New Copperfield TV Special

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 4th, 2008, 12:44 pm

Let's be calm now, please.

I think most people would be very pleased to see David Copperfield star in a great new quality TV special. It helps to publicize magic in a good way. I think we can all pretty much agree on that point.

Timothy, this is a discussion forum. When you start a discussion, just like in real life it goes off on tangents and often can't be controlled. Ditto here. That's just the way it is. Some people will like what you're trying to do with the petition, others won't. I don't think it will have any meaning to David Copperfield, however, who makes these types of business decisions based entirely on other criteria. But, I salute you for taking the time and trouble for feeling strong enough on a subject to do something about it.
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby mrgoat » November 4th, 2008, 1:06 pm

Timothy Drake wrote:Damian,
I'm more than willing to debate things. Yes I now what trolling means and when someone posts " Oh Dear" thats trolling. LOL


Obviously you don't know what trolling means, despite me usefully posting a definition of it. Posting 'oh dear' was neither offensive, insulting or intended to annoy. It was snark. There is a MASSIVE difference between someone posting snarkily and someone trolling.

I find it quite insulting that you are name-calling.

Timothy Drake wrote:I have a life and have to leave the computer now but will be happy to civilly debate this( if you can stick to the points as well) when I return. I'll address each point you made. In the meantime can you first answer my question to you. You said Copperfield was not the best to do this. I asked you WHO was then and you didn't answer.


What? If *I* can stick to the points? Can you explain where I didn't stick to the points. All I have done is quote you and respond to that. Is that not 'the points'?

I did answer it. I posted this:

"Almost anyone. Copperfield is cheesy. His style is rather 80s. He has no place on TV. I saw his Vegas show last year. Looks like his last TV special. Old.

I think TV needs new stars, and new ideas. Not recycled 80s cheese."

Timothy Drake wrote:I look forward to that answer when I return and I will be happy to answer yours then. I just don't want to get into one of those silly " I quote you then you quote me quoting you quoting me " sort of things. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do that.


Rather than being silly, that is the way you should discuss something online. That way, you can quote someone's point, and then address than specifically. It makes it much easier to follow and makes sure you answer the points.

But I understand if you don't want to do that. After all, this discussion is almost as pointless as your petition.

As I have said before, I am pleased you are a fan of Copperfield. That's great. I am pleased you want to see him back on TV. And to a degree, it's great to see someone trying to change something. But, as many have pointed out on this thread, a) that is unlikely to happen at this point in his career and b) a petition is unlikely to alter the networks or his mind on the matter.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 4th, 2008, 1:31 pm

Just a quick reminder to US citizens - kindly get yourself to your voting location and get your political voice heard.

We can reconvene for a lively discussion of whether or not to ask the Mystery Science Theater writers to offer commentary on DC's TV specials a little later. Maybe a DC special with Mitch Peligge and Don Pardo doing announcements and commentary?
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 4th, 2008, 2:35 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Let's be calm now, please.

I think most people would be very pleased to see David Copperfield star in a great new quality TV special. It helps to publicize magic in a good way. I think we can all pretty much agree on that point.

Timothy, this is a discussion forum. When you start a discussion, just like in real life it goes off on tangents and often can't be controlled. Ditto here. That's just the way it is. Some people will like what you're trying to do with the petition, others won't. I don't think it will have any meaning to David Copperfield, however, who makes these types of business decisions based entirely on other criteria. But, I salute you for taking the time and trouble for feeling strong enough on a subject to do something about it.


Thanks Richard,

Yes I am more than familiar with the antics of discussion forums. I have participated in many before, dealt with trolls before and even participated in behavior in threads I was not proud of. I chose to quit doing that and even that move was jumped on by trolls. LOL I found the only way to win was to ignore them.

I'm always up for civil debate and discussion and many of my friends in magic are those whom I met in heated battle with a difference of opinion in various forums. Points were made on both sides and we realized we'd never agree on everything so we instead focused on things we do agree.

I came back to the computer hoping that Damian would have answered WHO he thought might be a better choice than Copperfield but instead only got more of the trolling point counter point quoting that I specifically wanted to avoid and asked him not to do. He chose not to answer the question put to him and his rants only prove that he would not be a worthy opponent in civil debate but instead only a nuisance so I will not bother to be fodder for his trolling attempts.

If we move on ( after you all have voted of course..... how was that John? LOL) I'd like to ask this question.... Are you currently happy with the quality of magic on television these days?

Thats not a leading question.. I'm not going to follow it up with any retort. I'm just curious if magicians of today are happy with the offerings they are seeing on network television over the past while.

Best,

Tim

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby mrgoat » November 4th, 2008, 3:06 pm

Sigh.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 4th, 2008, 3:52 pm

I am not happy with the quality of magic on TV these days.

However, can someone think of a "golden age" other than when Doug Henning and David Copperfield overlapped on TV?
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Chris Aguilar » November 4th, 2008, 4:23 pm

Image

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Naphtalia » November 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

I grew up watching Copperfield and Henning on t.v. I remember the occasional late night for me when I might have caught a magician on Johnny Carson. I remember Merv Griffin's and Mike Douglas's shows would sometimes have magicians on.

There are moments of magic on t.v. today that I have enjoyed, but overall, I'm not terribly impressed. When the camera jumps around constantly, I feel like I'm standing just beyond the first circle of spectators and having to jump and peek past others to see what's happening.

That said, just because I don't like the flavor of the material doesn't make it bad; it just makes it not my taste. I see lots of youngsters who are very excited by what they see on t.v. Honestly, I suspect that neither C.A. or D.B. would consider me to be in their target demographic.
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 4th, 2008, 5:18 pm

I am not happy with magic on tv today.

I forgot to mention that the various America's Got Talent shows didn't do a lot for magic on television either. Exposures and bad magic were left in while good acts were edited out. Then of course there is ol' Val tossing in his monkey wrench again.

Kudos to Letterman for Magic Week! Ellen has been kind to magic as well.

Best,

Tim

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby David Thomas » November 4th, 2008, 7:32 pm

Magic on TV is not good at all in my opinion. Some of the up and coming magicians would do well in a magic special.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby mrgoat » November 4th, 2008, 7:38 pm

I think Andy Nyman and Derren Brown have created some of the most astounding magic on television in decades.

I love their thinking and realisation of the theatre of magic.

Shame the show didn't do as well in the US as it did in the UK.

And also, shame the US didn't get to see all the shows we did here.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Doug Thornton » November 4th, 2008, 8:39 pm

Didn't get to see any Andy Nyman shows.
I did watch some of Derren Brown's series when it ran here and I liked it.
The best show of his I saw online - "Something Wicked This Way Comes". I was struck by how it reminded me of the David Copperfield specials - no illusions, of course - Derren exuded a wonderful charm, and the show was filled with humor and theatricality.
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby mrgoat » November 4th, 2008, 8:43 pm

Doug Thornton wrote:Didn't get to see any Andy Nyman shows.
I did watch some of Derren Brown's series when it ran here and I liked it.
The best show of his I saw online - "Something Wicked This Way Comes". I was struck how it reminded me of the David Copperfield specials - no illusions, of course - Derren exuded a wonderful
charm, and the show was filled with humor and theatricality.


Sorry. My bad. Nyman creates many effects for Brown. He produces the TV show and both produces and also directs the live shows.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby MaxNY » November 4th, 2008, 9:03 pm

As I painted the front of my house today, and even though it was cold, it was more interesting to watch than this thread.

I'm not to sure if anyone brought this up yet, but after what the Masked Peabrain has been serving up...I don't expect anymore illusions on television anytime in the next decade.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 4th, 2008, 9:20 pm

Max,

Anyone with a enough social-cognitive functions to make their own program watching choices also knows that magic is not about how the tricks are done but how one feels when watching them. Sure we have some who are dolts but they are not our audiences and probably need help way beyond the amusement we are setting out to give audiences.

That said, it's really more a failure of our society to instill values which treat taboo knowledge as a trusteeship rather than the illicit and unproductive pleasure some folks get stuck about.

:)

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby magicman1953 » November 4th, 2008, 9:47 pm

What do you all think about Cyril over in Japan?

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby MaxNY » November 5th, 2008, 8:54 am

I picked up 2 Cyril DVD's (from the Japanese video rental/store on 46th street) over a year ago...but haven't watched them yet. Maybe this week.

From what I have seen of Cyril, I can see that style working, on TV here. But anything with bases or stairs out.

Jonathan your written word and ideas are from Westchester, NY....The majority of TV viewers are "dolts".

I don't see David Copperfield eating a fast food burger, nor do I think he walks on the streets...maybe beaches.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Dave Mithaca » November 5th, 2008, 11:38 am

Edited or not, I feel that Copperfield's television specials will go down in history as the benchmark that everything else is compared to.

If I could only bring my family to see one live magic show, it would be Copperfield's. I'd love to see another TV special.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 5th, 2008, 11:47 am

Dave Mithaca wrote:Edited or not, I feel that Copperfield's television specials will go down in history as the benchmark that everything else is compared to.

If I could only bring my family to see one live magic show, it would be Copperfield's. I'd love to see another TV special.


Thanks Dave,

Please consider adding your name to the list.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dcopperfield/

Best,

Tim

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 5th, 2008, 4:35 pm

Cyril's great. I had my doubts at first. Just watching a few isolated clips on YouTube at the very beginning made it seem to me that he was imitating the worst aspects of Blaine and Angel. However, after watching his shows (which a friend has been sending to me on DVD), he's impressive. And from what I understand he does a rockin' live show, with which he's been touring successfully.
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby ChristianCagigal » November 5th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Derren and Nyman are Brilliant! They really took magic beyond the demonstration and turned it into a journey.

It's not just one story or one vignette or a tiny one act with one illusion. Their stuff is a FULL story with every magical moment backing up the big concept!

Some might call this bizarre. I might be inclinced to agree.

However, I do believe DC flew with that concept as his big illusions like the Great Wall had other small illusions to back up the large illusion of the him walking through it.

But Derren and Nyman have made it so much more cohiesive.

I'm sad that his stuff didn't work in the US but that's only because they took his half our show and watered it down to become an hour show. I love Derren but I can't watch a whole lot of the half our show because it usually demonstration after demonstration. At least with the half our show it's really 22 minutes after commercials. That's totally reasonalbe to watch.

Ever other Brit show that comes here just get's rerun as is and the niche audience loves it that way. They should have just started showing episodes of of the weekly show and let them gather and audience. I really do believe that would have worked.

The alternative would be to make an American version of Derren like they did with The Office but I don't think any of us including Derren and Nyman would have liked that idea ;)

Cyril is fantastic!
Reminds me of a young Copperfield but on the "street".
But, his show sometimes suffers from the whole "gotta find more tricks to fill time with" It's led to some great effects and presentations and a bit of overload too.

C

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby John Signa » November 5th, 2008, 6:03 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:Just watching a few isolated clips on YouTube at the very beginning made it seem to me that he was imitating the worst aspects of Blaine and Angel.

At least with Angel, the imitation would have been the other way around. Several times while watching Mindfreak, I felt a sense of deja vu; there seemed to be several segments that were copies of things Cyril had done long before (performing egg, lemon, orange, canary trick in a grocery store, doing magic tricks/stunts while disguised by prosthetics, pulling & putting items out of a sign/picture, etc).

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby ChristianCagigal » November 5th, 2008, 6:49 pm

I agree...

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Roger M. » November 6th, 2008, 12:28 pm

Timothy Drake wrote:If you are suggesting that Copperfield is not up to todays audience that has been entertained with Camera Tricks over the past few years than that is all the more reason to revert back to actual magic in front of a live audience.

Although I've been a DC fan for over 25 years, I'm not sure I agree with how "clean" you think DC's magic is Tim, either on TV or with today's live show.

I'm sure you know that DC's live show today is far from pure, as were his TV specials back in the day.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 6th, 2008, 12:50 pm

Hi Roger,

If you are referring to video help being used in Copperfields live show ... I don't have a problem with that. It's still being presented to a real live audience and the effects, vanishes..etc are being performed without camera edits. I'm pretty sure I know of what you speak but hesitate to go into detail in a public forum regards method. I think you are talking about the convincer of a certain illusion ?

My point is that the illusion could still be done without this "convincer". You can't say the same about most of the camera effect magic on television today. Its all hollywood.. including the "so called" audience.

Your point is valid though. If David DID do a special again he'd be best to leave out ANY of these convincers to avoid comparison to the current issue of camera edits.

Best,

Tim

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dcopperfield/

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Randy Sager » November 6th, 2008, 1:12 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing D.C. do at least one more television special. But I don't think it will happen. It would serve no purpose for him to do so. He still tours is still a very big draw in Las Vegas and elsewhere so why would he even need to think about doing more t.v. work? This is not 20 years ago when he had to keep his name out there so people would know who he is and go to see him on tour. As someone said he has been there done that and now it's time for him to do other things as he is doing now.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 6th, 2008, 1:25 pm

Randy Sager wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing D.C. do at least one more television special. But I don't think it will happen. It would serve no purpose for him to do so. He still tours is still a very big draw in Las Vegas and elsewhere so why would he even need to think about doing more t.v. work? This is not 20 years ago when he had to keep his name out there so people would know who he is and go to see him on tour. As someone said he has been there done that and now it's time for him to do other things as he is doing now.


Hi Randy,

But would you watch it if he did one? LOL If so please take a moment and add your name. What can it hurt?

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dcopperfield/

Best,

Tim

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Dustin Stinett » November 6th, 2008, 9:28 pm

David Alexander wrote:DC used editing to produce a segment that was a music video with Bonnie Raitt singing and DC supposedly floating across the Grand Canyon.


I just now read through this thread and I have no comment other than to say that it was Bonnie Tyler who was singing Holding Out for a Hero (her a hit tune from the film Footloose) during this opening piece from The Magic of David Copperfield VI (April 6, 1984).

Dustin

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby smokemist » November 7th, 2008, 1:35 pm

Kevin Connolly wrote:There is no upside for Copperfield to do another TV show. What does he have to gain, how could it help him, etc. IMHO you're not going to see DC do another magic special. On the red carpet, award show yes.


What are u talking about? He has everything to gain by doing another special.

He is not doing it for the money. He's doing magic to elevate his personal status, confidence, pride, self esteem, etc.. The same reason why we all do magic. If we were the last person on earth, would we still be doing magic? No..

By doing another special and taking back the reigns of believable magic on TV, he has everything to gain. That's why he is STILL performing after 30+ years.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Randy » November 7th, 2008, 2:12 pm

Orignally posted by Smokemist: "He is not doing it for the money. He's doing magic to elevate his personal status, confidence, pride, self-esteem, etc...."

Although I don't know him personally, I get the feeling DC does not suffer from a lack of confidence or self-esteeem.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Richard Kaufman » November 7th, 2008, 2:39 pm

I'm sorry, Smokemist, but I do magic because it pleases me to practice and sometimes do a trick for someone. If I was the last person on earth, I'd spend a lot more time practicing so I wouldn't go nuts.
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 7th, 2008, 3:09 pm

Richard Kaufman wrote:I'm sorry, Smokemist, but I do magic because it pleases me to practice and sometimes do a trick for someone. If I was the last person on earth, I'd spend a lot more time practicing so I wouldn't go nuts.


I'm with Smokelist. Its the rush of the audience reaction that does it for me. I think that ego stroking moment is something we all enjoy although many would not admit it.

I don't think Copperfield is beyond wanting to be considered tops again in popularity. I'm not suggesting he do the show for that reason but I doubt he wouldn't enjoy the limelight again. Wouldn't we all?

Best,

Tim

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Roger M. » November 7th, 2008, 4:19 pm

I think some might drastically underestimate DC's confidence level and self-esteem.....this is David Copperfield we're talking about here.....in the big time and on the stage for over 25 years now.

The guy does not need to do a TV special to boost his own self-image.....He seems pretty comfortable in his own skin, pretty comfortable with his bank balance, happy with his little magic collecting hobby, and quite relaxed after spending time on his little island(s).

Having a semi-permanent show in a major hotel on the Strip in Vegas, and being able to tour the world to extremely strong houses whenever you feel like getting out for a bit doesn't hurt ones self-esteem either!

It wouldn't really be a stretch to imagine that if David Copperfield really wanted to do a TV special at any point since his last TV special, he'd certainly have the resources to have done one.....and if he wanted to do one today, he'd be well on his way to doing just that.

Is he well on his way to doing just that?.....there are rumors out there, but I've seen nothing to indicate that there's any real traction to the idea of him doing a new TV show.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Kevin Connolly » November 7th, 2008, 4:44 pm

Tim and Smokey,

Just read the posts from others for the answer. If you two want DC to make a special, I'm happy for you. For the rest of us, it's been there, done that for DC with doing another special.

Another big draw-back that I don't think anyone mentioned was IF DC made a new special, would it drop him down to a Blaine or Angel status? It could in many eyes.

Good Luck with your petition.

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 7th, 2008, 5:03 pm

Kevin Connolly wrote:Tim and Smokey,

Another big draw-back that I don't think anyone mentioned was IF DC made a new special, would it drop him down to a Blaine or Angel status? It could in many eyes.

Kevin


Hi Kevin,

So television specials are considered a step backwards for someone? Angel status did an awful lot for Angel over the last few years...got him a 10 year deal.

When Angel is better known than Copperfield with todays magic fans ... I'd say that television exposure ain't so bad.

Best,

Tim

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Roger M. » November 7th, 2008, 7:10 pm

Tim, although Angel may be better known to a TV watching younger generation, he's not remotely in the same league as DC when it comes to the ability to actually put hundreds of thousands of bums in seats.

Copperfield stands alone in his ability to sell tickets, and he's held that position for a couple of decades now.

I watched my first live sold out David Copperfield show in 1986, and I watched my last live sold out David Copperfield show earlier this month! (with a lot of sold out live shows in between seen by hundreds of thousands of his other fans).

Those are stats that are difficult, if not impossible to argue with.....no 2009 TV special required!

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 7th, 2008, 8:18 pm

Roger M. wrote:I watched my first live sold out David Copperfield show in 1986, and I watched my last live sold out David Copperfield show earlier this month! (with a lot of sold out live shows in between seen by hundreds of thousands of his other fans).

Those are stats that are difficult, if not impossible to argue with.....no 2009 TV special required!


Hi Roger,

Well David could pack it in tomorrow and live off his hundreds of millions so technically he doesn't need to so shows either. But he does. I guess its because he chooses to and not because he has to.

I'm suggesting the same for the 2009 TV special. I'd like him to choose to and not suggesting he has to.

Best,

Tim

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dcopperfield/

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Kevin Connolly » November 7th, 2008, 9:12 pm

Will someone please bring in a new horse. This one sure has been beaten to death.

And you know the old addage, you can bring a horse to water....

I'm done here.
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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby Timothy Drake » November 7th, 2008, 9:20 pm

Hello Kevin,

Bring in a new horse and I'll be happy to beat it as well. LOL

Best,

Tim

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Re: New Copperfield TV Special

Postby TrixNBag » November 7th, 2008, 9:45 pm

Wow. I remember I used to tape his tv specials when I was a kid. He looked fly with his poofy white shirt and the doves fluttering out of him.


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