Criss Angel Believe Buzz

[Tom Frame]

This is not surprising. From the onset, the collaboration was conceptually ill-defined, if not adversarial. Criss is Criss. Cirque is Cirque. Combining the two "personalities" did not form a pleasing Gestalt. In this case, the whole was lesser than the sum of it's parts.

I think it's wise that the parties are choosing to cut and run now, before things get even worse. Hopefully, this failed endeavor will not diminish the public's appreciation of either of the players.

I believe that Criss will fare much better with his own show. It will provide him with the opportunity to prove to his fans and critics (including me)that he can actually perform Mind Freak-ish effects live. Despite my extreme disdain of his narcissism, I wish him well. I want to believe.

[CraigMitchell]

Cirque pulling out of the show would be a MAJOR sign of defeat for Cirque ... and they do have a track record of sticking with something until they get it working.

There would also be a huge investment that Cirque would need to re-coup ... would they remain a silent investor in the project if it went ahead without them ( which I somehow can't see happening ... there have been lots of reports of the so-called Cirqie 'fixation' team coming in )

If Luxor signed with Cirque primarily - they definitely ( I would assume ) are the ones in the driving seat ...

Interesting times indeed.

In answer to Richard's question - trying to book tickets post Jan '09 isn't possible online - keeps directing you to call the box office. Interestingly, there is a disclaimer on the site which I haven't seen before saying that in case of cancellation Cirque are only responsible for ticket refund.

What is for certain - is that the show will be undergoing changes. What version 2 looks like is anyone's guess ...

[Ray T. Stott]

there have been lots of reports of the so-called Cirqie 'fixation' team coming in )

In the good old days, when the mob called the shots in LV, they would have sent one of their 'fixation' teams to deal with this troublesome fellow four months ago.
Two gorillas wearing pork pie hats and pointed toe shoes.

[David Vamer]

Odd how we haven't heard from the person who was going to see the show and "meet Criss personally." I guess even the Loyal are being let down.

[Richard Kaufman]

We actually did--he said he saw the show several times and liked it.

[John Archer]

Interesting thoughts Richard, that is similar to what I heard...

John

[castawaydave]

Criss Angel is #5 on a list of 10 items in an "L.A. Times" article called "Best & Worst 2008: The Year in Vegas"...

A photo (linked below) is accompanied by this blurb:

"The most anticipated show of the year was the collaboration between Cirque and new-wave magician Criss Angel. After a few delays, "Criss Angel Believe" opened on Halloween to terrible reviews. Cirque announced strong advance sales for its sixth Vegas show and there are plans in place to revise the show for 2009. The show is dark most of January because of cast rotations."

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne ... ry?index=5

[Gary Kosnitzky]

Las Vegas Review Journal - DEC 21, 2008

To quote this full article by Journalist Alan Choate:

CRISS ANGEL MIGHT WANT TO MAKE SOME HOCKEY FANS DISAPPEAR

At the Las Vegas Wrangler's annual Midnight Hockey event last week, the announcer went through one of his many "we welcome our special guests" segments, this one including employees or guests of the Blue Man Group, Treasures Gentleman's Club and various Cirque shows.

There were loud cheers for Treasures and polite applause for everything else.
Everything except "Criss Angel Believe." For that, the crowd had nothing but boos. Long, loud boos.

Louder and longer, in fact than any boos directed at the Ontario Reign, who were beating the Wranglers 1-0.

[DalanJe]

Hello again!

It has taken me a bit to get back on here! Sorry for that. I had a new baby born in my immediate family and she has been the VIP in my life for some time now. Okay I'll get to it.

I met Criss twice. He seems to be an intriguing, charismatic individual when he wants to be. I sense a lot more going through his mind at all times under the surface than the average fan, or Loyal, will ever know. Nice enough to meet though, got some pics and so on right before the first performance.


I truly like Cirque shows. I like the tv show Mindfreak. This was different from both - emphatically. I think ( just my personal opinion) that if you possess the (publicly known) working knowledge of Criss' history and aren't there simply to critique the physical technicalities, the show is enjoyable. I love both elements of this performance in each one's seperate forms. I liked them together as well. I do see where some of the seams and themes appear ravelled. I myself took it as the rambling, dream-like sequences that travel the subconcious mind. This - for me- made the "disjointed" parts seem deliberate. It also seemed the obvious intent of the opening sequence with the accident. I do feel if you are looking for it, one can indeed find things to criticize. It will be interesting to view it again when the "fixation " team is through, or whatever happens when it goes dark.


The Loyal are exactly that -loyal- and the dozen or more I spoke with, both before and after the show I saw, said it had changed almost every performance they had attended. This particular group seem to frequent Vegas, and have viewed it both a few weeks apart and, on this trip, twice the same night. All seemed satisfied and intended to purchase tickets again.


I myself will definitely see it again because of the feeling/emotion it evoked. My favorites are levitations and birds. I enjoy one for its simplicity and grace, the other for the sense or child-like awe it inspires in me. I feel Criss did a beautiful job with both during the performance. I have heard from two other viewers that they did not find it so inspiring. Probably a case of "you like it or you DON'T". No difference to me here nor there what someone else likes. They are entited to their own opinion.

As far as obvious doubles goes- I don't look for them for two reasons: 1. Because I agreed I wanted to be entertained and 2. A magic show is likely to have doubles. So I find it neither here nor there. As for disappearing at the same spot every time- I wonder how many doors are required to be entertaining since one already knows that's how it's done anyway. You can dress it up all you want, it still is what it is. Neither here not there to me, once again.

I enjoyed the dance sequences immensely. I liked the symbolism and choreograpy. I will always check out Wade Robson's work with interest. The costumes were gorgeous, as was the stage. Kudos to those artisans who created them! I found the patter in between to be indicative of the interruptions, good times and false starts that happen in life.... further interpreted in the context of the dream-sequence theme. Several of my companion viewers didn't like them. I feel Denoncourt intentionally kept it moving this way. In fairness, it may well be that I like things switched up, moving and changing at all times, therefore this happened to appeal to me on a more personal level. I also feel my view of the entirety as the ramblings and fantasies of the inner mind of an unconcious person helped it seem cohesive for me. I am personally not a big fan of the bad-girl with the chainsaw part of the show, I felt it was too far in the background. I don't want to be too spoiler happy so I will leave it at that.


I spoke with some guys that night who quickly informed me they were Mindfreak fans but NOT Cirque fans. They didn't seem impressed. They liked Mindfreak better and wished there had been more "magic". They also said he should " put Holly in there for some real visual effect". Just their humble opinion. I broke down laughing and went on my merry way. Too tabloid for me, but they have a right to their opinions and while I don't agree, I felt it fair to mention here because I am not completely unobjective.

There was no "BOOING" in the ladies room or anywhere else so I can not say anything unobjective or otherwise about that rumor. It didn't happen while I was there, lol.


The show had humor, some gore, lots of graceful color, dancing, street dancing, and more symbolism than some Criss Angel fans (at least the male ones I discussed it with) may actually "get". Any problems I would talk about have to do with the idea that this was a collaboration, however, the viewers were primarily Cirque OR Mindfreak oriented, not usually both, resulting in a few seriously confused viewers out there. I spent hours over 4 days chatting with peope who wanted to know if I liked the show, as well as those who had seen it performed repeatedly on different nights. This seemed to be the recurring theme of most criticisms: " I liked it overall - BUT"..... this one and that didn't sense continuity, or even the simplest symbolism because it was just " not their thing" (the one I am thinking on loved the extreme thrill type Criss Angel Mindfreak material. He wasn't a literary type.) Therefore, it seemed a disjointed performance to them.


Since this show is still obviously under construction.... and due to the fact I spoke with a loyal or two that was seeing it for the 6th and 7th time while I was there, I would say see it now, check it again after the re- vamp and make a decision then.
Overall I give it a thumbs up, with the qualifier that you view this work- in - progress with child-like wonder and just enjoy the fun.

[David Vamer]

I'm glad you had fun, Dalanje. I have to say, though, it sounds like you are reviewing a high school talent show, accepting a sub-par show out of love for the performer.

Las Vegas built it's reputation for having the highest-quality entertainment in the world. A show that's "OK...BUT..." hurts everyone.

[DalanJe]

David- really! Just stop! I am not in love with the performer by far. Criss isn't by far the only one responsible for how this show has turned out. I have redone my post because I feel it says what I mean better. You seem much more vehemently against Criss than I am for him. I am no rabid lovestruck child. I like being entertained for the sake of entertainment. I am not a magician - nor am I a theatre critic. I never tried to analyse the technical side of it. I am not here to be the recipient of your overly personal rantings! So I am telling you to just stow it. You don't want to be personally attacked- we all have that right. That includes me and Criss Angel. If nothing like this has ever been done before, it stands to reason they will, by force, have to test it live. That they are doing. So if you aren't part of the project, you can't possibly be the end all expert on how to do it. Neither can I be any more expert than you. I liked the New York show too. But Time has marched on and something new is being formed. So what if for now it isn't devastatingly perfect? I was entertained enough to be happy and to decide to return. So kindly stop raining your doom and gloom and gloating all over me. I am not Criss' complaint department. Kindly refrain from devaluing my opinions based on your inaccurate suppositions about who I "love" and the fact I don't agree with you. I am not "accepting" anything "subpar". None of us has the knowledge of what "par" is in this case yet. We can only state whether we liked what we have seen so far. I know- and perhaps you do too- that every Cirque show has gone through fine tuning for months after it opened. How does the quality of the show affect you- other than fueling the fire burning a hole in your pants that seems to set you off about Criss? I never bothered to go to a high schoo talent show so you may know more about that than I know. Thanks for at least being glad I had fun. I see you have been watching to give rebuttal on any positive post by me on this anyway. Why are you so dogged about putting Criss down? Or is it just this Show? Good grief!

[DalanJe]

Las Vegas built its reputation on far more than shows on the strip. It is called Sin City for a reason,lol!

[David Vamer]

Dalanje, I'm curious, how did the moment when Criss called a female cast member a "bitch" strike you? Why do you suppose he made that particular choice?

Latest rumor....Cirque is going to dump Criss and make the theater a stop for it's touring shows.

Oh, and, >>>the fire burning a hole in your pants>>>!?!?! I'll thank you to keep your deeply inappropriate thoughts out of my pants!

[David Alexander]

DalanJe wrote:

I met Criss twice. He seems to be an intriguing, charismatic individual when he wants to be. I sense a lot more going through his mind at all times under the surface than the average fan, or Loyal, will ever know. Nice enough to meet though, got some pics and so on right before the first performance.
***********************************

For insight into DalanJe's fixation on Criss Angel please see: http://dalanje.crissangel.com/

Scroll down and see a couple of pictures with her and the "charismatic" Criss.

[Richard Kaufman]

At least she's unambiguous in her adoration.

[David Alexander]

Yeah. "Unambiguous." That's one word you could use. I imagine there are others.

[Pepka]

That page that David posted is pretty disturbing. Obsess much? I've seen it, and unfortunately, I can't unsee it.

[David Vamer]

Geez, I really wish I was posting under a pseudonym right about now....

[Jonathan Townsend]

At least she's unambiguous in her adoration.

Idoru - not a bad idea.

For those who've found a hole in their self image... idoru. Contrived as disposable anxiety distractors.

[Disparity1]

Idoru - not a bad idea.

For those who've found a hole in their self image... idoru. Contrived as disposable anxiety distractors.

Okay, I Googled it. I still have no clue what you're talking about. I'm also not going to read the entire novel just to find out.

[David Alexander]

To quote Douglas Adams, I see this sort of fixation as "mostly harmless" if it doesn't supplant the "fixor's" normal life. In DalanJe's case, she announces that she's moving to Las Vegas to be near Criss. Okey dokey.

Certainly, from the expression on Criss' face in the two posted photos of him with DalanJe he's all excited about that prospect...or mildly comatose. I can't tell which. Since I don't know Criss I'll have to rely on others who know him to translate what that vacuous, dead-behind-the-eyes look signifies.

Anyone?

[Jonathan Townsend]

Idoru - not a bad idea.

For those who've found a hole in their self image... idoru. Contrived as disposable anxiety distractors.

Okay, I Googled it. I still have no clue what you're talking about. I'm also not going to read the entire novel just to find out.

The novel uses the Japanese term as its title. A good book but you can learn about the term directly if you click on a few more links via google to find out about the trend in disposable music star made media icons for short times.

Ignorance prevails

[David Alexander]

I believe this is Gibson explaining idoru -
I read an account somewhere -- very possibly in Karl Taro Greenfeld's "Speed Tribes" -- of an actual idoru in Japan who had not existed at all. The real idorus, as the Japanese have known them for a while, are little assembly-line girl singers who are just turned out, like 20 a month, I gather, in a way that people here just wouldn't buy. The Milli Vanilli factor is really high -- everybody knows that when you hear the record, it's probably not the girl actually singing.

So somebody took that one step further and brought out an idoru who didn't exist at all -- there simply wasn't any girl there. They had the record, and they had the pictures of her, and she became really popular. Possibly because kids knew she didn't exist.

*******************
I don't grasp what this has to do with CA unless we're looking at CA as "manufactured." Jon, care to translate?

[David Vamer]

When I read that someone has replaced philosophy and religion with being a Loyal, the ick-factor goes WAAAAAAY up.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Yes folks, a disposable icon built of surface/context without content - a brand image to fuss and fret and follow and fawn over. Barbie never gets married. Or like the blue duck image in Dilbert it's cool till someone breaks the spell.

[Jonathan Townsend]

When I read that someone has replaced philosophy and religion with being a Loyal, the ick-factor goes WAAAAAAY up.

Interesting point to make this evening. Ick factor or no, to the twelve who... but instead let's stick with media icon for fawning - please. Not so much a magician as a brand image and model for the merchandise you can wear to show your cool (loyalty) or mindfreakitude.

[DalanJe]

Thanks for posting my page. I am actually wanting to move to Nevada for a few reasons. I have family there too. But okay-whatever you are entitled to think what you want. I don't feel it's much of a "fixation" but it seems like some people here just enjoy being hateful. That's up to the individual. I wish you and yours an excellent holiday season anyway!

[DalanJe]

Why would you post under a pseudonym? Then we wouldn't know it was wonderfully pleasant you! I nearly fell out of my chair laughing about you telling me to stay off thinking about your pants. If you weren't so icky negative, you would be fun. I won't dignify some of what you said with a comment. It is just silly. I don't think Criss knows or cares if I move to Vegas. It won't change me wanting to see my family and friends I know from there. I had a lot of fun on my trip. I don't care what sort of expression Criss had on his face- it's a fan pic, nothing more.

As for the idoru comments- some people just like to act like they know it all. Go right ahead if that makes your rice crispies POP! LOL!

I'd like to see any of you put that energy behind something positive to say about anything,do something about a good cause or a worthy charity.

I wish you all happiness so you can get over being so nasty and negative. Talk about obsessive! You are each obsessed with being combative toward anyone who holds a differing point of view. You can't discuss it with any civility. I guess Criss is one of those kind of people that you either like him or you don't.

I still wish each and everyone here a joyful holiday season and peace in the New Year.

[DalanJe]

As for the moment he called her a name.....

I wasn't so thrilled with it. I think he is speaking of the media/fame in general and it is a line that is just written into the show. It didn't make me happy, but it is his show and I don't tell him how to do his thing. I wouldn't tolerate someone showing up at my job telling me how to do it unless I agreed to listen to them because they were my supervisor/boss or such. I wouldn't take my younger kids to this show for a few reasons- it is meant for older audiences. I don't remember any other objectionable words, but one was enough for me. What I choose to listen to is my own choice and I don't tell anyone else that they would like it just because I would. I can only tell them to consider it and that I myself liked it. I knew you would ask and I watched for it ( that word). I learn about myself by considering it when others question my thoughts on things. It didn't stop me from enjoying other parts of the show.

[DalanJe]

At least she's unambiguous in her adoration.

You know, ambiguous is a good word for the feeling I have about the show. I see why some people like it and to others it is really no fun. It really does seem unfinished business in a way. I wish it were set up in a way that it could appeal to all equally. That didn't seem to be what all of you felt toward it. I do like Criss but I am not what I am being run over for here. I have fun with my fan page. I go to work and take care of my life just like everyone else does.

[DalanJe]

When I read that someone has replaced philosophy and religion with being a Loyal, the ick-factor goes WAAAAAAY up.

I am not sure if you are trying to put words in my mouth or if you just didn't read carefully.I haven't replaced anything. so keep your inappropriate "icks" to yourself! LOL!

[Disparity1]

Idoru - not a bad idea.

For those who've found a hole in their self image... idoru. Contrived as disposable anxiety distractors.

Okay, I Googled it. I still have no clue what you're talking about. I'm also not going to read the entire novel just to find out.

The novel uses the Japanese term as its title. A good book but you can learn about the term directly if you click on a few more links via google to find out about the trend in disposable music star made media icons for short times.

Let me make my point more succinctly so it doesn't escape you twice. If I have to do a ton of research just to get the general sense of what you're saying, this is not necessarily indicative of a problem with me. If, on the other hand, you ever choose to communicate clearly and in a common language, then a real dialogue can ensue. I mean, you don't really believe that without extensive parsing, a phrase like "the trend in disposable music star made media icons for short times" is actually sensical, do you?

Ignorance prevails

Yes. You knew something I didn't. Treat yourself to a Snickers bar.

[DalanJe]

Idoru - not a bad idea.

For those who've found a hole in their self image... idoru. Contrived as disposable anxiety distractors.

Okay, I Googled it. I still have no clue what you're talking about. I'm also not going to read the entire novel just to find out.

The novel uses the Japanese term as its title. A good book but you can learn about the term directly if you click on a few more links via google to find out about the trend in disposable music star made media icons for short times.

Let me make my point more succinctly so it doesn't escape you twice. If I have to do a ton of research just to get the general sense of what you're saying, this is not necessarily indicative of a problem with me. If, on the other hand, you ever choose to communicate clearly and in a common language, then a real dialogue can ensue. I mean, you don't really believe that without extensive parsing, a phrase like "the trend in disposable music star made media icons for short times" is actually sensical, do you?

Ignorance prevails

Yes. You knew something I didn't. Treat yourself to a Snickers bar.

Let the fellow that wrote it feel free to bash me some more if I am wrong, by all means. It seems to be the only true point of interest in this thread - but I will take a stab at translating into less condescending terms, Disparity.

I am fairly sure his point is that he believes me to be delusionally fixated with Criss Angel and that he feels Criss is a media hype- not a "real" magician. He feels Criss is good at PR. He doesnt respect my opinions and is stating it in a way that attempts to be "high-brow" ( I think that's what my poor delusional type calls it) and shows disdain by making obscure references to some Sci- Fi book I used to dust frequently when I volunteered at the local library. I hope that helps.

Wow! The visceral, condescending attitude that prevails on this thread explains why you are all such happy people.

I am making a feast for christmas. We are having some spiced cider and bourbon candy as well. If any of you "holier-than -thou" types can manage to pull your head out of your own..... well I will keep it junk free - but you get the picture, stop by for some mirth and hospitality. I am sure I am not too far gone in my alleged delusion to offer you holiday cheer from a happy heart, lol. You guys take yourselves ENTIRELY too seriously sometimes. You are just busy putting me down so you don't have to take an honest look at your own problems.

Merry Christmas to all! Hope yours is magical! Mine already is!

[Ray T. Stott]

[font:Arial Black]

still wish each and everyone here a joyful holiday season and peace in the New Year.

Bah, Hamburg![/font]

[David Vamer]

I wrote>>When I read that someone has replaced philosophy and religion with being a Loyal, the ick-factor goes WAAAAAAY up.>>>

Dalanje replied>>>>I am not sure if you are trying to put words in my mouth or if you just didn't read carefully.I haven't replaced anything. so keep your inappropriate "icks" to yourself! LOL! >>>>

From Dalanje's fansite>>>Religion left me with questions and no answers. Philosophy left me with answers and insane questions. Finding Criss and the world of Loyals has left me with joy and balance to answer my own crazy questions. I am blessed with so many friends here. I feel surrounded by love when at this site. I want each of you to know how much I appreciate your love, moral support, jokes, pep talks, and general craziness in chat every day! Thanks for becoming (along with Criss and his Family) my extended family. Loyals rock!!! Criss rocks and Reigns Supreme!! >>>>>

[David Vamer]

>>>>Why would you post under a pseudonym? Then we wouldn't know it was wonderfully pleasant you!>>>>

Someday soon there will come a reckoning when all who refuse to bow down unto Criss shall be purged from the face of HIS Earth. I plan to fake it so I can stick around awhile.

>>>>I nearly fell out of my chair laughing about you telling me to stay off thinking about your pants.>>>

A boy has to have his standard's y'know.

>>>Talk about obsessive! You are each obsessed with being combative toward anyone who holds a differing point of view.>>>>

We're actually quite objective. Had Cirque du Soleilangel put up a great show, we'd be saying "What a great show!" And we're not combative toward different opinions. (Though I, personally, wonder why you objected to my saying that it was as though you were "accepting a sub-par show out of love for the performer." Seems to me you were flying a false flag of objectivity, when in fact, "Criss Reigns Supreme" and is, along with the rest of his family, "part of your extended family." Is that not "love"?)

We look at Criss differently from you. We see him as a peer, not as an icon or object of adoration, and judge his efforts and behavior accordingly.

>>>>I still wish each and everyone here a joyful holiday season and peace in the New Year.>>>>

Right back atcha! And, seriously, congrats on the new grandbaby.

[Jonathan Townsend]

The idoru have their fans in Japan and we have our media stars.

[Ray T. Stott]

[font:Arial Black]

Someday soon there will come a reckoning when all who refuse to bow down unto Criss shall be purged from the face of HIS Earth. I plan to fake it so I can stick around awhile.

:D [/font]

[Edward]

Wow! why can't people just allow others to have a different opinion.?

[Max Maven]

The idoru have their fans in Japan and we have our media stars.

Despite William Gibson's mistaken precedent, the word is correctly spelled aidoru.