Magic

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Bill Evans
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Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bill Evans » May 18th, 2010, 12:11 pm

Well, not really. However, artists are artists, and I found this short quote interesting and I thought you might also. It's from "The Pat Metheny Interviews" by Richard Niles (Hal Leonard, 2009, p.88). After referencing the fine line between dedication and obsession in his own study of jazz, he makes the following statement: [for fun, you can substitute "magician" for "musician" if you like]:

"People are quick to recognize the benefit that comes from dedication, and are willing to let a lot of other things slide - whatever behavior that might be wrapped up with this. That's why you see so many wacky kinds of musicians floating around with all sorts of odd personality quirks, yet are allowed those quirks by their friends and family. The quirks in themselves have become a lifestyle for lots of people who really don't have that much going on as musicians! That's an interesting post-Beat Generation phenomenon. We have people now who are all about the pose with none of the actual content."

Gotta love Pat. As one of the most influential and successful jazz artists over the past 40 years, he never fails to tell it like it is (if you are a Kenny G fan, don't research his opinion on that issue).

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bob Farmer » May 18th, 2010, 12:43 pm

The Kenny G comments are right on the money. I once asked a guy who used to work for Kenny G's management company how Mr. G's band stayed awake during his performances.

"Fifteen hundred a week and first-class hotel rooms," was the reply.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby mrgoat » May 18th, 2010, 12:43 pm

So he doesn't like playing card ties and d'lites then?

:)

Great post.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bill Evans » May 18th, 2010, 4:15 pm

If you go to amazon.com through the link on this forum [;)] you can purchase this book for $13.99 and let me assure you that if you respond to theory in the Burger/Hass/Vernon context, this might be one the best magic books you will buy this year. I'm not kidding. Just pretend that it is Eugene Burger or Jon Racherbaumer writing this post and not me. A short disclaimer...I will be the first to admit that I am a better musician than magician. A Db9#5 comes a lot easier to me than a riffle cull, even though I try to put as much energy into both. However, even though it was a beautiful music connection that brought me to this book, I couldn't stop thinking about magic theory as I was reading it. Although these interviews are about playing jazz as opposed to doing close up magic [or any magic for that matter], they are extremely enlightening. Unless you are into Metheny's music, the first 80 pages will probably not interest you. However, from then on, the book is pure gold with chapters such as Communication, Dedication/Obsession, Advice, Self Criticism, Pressure and Preparation, Marathon Gigging, Art and Reality-Jazz and Entertainment, The Ability to Identify, Taste vs Chops, and The Future [which has a very interesting comparison of music to politics...wow]. I have always thought that the more you know about things other than magic, the better magician you can become. Most of the books Eugene Burger reads have nothing to do with magic at all, and I believe that is the same with Jon Racherbaumer from what he writes. Those that think this way will be the ones that will benefit the most from this book. I will leave you with one last quote to see if this is for you:

Richard Niles: Here's another quotation for you. (I know you love these!). Quenton Crisp said, "To have style is to be yourself but on purpose."

Pat Metheny: Well, one of my favorite quotes that has so much resonance for me I continue its place on the top of the charts is: "The things that are the most personal ultimately become the most universal." Which I think fits very well with what you just said. And I really believe that's true, that the more deeply you can understand the things that you care about and that you love in music, the closer you'll be to being able to be an effective ally of music to the people who might be out there listening to you."



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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bill McFadden » May 18th, 2010, 8:32 pm

Bill, many thanks for sharing this. Although I'm not a musician, I am a dedicated listener. Have been for over 40 years. I have long maintained that the study of magic is comparable to the study of jazz.

On the other hand, one rather expects an artist of Metheny's caliber to express things as he does. The parallels are sometimes stunning.

Don't get me started on my Vernon/Ellington comparisons . . .

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Todd Lassen » May 19th, 2010, 11:29 pm

Anyone see his Orchestrion show that he is doing now? He was just in Boulder and Denver, but I was a little reluctant to check it out...something was saying a little too ambient for my likes, but that my not be true.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby James Cotton » May 20th, 2010, 8:35 am

Pat Metheny's best interview ever occurred when he was asked about Kenny G. Enjoy:

Pat Metheny on Kenny G
Question:

Pat, could you tell us your opinion about Kenny G - it appears you were quoted as being less than enthusiastic about him and his music. I would say that most of the serious music listeners in the world would not find your opinion surprising or unlikely - but you were vocal about it for the first time. You are generally supportive of other musicians it seems.
Pat's Answer:

Kenny G is not a musician I really had much of an opinion about at all until recently. There was not much about the way he played that interested me one way or the other either live or on records.

I first heard him a number of years ago playing as a sideman with Jeff Lorber when they opened a concert for my band. My impression was that he was someone who had spent a fair amount of time listening to the more pop oriented sax players of that time, like Grover Washington or David Sanborn, but was not really an advanced player, even in that style. He had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble - Lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms of actual music.

But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, played horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.

Of course, I am aware of what he has played since, the success it has had, and the controversy that has surrounded him among musicians and serious listeners. This controversy seems to be largely fueled by the fact that he sells an enormous amount of records while not being anywhere near a really great player in relation to the standards that have been set on his instrument over the past sixty or seventy years. And honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially, especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisors and musicians in general have trouble just making a living. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are simply better improvising musicians than Kenny G on his chosen instruments. It would really surprise me if even he disagreed with that statement.

Having said that, it has gotten me to thinking lately why so many jazz musicians (myself included, given the right "bait" of a question, as I will explain later) and audiences have gone so far as to say that what he is playing is not even jazz at all. Stepping back for a minute, if we examine the way he plays, especially if one can remove the actual improvising from the often mundane background environment that it is delivered in, we see that his saxophone style is in fact clearly in the tradition of the kind of playing that most reasonably objective listeners WOULD normally quantify as being jazz. It's just that as jazz or even as music in a general sense, with these standards in mind, it is simply not up to the level of playing that we historically associate with professional improvising musicians. So, lately I have been advocating that we go ahead and just include it under the word jazz - since pretty much of the rest of the world OUTSIDE of the jazz community does anyway - and let the chips fall where they may.

And after all, why he should be judged by any other standard, why he should be exempt from that that all other serious musicians on his instrument are judged by if they attempt to use their abilities in an improvisational context playing with a rhythm section as he does? He SHOULD be compared to John Coltrane or Wayne Shorter, for instance, on his abilities (or lack thereof) to play the soprano saxophone and his success (or lack thereof) at finding a way to deploy that instrument in an ensemble in order to accurately gauge his abilities and put them in the context of his instrument's legacy and potential.

As a composer of even eighth note based music, he SHOULD be compared to Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver or even Grover Washington. Suffice it to say, on all above counts, at this point in his development, he wouldn't fare well.

But, like I said at the top, this relatively benign view was all "until recently".

Not long ago, Kenny G put out a recording where he overdubbed himself on top of a 30+ year old Louis Armstrong record, the track "What a Wonderful World". With this single move, Kenny G became one of the few people on earth I can say that I really can't use at all - as a man, for his incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as a musician, for presuming to share the stage with the single most important figure in our music.

This type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead performers - was weird when Natalie Cole did it with her dad on "Unforgettable" a few years ago, but it was her dad. When Tony Bennett did it with Billie Holiday it was bizarre, but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the 20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic accomplishment. When Larry Coryell presumed to overdub himself on top of a Wes Montgomery track, I lost a lot of the respect that I ever had for him - and I have to seriously question the fact that I did have respect for someone who could turn out to have such unbelievably bad taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal heroes.

But when Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, [censored] up playing all over one of the great Louis's tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible. He, in one move, through his unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, [censored] all over the graves of all the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going out there on the road for years and years developing their own music inspired by the standards of grace that Louis Armstrong brought to every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician. By disrespecting Louis, his legacy and by default, everyone who has ever tried to do something positive with improvised music and what it can be, Kenny G has created a new low point in modern culture - something that we all should be totally embarrassed about - and afraid of. We ignore this, "let it slide", at our own peril.

His callous disregard for the larger issues of what this crass gesture implies is exacerbated by the fact that the only reason he possibly have for doing something this inherently wrong (on both human and musical terms) was for the record sales and the money it would bring.

Since that record came out - in protest, as insignificant as it may be, I encourage everyone to boycott Kenny G recordings, concerts and anything he is associated with. If asked about Kenny G, I will diss him and his music with the same passion that is in evidence in this little essay.

Normally, I feel that musicians all have a hard enough time, regardless of their level, just trying to play good and don't really benefit from public criticism, particularly from their fellow players. but, this is different.

There ARE some things that are sacred - and amongst any musician that has ever attempted to address jazz at even the most basic of levels, Louis Armstrong and his music is hallowed ground. To ignore this trespass is to agree that NOTHING any musician has attempted to do with their life in music has any intrinsic value - and I refuse to do that. (I am also amazed that there HASN'T already been an outcry against this among music critics - where ARE they on this?????!?!?!?!, magazines, etc.). Everything I said here is exactly the same as what I would say to Gorelick if I ever saw him in person. and if I ever DO see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)

NOTE: this post is partially in response to the comments that people have made regarding a short video interview excerpt with me that was posted on the internet taken from a tv show for young people (kind of like MTV)in poland where i was asked to address 8 to 11 year old kids on terms that they could understand about jazz. while enthusiastically describing the virtues of this great area of music, i was encouraging the kids to find and listen to some of the greats in the music and not to get confused by the sometimes overwhelming volume of music that falls under the jazz umbrella. i went on to say that i think that for instance, kenny g plays the dumbest music on the planet something that all 8 to 11 year kids on the planet already intrinsically know, as anyone who has ever spent any time around kids that age could confirm - so it gave us some common ground for the rest of the discussion. (ADDENDUM: the only thing wrong with the statement that i made was that i did not include the rest of the known universe.) the fact that this clip was released so far out of the context that it was delivered in is a drag, but it is now done. (its unauthorized release out of context like that is symptomatic of the new electronically interconnected culture that we now live in - where pretty much anything anyone anywhere has ever said or done has the potential to become common public property at any time.) i was surprised by the polish people putting this clip up so far away from the use that it was intended -really just for the attention - with no explanation of the show it was made for - they (the polish people in general) used to be so hip and would have been unlikely candidates to do something like that before, but i guess everything is changing there like it is everywhere else. the only other thing that surprised me in the aftermath of the release of this little interview is that ANYONE would be even a little bit surprised that i would say such a thing, given the reality of mr. gs music. this makes me want to go practice about 10 times harder, because that suggests to me that i am not getting my own musical message across clearly enough - which to me, in every single way and intention is diametrically opposed to what Kenny G seems to be after.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 20th, 2010, 10:58 am

Glad he walked around the notions of pandering to a dumbed down audience and the profitability of such.

Wonder what he thinks of John Tesh or Yani?

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Pete McCabe » May 20th, 2010, 11:34 pm

I met Kenny G's, and I home-schooled his son Max for a year. He's incredibly nice and the most unaffected unbelievably-rich person I've ever met. So I'm biased.

But I've always thought Methany's rant was insane, and insanely egomaniacal. He decides that Louis Armstrong has some unique place in Jazz, and then expects that everyone in the world will automatically have the exact same opinion. For Kenny G to duetize any other artist would be okay, but when it's Louis Armstrong that's somehow magically different, in a way that Methany seems to think has some sort of objective reality.

You don't like Kenny G's music. Okay. You hate it, even. Fine. Don't listen to it. I don't listen to it much myself. But to call for a boycott because he did a tribute to Louis Armstrong seems like ego of the highest order.

It all seems to be based on the idea that Kenny G should know that he is not good enough to attach himself to Louis Armstrong's work. And that, because he must know this, he is deliberately insulting Louis Armstrong. The whole thing serves only to feed Methany's ego.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby James Cotton » May 21st, 2010, 2:02 am

Pete, you have a declared conflict of interest in this debate. You have a personal relationship with the subject and you also appear not to know much about the professional jazz scene.

Kenny G duetizing Armstrong (or Peterson or Evans or Davis or any great musician) is as offensive in the jazz scene as stealing and publishing someone else's material or act would be in the magic scene.

You clearly don't have any context regarding the pro music scene, so you'll just have to take my word on this. Kenny G may be a nice guy, but he is not respected by serious musicians because he is a third rate talent who did a bad, egotistical thing. He is respected (publicly) by people who make money off his enterprise, of course.

Anyway, I think I'll buy that Metheny interview book. Looks very interesting.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bob Farmer » May 21st, 2010, 7:01 am

Pete: To quote a bumper sticker I once saw -- Accordions don't play "Lady of Spain," accordionists do -- nobody's saying Kenny G isn't a nice guy, it's his musical choices we're attacking.

Louis Armstrong is considered by the vast majority of people who consider this sort of thing to be one of the greatest musicians of all time and one of the premier stars of jazz. Unfortunately, in his later years, he was probably better known as the guy who sang "Wonderful World" and appeared with a lot of much less talented musicians (maybe if he was alive he would have played with Kenny The G -- a man's got to make a living).

Thinking of magical parallels: I have reworked Dai Vernon tricks, but in doing so, I've always thought I was working them out for my style, not somehow insulting the memory of Vernon -- however, I realize others may disagree.

Last night, I got out my tenor sax and wailed over an mp3 of Kenny G playing, "The Wedding Song." Then I dubbed in a heavy metal guitar riff (Ibanez into Randall stack). I will post this on the Kenny G fan site and wait for the retaliation.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Tom Ladshaw » May 21st, 2010, 8:59 am

Don't remember which comedian originally said it, but it went something like this:

"The only reason they put Kenny G's records in the 'Jazz' section is because there's no 'Crap' section."

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 21st, 2010, 9:32 am

Some folks don't care to distinguish fine cuisine from baby food. It fills the hole.

Maybe it is difficut to distinguish ones opinion of a kindly person who produces works in a craft with the opinions of others in that field of the works produced by that person.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby P.T. Murphy » May 21st, 2010, 10:36 am

Bob Farmer wrote:Then I dubbed in a heavy metal guitar riff (Ibanez into Randall stack). I will post this on the Kenny G fan site and wait for the retaliation.


Ibanez through a Randall? Bob Farmer you are the SHREDMASTER GENERAL! :)
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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bob Farmer » May 21st, 2010, 12:01 pm

I humbly accept the accolades and go now to turn my other amp -- a Mesa Boogie Mark IV -- to 11, channel 3, and let the shred tremors destroy every molecule of the memory of the Kenny who was the G, but now is just the Z -- as in zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 21st, 2010, 12:38 pm

Bob, if Kenny G's work serves as an effective and reliable soporific - what's the issue? Or is there no catagory in Jazz yet for that? Jazz-trance?
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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Kent Gunn » May 21st, 2010, 12:46 pm

The Kenny G thing . . .

It's just like magic. The best magicians don't necessarily have the biggest careers. I'm not calling anyone out as the Kenny G of magic. My snark machine is broken this week. I'll bet some here have their own choices though.

Innovators and true masters of any art are often overlooked by the masses. We don't even really have but a small handful of magicians the world know anything about. Copperfield, Penn and Teller, David Blaine and Angel are the only names I can think of that are in the public consciousness.

Jazz musicians are in the same predicament. Ask you average man on the street to name five Jazz musicians and many toss Kenny G into that pot. All the names I'd come up with are dead, but I'm an old guy.

Say the name Dai Vernon or Art Tatum to the man on the street and they have no idea who you mean. To aficionados of close-up magic or jazz piano you will get tears welling up in their eyes or a great story of how they actually got to see/hear a live performance. We know what Vernon and Tatum left behind, their legacies are beyond description. To most . . . they're dead guys.

We love what we love. With a modicum of knowledge about the mechanics of an art we get to make more informed decisions. If you played a band instrument as a kid in high school you know Kenny G isn't someone to emulate as a technical performer. He simply doesn't have cool chops.

I can think of some magicians with solid careers that don't do technically demanding things but entertain the living [censored] out of a room of people. Like Kenny G, they've found ways to interact with their audience that have led them to successful careers. There is nothing wrong with Kenny G being a financial success.

When he played over the Louie Armstrong recording that was [censored]. Most live musicians I know aren't real fond of the whole sampling/stealing thing anyway. The recorded works of the dead ought to be sacred, dammit. It's kind of like Mormons baptizing dead Holocaust victims that didn't want to be Mormons in life. It's just wrong.

Nobody alive is good enough to play with the memory of Louie Armstrong, nobody.

It's like someone took video of Cardini's act and photo-shopped their face over his.

I'm a hack magician, but a fair musician. Just had to stop in here and ramble. Kenny G simply isn't a jazz musician. He's pop saxophone player that's not a bad thing. I'm jealous of his success. If he desecrates any of my favorite pianny-players, I'm going after him.

KG

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 21st, 2010, 1:01 pm

And just what does it take to move the masses?
And what are you willing to do in order to accomplish this?

I like this funhouse mirror dialog.
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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bill McFadden » May 21st, 2010, 1:55 pm

The debate among musicians and fans concerning "real" jazz vs. "smooth" jazz is not a new one. For decades, the argument centers around artistic integrity in opposition to commercialism. If artistic integrity means more to the player, then the big bucks usually don't follow. I do however notice that nowadays the conflict isn't as noticeable, although I might get some pushback from those who are irritated by the difference between, say, a Chris Botti and a Dave Douglas.

George Benson once said that if he could make millions cutting only "pure jazz" recordings, he'd be all too happy to do so. Yet some, even today, transcend this argument: think Brubeck, Quincy Jones on up to Christian McBride.

The best cats manage to make a good living without too much encroachment on their artistry. Pat Metheny is an excellent example, and his points about Kenny G are well taken.

My dear wife, who has no discernable musical tastes was a Kenny G fan back in the mid-'90's. My explicit orders were never to play his stuff in our house on my equipment when I'm home. No worries now; Gorelick fell off her radar screen years ago. She's since elevated her tastes to Bill Evans, Marian McPartland, and Oscar Peterson.

There is no greater crime in music than to exploit the career and legacy of Louis Armstrong (particularly by musical personalities of the caucasian persuasion). An unforgiveable sacrilege to be sure.
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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 21st, 2010, 4:31 pm

Bill McFadden wrote:There is no greater crime in music than to exploit the career and legacy of Louis Armstrong (particularly by musical personalities of the caucasian persuasion).

Bill, why does race particularly matter?

(He asks while here listening to Dick Zimmermans terrific CD of Scott Joplins music.)

Dustin

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bob Farmer » May 21st, 2010, 4:34 pm

Nightmare:

Kenny G announces he will re-record Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" and John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" with those members of the Lawrence Welk orchestra still able to see the sheet music.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby mrgoat » May 21st, 2010, 4:36 pm

Oh god. That is a horrible, horrible though.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Jim Martin » May 21st, 2010, 4:42 pm

Bob,

Better yet, Kenny G wants to be taken more seriously as a jazz musician by recording a 2 disc tribute to Thelonious Monk.

Titles are:
"Straight, No Changes" and "'Round Noon".
Jim Martin
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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 21st, 2010, 4:43 pm

So Whitney Houston should not have covered Dolly Partons I Will Always Love You?

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby P.T. Murphy » May 21st, 2010, 4:46 pm

Bob Farmer wrote:I humbly accept the accolades and go now to turn my other amp -- a Mesa Boogie Mark IV -- to 11, channel 3, and let the shred tremors destroy every molecule of the memory of the Kenny who was the G, but now is just the Z -- as in zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


"Why don't you just make 10 louder and make 10 be the top number?"

I will join you in the spirit of Nigel, Jimi, EVH and other inspirational slingers of the six string, as I plug into my Mesa Boogie Nomad 100 watt combo (also in channel 3) and attempt to send a thick and blistery miasma of Yngwie-esque
(I wish) neo-classical face melt in Kenny G's general direction.
"Those who do not believe in magic

will never find it. " -Roald Dahl

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby erdnasephile » May 21st, 2010, 4:46 pm

Bill McFadden wrote:There is no greater crime in music than to exploit the career and legacy of Louis Armstrong (particularly by musical personalities of the caucasian persuasion).


As a minority, I agree with Dustin. IMHO, the injection of race into this issue is just a side track--if the act is wrong, it's wrong, race nonwithstanding. If someone abuses my legacy, it is going to be harmful, even if the perpertrator shares my ethnicity.

That said, is it necessarily wrong to pay tribute to a master jazz musicians's music by covering it? For example, "Steven Mayer Plays Art Tatum". Clearly this album was not meant to "exploit" the master, but rather to pay tribute to him. (even though the music in this case was note for note.)

In magic, should only the inner circle be able to perform a Vernon routine move for move? (See: Whit Haydn's brilliant essay, "Against Originality in Magic")

I'm not a Kenny G fan, but I think the real issue here is not the actual act itself, but rather that many jazz pros detest and do not respect Kenny G. and/or they are envious, as Metheny says.

The real question is: who decides who is worthy to pay tribute?

PS: Getting back to magic: Didn't Copperfield also "deutize" Orson Welles?

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 21st, 2010, 4:49 pm

erdnasephile wrote:Didn't Copperfield also "deutize" Orson Welles?

Actually that was originally done by Dick Himber. Copperfield "covered" it.

Dustin

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Pete McCabe » May 21st, 2010, 6:19 pm

I understand that Jazz musicians think Louis Armstrong is great and Kenny G is not. I'm not a professional musician but I am not an idiot.

I just don't know what that has to do with what Pat Metheny said. The idea that Kenny G is insulting Louis Armstrong is absurd. He's giving the greatest tribute he can. Just because you don't like his music doesn't in any way change his motivation. And what harm, exactly, does the existence of an Armstrong/G duet do to the legacy of Louis Armstrong?

Meanwhile, have a look at this:

A tribute to Louis Armstrong

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bob Farmer » May 21st, 2010, 7:19 pm

Perhaps that's the problem: the G isn't up to the tribute.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 21st, 2010, 7:53 pm

I'll take Bill Evans, George Shearing, and Oscar Peterson.
Chet Baker.
Louis Armstrong.
Art Tatum.
Nat Cole.
Stan Getz.
Toots Thielemans.
Stephane Grapelli.
Django Reinhardt.

Kenny who? He's not even in my book.
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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 21st, 2010, 8:04 pm

Here's Toots playing Bluesette at age 87, LAST YEAR.
The guy is the Dai Vernon of the harmonica.
A jazz master.
Kenny G is like David Harkey by comparison.




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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 21st, 2010, 8:16 pm

And if you enjoyed that, watch him rock with Stevie Wonder.


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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bob Farmer » May 21st, 2010, 8:20 pm

Fantastic.

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby erdnasephile » May 21st, 2010, 8:50 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I'll take Bill Evans, George Shearing, and Oscar Peterson.
Chet Baker.
Louis Armstrong.
Art Tatum.
Nat Cole.
Stan Getz.
Toots Thielemans.
Stephane Grapelli.
Django Reinhardt.

Kenny who? He's not even in my book.


Don't forget Dave McKenna! :)

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 21st, 2010, 9:14 pm

And now, without the harmonica! (Forgot to mention that "Bluesette" is Toot's most famous composition.) This is the way Toots originally performed his song: guitar and whistling.



<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NlE8eba6y9I&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NlE8eba6y9I&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>
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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Bill McFadden » May 21st, 2010, 9:37 pm

Dustin Stinett wrote:Bill, why does race particularly matter?


Dustin, you caught me thinking in the jazz idiom there. In the hundred or so years the music has developed, there unfortunately remains an unspoken division along racial, talent, and popularity lines. They are indicative of one's credentials and standing. Amongst musicians, critics, and fanatics it goes with the turf.

An example of that thinking would insist that it's perfectly fine if Wynton Marsalis made special tribute to Louis Armstrong, but don't even think of Pops and Kenny G in the same sentence!

My intention did not include offending anyone, or escalating controversy and I'm very sorry if that was the result.
Last edited by Bill McFadden on May 21st, 2010, 9:38 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason: grammar

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 21st, 2010, 9:45 pm

Sure looks like folks here find racism more comfortable to confront than how the OP topic reflects on magicians.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Dustin Stinett » May 21st, 2010, 10:50 pm

Jonathan, no one is talking about racism. I only asked why race mattered; thats not racism. When it comes to jazzI love it and listen to it; I learned to appreciate it from watching Johnny Carsonbut beyond the mainstream (Pete Fountain, Buddy Rich, Miles Davis, etc.) I am a tyro. Bill gave a thoughtful answer and I get what hes saying (and I was not offended Bill, just honestly curious).

Dustin

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Jonathan Townsend » May 21st, 2010, 10:58 pm

I'm still puzzled by just who decides what constitutes a crime in music.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Pat Metheny on Magic

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 21st, 2010, 11:06 pm

BAD music is a crime.

You can start with ABBA ... then with Kenny G playing ABBA's Greatest Hits.
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