Attention Magic Castle Members

[Brian Marks]

Originally posted by tonga:
Anent the suggestion that the Magic Castle move to New York.

I suggest you check with Milt as to why the plans to open a branch in New York back in 1968 went belly-up. Milt had a marvelous place picked out, John Shrum had made some preliminary sketches, but then one over-riding objection arose. I don't think the Cstle will be moving to New York.
1/25/04 2:42 PM

What was the objection? Why was the last time NY was considered 1968?

[Pete Biro]

Mafia control of liquor license.

[Brian Marks]

oh okay. Didn't they also control garbage removal back then also? Well that thankfully isn't the case now, I dont believe it is.

[David Alexander]

Regardless of who runs the Magic Castle, I doubt the pay will increase for the performers.

[Guest]

Originally posted by David Alexander:
Regardless of who runs the Magic Castle, I doubt the pay will increase for the performers.

I've heard differently.

[Pete Biro]

From whom David?

[Guest]

Very few acts work the Magic Castle for the money. It is the love of, and loyalty to the place, the fun and prestige of working it, and finally, of course, the need to work the Castle each year to be eligible for the award nominations.

If the place is not run by the AMA and Milt Larsen, I suspect they will have to pay the performers more--just like at any nightclub in Hollywood.

They certainly can't pay them any less. ;)

[Pete McCabe]

The "Magic Mansion" might well have to pay their performers more, to entice them to their new location. Then when a prospective customer says "What's the difference between you and the Magic Castle," they can say "we pay our acts more, so we get the cream of the crop."

Speaking of which, is the Magic Mansion in San Francisco still a going concern?

[Pete Biro]

It is my understanding San Francisco's Magic Mansion faded away a loooooooooong time ago.

[David Alexander]

I don't think Whit is right in that "they can't pay them any less." I suspect there would still be people eager to work the Castle if the pay was less.

The point is that while performers who play the Castle do it for "the fun of it," and "the prestige," the rest of the place is run like a business, for a profit.

I find it telling that while the magicians are expected to work for a pittance because of the various reasons stated, none of the other employees - the hosts, bartenders, cooks, waiters, valets, janitors - are expected to work for those reasons...and apparently Milt does not apply that philosophy to himself, either.

[Guest]

Excuse, me David, but that is not the case at all. The Magic Castle can only entertain 480 people a night, and we hire 8 magicians every nite.

Magicians from all over the world would be happy to work at the Castle for free, so there is no real need for the Castle to pay more. In the same way, the Tonite Show only has to pay scale--somewhere around $300 an appearance regardless of the size of the star.

I work the Castle four weeks a year, one week in each room. I would be glad to do the same for free if it helped the club. It is my club, after all.

I would not want to contribute that way to a nightclub that was not run for the "furtherance of magic." That would be a different thing all together.

The magicians work one week, once in a great while. Milt and the employees are full time. It is their job. The employees do not "belong" to the club in the same way the members do. They have no reason to work for less than they would anywhere else.

And as for Milt, he and Bill have created one of the longest-lived and most successful restaurants and nightclubs in LA. It is also been a home for magicians from all over the world for forty years. It is still, as it was originally envisioned, "A magic convention seven nights a week."

The dues and prices are ridiculously low, compared to any similar membership club in the country. It is a huge value to any member, and most of us know it and are very grateful to the Larsens for creating it.

I think Milt has well-earned whatever money he has made from the Castle.

I get tired of all the ungrateful carping that goes on about the club. In spite of all its problems, it is still the finest magic club in the world, and is affordable even by magicians who are still struggling in their careers or long past retirement. It is a very great gift that is given to the art.

[Tabman]

Originally posted by Geno Munari:
I would love to hear your Houdini story Tabby. Good to see you on here. BTW the jib is great.

thank you geno. im very happy to be here. ill tell the story soon about the seance room at the castle before they changed it when i get a few hours to take some photos. ill make up one of the post cards for you soon and send it out to you.
-=tabman

[Guest]

David Alexander
Oh sure the Castle empoyees are all there and have been there for up to 40+ years because of the stellar pay, not for their loyalty to Milt and the AMA

[Guest]

After spending a few days reading the posts on the Magic Castle Forum and talking to other members, it's now painfully obvious that the only reason for the creation of Castle Partners, LLC, despite what their wonderful mission statement says, isn't to make the Magic Castle more magical, but rather to generate more money for the Glovers.

I'm not against a business making money, but from what I've experienced, the Magic Castle wasn't started with the sole intention of being a money machine. It was, and still is, a real life dream come true.

Therefore, the question is: Will stealing the Castle from the Larsens help or hurt the Academy of Magical Arts?

Everything I've seen so far leads me to believe that the BEST CASE SCENARIO for the AMA will be a lessening of magician membership benefits. I don't even want to think about the worst case scenario.

I, for one, don't doubt for even a second, that the folks who take over the Castle will be successful financially, at least for a few years. I'll bet that under their leadership the new Magic Castle will be around for about as long as Caesar's Magical Empire or Wizards. They'll probably be making more dough than they're making now. But what about members ?

One of the deciding factors for me moving to L.A. was the close proximity of the Magic Castle.

Despite repeated requests for the CP, LLC partners to let members know what we might expect in terms of a change in the future operations of the Castle, all we've been given is a cold mission statement.

The silence is deafening!!!

Since they don't want to let us in on what their intentions may be, let's borrow the Seance Room's crystal ball and imagine for a few moments:

Hmmmm...

Raising membership dues to ten or twenty times what they are now, and allowing anyone, magician or not, who is willing to plop down the dough join the "magic" club. It'll be a real blast standing in line and talking magic with some guy who thinks The Professor was the guy from Gilligan's Island.

Getting rid of the library; it takes up too much valuable space!

Lectures? Who needs 'em.

Hey, they could hire a bunch of less than minimum wage guest workers instead of keeping on the current staff. That'll probably save some money.

I think that the one thing that wasn't factored in to the giant equation by the CP, LLC folks is what has allowed the Castle to survive when others have failed: The "Magic Bug."

Magicians know what I'm talking about.

For the unitiated, no explanation is possible; for those in the know, no explanation is necessary. However, I will say this: Without magicians, the old Lane mansion may become a magic-themed restaurant, and it will probably make money for awhile, but it will never become what people from all over the world have come to know, love, and return to over and over.

The Magic Castle will survive. It may be relocated, but the dream and the legacy of the Larsens won't be destroyed. Just as Whit Haydn says, "I go where Milt goes." Let's see how long those other guys last without magicians. :eek:

[Guest]

To MJMarrs:

Just out of curiousity, what leads you to believe that member benefits will be reduced,or the library will be gone, or that CP LLC would have anything to do with AMA dues, or that the lectures will not happen? And can't anyone willing to "plop down the dough" join the AMA today?

[Guest]

Mr. Flint, if your company would be more forthcoming to the membership about your aims, vision, and plans for the Lane Mansion, there would be much less need for apprehension, rumors, and speculation.

Why not tell us all what you have planned for us.

It would certainly help the members to know what to expect, and if it is going to really be an improvement on the way things are, and not take away from the experience of our members and their guests, then most will probably support your takeover. Why wouldn't they?

It's just that all of the backdoor antics and all of the secrecy about your plans for us, make the members edgy and distrustful. If you have such great ideas for improving our club members' experience, why can't we hear them?

What are your plans for the current employees?

What do you intend to do with the decor?

How are membership benefits, dues, and priviliges likely to change?

What do you plan to do differently with the entertainment?

What about the dress code, and other house rules?

How are guest passes to be handled? Will they only be available from membership, or are they being given out in other ways?

Who will be responsible for building maintenance, and heat and air, which could become even more of a problem as the building continues to age out of code?

By answering just a few of these questions, the Castle Partners could do a great deal to cut down on all the speculation.

[Steve Bryant]

My own speculation, for example, is that it must be really cool, when you are all together, to watch your heads spin 360 degrees.

[Guest]

Mr. Haydn,

At the next meeting between Castle Partners, Milt & your BOD representatives, we will answer questions posed to us.

With respect to Milt & the BOD, we can't answer your questions before answering theirs.

[Richard Kaufman]

I would suggest that the endless and numbing speculation about what Castle Partners will do should really stop until more official news becomes available. The ridiculous speculations about members' due being raised ten or twenty times, and the library being eliminated, are simply inflammatory and alarmist and not based on ANY facts whatsoever. So just put a cork in it until you have some facts and aren't just spouting a lot of nonsense.
Silence is NOT deafening. Silence means delicate negotiations are taking place and neither party wants to talk about it yet.

[Pete Biro]

While I am 100% behind whatever Milt and the Castle BOD decide, I think all the speculation and BS by those who have no clue, but are just idle gossipers should be put on hold. :whack:

[Bizzaro]

There is something dark and sinister here.. that has yet to reveal itself. Time will tell.

[Steve Bryant]

Silence means delicate negotiations are taking place and neither party wants to talk about it yet.

One of the parties doesn't even want to reveal their names. Perhaps they are just very shy.

[Guest]

Steve,

All members of Castle Partners LLC were present in the January 22 meeting with Milt & AMA representatives. They have since been posted by Dale Hindman on the Castle Forum.

[Steve Bryant]

Not quite. Dale also noted there "were others who 'might' be part of Castle Partners, but who didnt want their names disclosed until the outcome of our negotiations was known." Hmm.

[Richard Kaufman]

I had originally posted an interview with Diana Zimmerman here. However, upon announcing that I've decided not to post online the other three interviews I've conducted, but to print them in Genii instead, simple minds have jumped to foolish conclusions.
So, I have deleted the Zimmerman interview so that it will now appear only in the March issue of Genii.
My goal is doing good journalism AND selling magazines, and that must take precedence.

[Chris Aguilar]

Very interesting. Thank you for posting that Richard.

[Guest]

Yeah, thanks for posting that, Richard. It's nice to know that it was already secretly decided long before Milt's December newsletter (in which he said that all was well and that any speculations were unfounded) that he was to be relieved of his duties as the leaseholder and that he would still be allowed to participate in a clubhouse that he built with his barehands from the ground up. Nice indeed!

I also wonder if it was a coincidence that the Castle Partners formed two days after yearly AMA membership dues had been collected? But then again, maybe this is just "ridiculous" and "numbing" speculating by an inflamatory alarmist. :eek:

I am now convinced more than ever that this would be the perfect time for us to buy and move to a bigger and better place. This may have been just the incentive that members needed. A blessing in disguise.

[Guest]

Michael Flint wrote on the Magic Castle Forum:

"Mr. Haydn,
Many of your questions have been answered elsewhere on this forum in a new topic posted by Richard Kaufman. It is an interview with Diana
Zimmerman conducted on Tuesday January 27."

_____________________________________________

Thank you, Michael. And thanks to Diana as well as Richard for providing the interview. I still don't feel that my questions have been answered, and I suppose they won't be until the negotiations are underway again later next month.

My questions were:

What is your vision for the Castle, and what plans do you have to bring that vision into reality?
What changes do you have in mind for the decor?
What will your group do to revitalize the reputation of the club to its former "elite glory and luster?"
How do you plan to help the Magic Castle to "step into today?" What does that mean to you?
How would you describe the dream that Bill Larsen, Sr., Milt and Bill had for the Magic Castle, and what do you mean by "preserve its integrity?"

_____________________________________________


The closest thing to an answer is here:

Dale Hindman's letter to members:

"Nevertheless, substantial organizational revisions to the Academys governing structure can be anticipated if the Academy is to continue to manage the food, beverage and entertainment functions of The Magic Castle. Other functions of The Magic Castle may be impacted, as well. It will likely be several weeks, at least, before I have more definitive news to give you. Many of the changes will be a result of future discussions and negotiations with Castle Partners, LLC, may require amendments to the Academys Articles of Incorporation, By-Laws and operating policies, and will be detailed for you when they are known."


Diana's interview:

"The AMA is a wonderful magic organization, and Dale Hindman has done a fine job as President of the Board. Castle Partners would have no authority to change the AMA, the board of the AMA, or anything about the AMA."


_____________________________________________

Diana's interview:

"The Glover family wants very much to maintain the Magic Castle, revitalize it, and restore it to the luster it had years ago. The truth be known, their true goals were very much what Peter, Michael, Bob, Bill, and I had in mind. Despite the rumors, they definitely do not want to turn it into a different club, like a disco, or a magic club that magicians cant afford or increase the rent..."

"Castle Partners is not planning to fire the staff or do anything but improve the club, and we would like Milt Larsen to continue to be part of the Magic Castle, building and innovating as he has always done. These are issues of morality and tradition, and they are very important to Castle Partners..."

"They simply want The Magic Castle to be a place of which they can be very proud. Castle Partners realizes that business people needed to be included in the managing of it, and not just any business people, but individuals who love the Castle and what it stands for..."

Milt's letter to the members:

"But I have spent the last 42 years working every day to improve the Castle and clubhouse, and make it better every year, and I think we've done that. Its a little hard to accept that a group of people who have not been involved in that effort over all these years think that its necessary to "revitalize" the Castle's "reputation" and "restore" it to its "former elite glory and luster". I'm always willing to listen, but its hard for me to imagine how our club and clubhouse would be better off in other hands."

____________________________________________

So:

I am still left without a clear idea of what we are being saved from, what vision of the Club's "reputation" and "elite glory and luster" is being pursued, and what sort of changes in staff, management, decor, and functioning we can expect if we should decide to accept a new lease from the Castle Partners, rather than leave these decrepit old digs for a better place.

The only thing concrete I saw in Diana's interview was that club membership has fallen from a high of 7000 to only about 4000 today. So I take it she wants to do more intense recruitment of new members.

That pressure to gain membership in order to pay the new minimum lease requirement, at least among the regular members has led to a lowering of standards and a great deal of debate among the membership. I would love to know more about what the Castle Partners plan to do to fix this.

Basically, I think we are being offered a new lease on less favorable terms than we had.

We are being asked to give up income, responsibility, and authority over our clubhouse in return for other, outside people managing our club for us.

Why should we even consider it, when we really need to move to a larger, safer, more handicap and elderly-friendly, more elegant, and more secure new clubhouse anyway?

--Whit

[Bill Smith]

Whit,

To each his own, but there are a lot of great
memories in that "old decrepit digs" (your
words)!

Since I moved away from So. Cal 11 years ago,
I don't make it up to the Castle more then
once or twice a year. As one who appreciates
"Magic History", when I am at the Castle, the
memories of Bill Larsen, Peter Pit, Dai Vernon,
"Big Ed the Bartender", etc. are strong.

Last June, during The Long Beach Mystics week,
I peformed my act in The Palace of Mystery. The
last time I performed on that stage was over 18 years ago (I had not done my act in 16 years). When I stepped out on the Palace stage, it felt so comfortable, I was back home again!

In my humble opinion, The Magic Castle, 7001
Franklin Blvd. Hollywood Calif. is a sacred place!

Bill Smith AMA #R3380

[Guest]

I can certainly understand those feelings. I share them. I have been a member since 1975. I love everything the Magic Castle stands for, and the feel of the place.

But I have to admit, a big part of the feel of the place was the membership and the employees who shared in and remembered all that history together.

The building was always very cool, but never for me the star. And as much as I hate to say it, the building is the source of most of our problems now, and will be getting more and more difficult to manage in the next ten years.

We need new heat and air, and the electrical and plumbing always seem to have something going wrong. The kitchen is way too small, as are the showrooms and hallways.

Access for the handicapped and elderly is severely restricted, and the hill and traffic on Franklin can make arriving and valet parking very difficult. I worry about safety in a building that old and so far out of current building and safety and fire codes.

There is so much we could do with more space, and a safer, more comfortable building.

If we could get away from the intense traffic on Franklin and Highland, due to the new Hollywood and Highland complex and the Hollywood Bowl, I think we might be able to attract some of our old lapsed members back. Easier access and more efficient parking would be a great help.

A larger, more modern kitchen facility with better service entrances and table access would be a boost as well.

I think that many of the people who began to feel squeezed out by the Fri and Sat night crowds might return if they had a little more elbow room, less crowded hallways, places to sit and talk quietly, better food and better service, and less pressure to have dinner every time they came in.

Kuda Bux, Vernon, Joe Cossari, Hy Berg, Johnny Platt, Whitey Roberts and all the other lights of the old days liked to hang out just to talk, and never had the kind of pressure our current crowded conditions have produced on members to eat and drink and spend money. If people could get into the showrooms easily, both members and guests, whether they had dinner or not, then life would be better for everyone, and more like the good old days of our "elite glory."

Box seats and private entrances could help draw those celebrities that have been turned off by the crowds, lines, and waits--although Nicholas Cage was in a couple of weeks ago, and evidentally there are still plenty of other celebrities like him who are willing to put up with those problems for the sake of a good magic show. Better conditions would draw even more.

Plus a real magic museum, some new feature illusions--like Irma and the sinking stool--and other possible attractions that could be added if we had room would help increase the draw of our clubhouse.

Take any of the problems brought up by the Castle Partners so far, and it seems to me that they are better solved by moving to a new place.

[Richard Kaufman]

Whit, I really have to question your desire to listen to anything Castle Partners has to say if the ONLY thing you say you learned from my interview with Diana Zimmerman is that the membership in the Magic Castle has decreased.
Your statement is ridiculous. In my interview Ms. Zimmerman CLEARLY explained many things regarding how Castle Partners would deal with the AMA. None of that had been stated before. There are numerous other details explained which were not elaborated on in their brief mission statement.
Read it again.

[Guest]

No offense but since when did a statement in an interview become gospel? I don't have a say in the matter I just hope it ends up well for the members and that Milt isn' dumped on his ass to live out the rest of his life with a sense of failure because of this.
Steve V

[Richard Kaufman]

First there's a lot of yelling about how Castle Partners hasn't given out much information. So, information has now been given out.
What's the result? Remarks like "when is a statement in an interview gospel."
If you want to know why Castle Partners hadn't given out any information prior to the interview, remarks like that should make it plain.
You asked for information and now you've gotten it. It has answered many questions, such as how the AMA will remain an independent non-profit organization without interference from Castle Partners.
And since Castle Partners have clearly indicated that they want to keep Milt Larsen involved, I don't see how they are tossing him out, as you put it. While Milt Larsen has renovated and beautified the Magic Castle and done many wonderful things for it, it might be a good time to remember that for the greater part of its 40 year history the Castle was run by Bill Larsen, Jr., and Milt was not involved AT ALL. He was involved in other business ventures.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Steve V':
No offense but since when did a statement in an interview become gospel? I don't have a say in the matter I just hope it ends up well for the members and that Milt isn' dumped on his ass to live out the rest of his life with a sense of failure because of this.
Steve V

First, "No offense", but who said an interview WAS gospel? That would be your interpretataion. Second, if you think anyone is "dumping Milt on his ass" you don't know Milt. And finally, I find it unlikely in the extreme that anything that results from these negotiations will leave Milt living out his life "with a sense of failure"! Again, if that's what you think, you don't know Milt.

The tone that has been set by some members here is rational and logical, an effort to determine what is being proposed, and what is the best course of action for all concerned. We may not agree on some or ANY of this, but we can agree to follow that tone of rationality. Escalating tempers through innuendo and rumor serves all concerned poorly. Ad hominem attack negates all that precedes OR follows it in that persons argument. And speaking for people who are capable of speaking for themselves, but seem to have chosen to wait to do so, serves them badly, if at all. I'm sure Milt will speak to these issues when he feels the time is right. I for one, am willing to wait to hear what Milt has to say...

Best, PSC

[Guest]

Hi there. Well, grab a cup of coffee and be prepared, this is a LONG ramble on the matter. Most of this I have already chawed on forums at the Magic Castle site. For those of you who read this there, forgive my repeating it here. I feel these words relevant to the discussion forum here as well. So, for what it is worth, here is another view on what is happening with the clubhouse of the Academy of Magical Arts.

Yes, there are real problems that people are envisioning on the horizon given the situation betwixt the AMA and the new CASTLE LLC. But, those are only minor compared to the real underlying factor in this whole thing, and, that is our clubhouse has grown too small and too old for the AMAs current needs.

Several years ago (long before this became a real issue) I plotted out on paper the reasons for the growth of our organization into either an expanded physical structure upon the site where we now sit, or, re-locating to some new facility that offers the expansion probabilities needed for our organization to grow into. Push has come to shove, as they say. And, as much as I love the mansion we park our collectives selves into, it is only a house with rooms and space.

The creativity that created the showrooms, the gags, the hidden surprises...that spark of imagination is still there...and, can be better re-born from a clear drawing board than one that has been designed upon for these last several years. Technology has advanced. Magic has advanced. Our performance spaces need expanding, the dining facilities need growth...everything that Whit and most folks have stated as needs I can only echo here. And, from the aspect of trying to manuever a route through our current residence when at full capacity, well, the thought of having better passageways and wider space alone excites me!

The words have been said...larger library with better hours. A well developed museum. In the right location, who is to say that a large enough theatre to support our awards show and the yearly "IT'S MAGIC" production couldn't be a part of our future venue? Perhaps a theatre of such scope that it is open to the public on regular basis (with an entrance attached to the rest of a future club house for members...), the mind boggles at the possible probables re-location can bring.

A house is only a house. A physical structure. It takes the people who live in it to make it a home. Families grow and expand. As the family gets larger, it often has to move. Leaving the environment that has been comfortable and home is rough. Anyone who has moved in their life can attest to this. We become creatures of habit, accustomed to our environments and surroundings. Change is one of the greatest experiences in the world, no matter how frightening or dramatic it may seem. And, it is change that prompts growth...growth that keeps us alive and vital...keeps our mind active, ready to learn something new, to create something better, to find that new road to move along.

Larger space means more display area for Milt's collection of variety arts artifacts. After a short talk with Milt one evening at the bar I was amazed to find out how many truly remarkable antiques and memorabilia of variety art entertainment (of which magic is an aspect) he has tucked away in stowage. Everything from the handful of props we now can see to several of Spike Jones' gimmicked musical instruments! (And much more, as I found out.) There is a wealth that can be garnered from galavanting about amidst such displays.

Already mentioned is the development of a "REAL" museum. Why can't this be something that is open on a daily basis to the general public? A money drawing affair that helps meet capital gain needs to build and develop the new arena for the club? Hollywood is a budding market for such entertainment history museums. The history of variety entertainment, magic, novelty act, dramatic...the realm of vaudeville...is one that is ripe for the sharing. And, one that Milt and those of us who are excited about facing new horizons and developments could easily bring into life. Perhaps with a small theatre for daily performances by rotating performers of magic and variety arts...a teaser to get folks hooked on the concept of somehow enjoying an evening at the actual club attached.

No matter what our clubhouse is called or referred to as, the name that is important (to me at least) is, The Academy Of Magical Arts. That is the one name that truly represents what the clubhouse is about, and, perhaps, the one name that deserves more recognition and bantering about in the public eye. Most folk know about us as, "The Magic Castle". I know several performers and practitioners of our craft/art who merely say, "...and, I'm a member of 'The Magic Castle'. Very seldom do I hear such folk open up with, "...and, I'm a member of the Academy Of Magical Arts". In fact, I have tried that a few times when meeting clients or organizations in attempts to get my act hired. 98% of the time, I received a look that said, "HUH?" I quickly tagged it with, "Most members simply call it the 'Magic Castle'." Suddenly the client's eyes light up with recognition and wonder. "Oh," they gush, "The Magic Castle! Amazing place!

Name recognition. What is funny is that we (The Academy) are more recognized for our clubhouse and what it offers than what we (The Academy) are really about. People know that the Magic Castle is a clubhouse of a group of professional and/or seemingly prestigious magicians. In fact, it is a clubhouse of magicians. Any other term places levels and spaces betwixt us as members...something I feel shouldn't belong. I digress.

People also know and recognize the Magic Castle as a unique dining and entertainment experience for a "one-of-a-kind" event by which they can go "on the town". Corporate and business people recognize the "Schmooze factor" for taking clients to our exclusive clubhouse for building better business relations...Hollywood's elite and entertainment figures see us as a place to be entertained and seen. None of those are bad things. From each of those sources come income that we, the Academy, need to continue our development and pay for the services rendered by our clubhouse. Still, people (for the most part) recognize all of that as being, THE MAGIC CASTLE. Only a handful recognize the fact that all they enjoy is brought to them by, THE ACADEMY OF MAGICAL ARTS.

To compare this, take the "Oscars". Each year, people watch the televised awarding of that statue to the top names in the motion picture industry. The actual name of the organization that gives those awards, "The Academy Of Motion Pictures Art & Sciences" is so bantered that it is known as the true agency behind the event. Heck, even the show that is televised is known as, "The ACADEMY Awards." That 'Academy' is so recognized that they even don't have to place the rest of their name into the title!

Very few people recognize that, when they come to our clubhouse on Glover Hill, they are going to a function brought to them by, The Academy Of Magical Arts. Admittedly, 'The Magic Castle' is a much catchier phrase and less of a mouthful to cough out each time you say it. We are known more as our clubhouse than as the organization behind the clubhouse. And, we are not a structure of cement, wire, and wood. We are a living, breathing, rearranging, conglomerate of human beings who perform and enjoy - either professionally or otherwise - the variety art/craft of magic. And, no matter where that embodiment goes, no matter what name a future clubhouse will be known under, there we are. (Sorry, couldn't resist the moment of Zen. ;) ) We are "The Academy", not, "The Magic Castle". We are the people who make the Magic Castle what it is as a professional dining and entertainment experience that gets the name brand of our clubhouse recognized. We are the "inbetweens" that exist between the main images people retain when they visit our clubhouse. You know, the "and there were these folks who were also doing magic in the basement, on little tables, at the bars and were also very entertaining" references when our guests come home with their trip reports. Most of our attending guests don't take the time to realize we are actually their "hosts" while they spend their evening in our clubhouse. Most of our guests don't even realize who we are. And, I find that a sad thing, indeed.

So - the current situation betwixt Glovers/Castle LLC and the Academy is, to me at least, a good one. It is one that stands to remove us from a place that we no longer belong...and to force us into finding a new home for our group and organization...a home that better reflects who we are as an organization and retains the honored history we have developed over the last four generations. It is a well given fact we need better facilities and space for our endeavors as 'The Academy Of Magical Arts'. This could be the moment in time we are finally recognized for the embodiment we are, and, not the name of the clubhouse we inhabit. And that, to me, at least, is exciting.

In truth, however, it is hard to know what the outcome will be. Personally, I think the best solution is the Academy finding a new home. Better space, improved facilities...these are the factors we should focus our energy upon. Let the LLC ring their bell and hear that toll. We have our own route and road. It is time to eagerly begin relocation (if it falls to that) and working on creating a new and improved clubhouse for our organization in the 21st Century. I am a firm believer in the factor that time has come for the Academy to move to a new site, entirely. There are so many great buildings in Hollywood and the ready surroundings that would offer a marvelous site for our organization...buildings seeped in "show biz" history and full of their own stories to tell and interweave with the mythology of our own.

We spend our time speculating whether or not this great take-over will transpire, and will the LLC succeed in changing the historic clubhouse and space? When a embodiment of power players embark upon a mission such as this, and, that LLC is definitely well embarked and well endowed with the level of fiscal support they need to achieve their goal, chances are good that they will succeed. Take a look at the lineup of players that has been listed. Then, consider their connections to other major names who have yet to be stated as members of the LLC, but, who just might be there. We then must consider some of the top names currently appearing on the Las Vegas magic circuit...and elsewheres. I fear there will be no real way for our organization to stand up to this.

But, then again, why should we? If this group wants to come in and make the hillside a full entertainment venue of dining, entertainment, and lodgings...a smaller "resort destination", if you will, let them. We (the Academy) were started as a club for magicians. We share our clubhouse with the public - by invitation. We openly invite magicians around the world to join us. We offer the best in what we do as a professional group to performers and hobbyists alike. What we offer and do is not what this new organization wishes to produce. What they seek is another version of a "Ceasar's Magical Empire" on California's coast. And, it would seem that they have the money to do it. All they receive from us is the established audience we have built over the last several decades of guests who have attended events and dinners at our facilities. And, that is a rather major theft article we stand to lose.

Still - let them take the house. Let them have the bare walls and problems the old building offers. Let us move and go elsewhere. It is obvious we are loyal to our organization and our founder. The voices speak for themselves in acknowledging that we could and should build a better facility for our Academy someplace new. The Academy continues. Look (as a strange example) at Madison Square Gardens in New York. It is no longer square (it is now round) and has moved several times since it was first built. Still, it is Madison Square. The spirit it carries has never changed...the home of New York events and spectacles. The Academy has reached a point in our history where we need to expand our facilities and move. This moment in time is one of the greatest gifts we have been put through. No matter where we go, we will still be the Academy of Magical Arts. And, the spirit and soul that has been created and carried over the last few decades will stay with us where ever we move.

I have read much over these pages about concerns with the board and with the landlords and with monetary matters. These are all valid issues. But, they are only spokes that extend from the core reality that rises above all other issues...our organization. The one thing that truly matters in this is not our location, not who does what for whom, but, the Academy of Magical Arts. That is the one thing that deserves our focus and attention. So, if we are faced with manure falling in our proverbial faces then let us take that pile of waste and sow it into the ground and build something better than we ever have had before. It is time for change; let us change with it. Let us leave the manor behind and find an amazing realm in which we shall manifest our wonders into. Milt, I am there with you. Ready to work, to paint, to build, to design...to dream a better horizon than the last several decades could have manifested at all. There is only one thing I don't want to lose. And that is the Academy of Magical Arts. Anything else exists as aspects of the game. As long as the core remains we shall have another day.

I keep on getting back to the same points - the Academy is our focus, not the house or properties on "Glover Hill". Building something new and better that we have not seen before...that is the goal we need to work upon and guide visions toward. In that, we are using our creative forces in ways that profit us all, and not catching ourselves in the spiraling nets of speculation.

And, in fact, that is all anything currently isspeculation. Be it what we see as happening in the next few weeks and days, be it what is reported in an interview (for interviews are given in order to best present only one side of a thingit takes many interviews with all parties involved to be able to get a clear picture of that which is really happening), whatever curious thought about this we are currently expressingit is speculation. Not until all the cards are presented on the table and Milt and the representative body of the AMA have come to terms with Castle LLC will any definite knowledge be earned. And, until that point, it is best to hold faith in Milt and what he will work towards.

A final thought. An ancient race once said..."May you live in interesting times..." Well, these are definitely interesting enough for me!

Okay enough rambling for me. Lets go out and catch donuts and coffee! :D

Kd
:cool:

[Guest]

Speaking strictly as a member of the AMA, I keep coming back to the same question......If we weren't too big for the Castle when we had 7000 members (and the respective revenue base) how is it that at 4ooo members we have outgrown the Castle and need more space?

[Chris Aguilar]

^^^Perhaps the 4000 members are giving out more guest passes these days then in the halcyon days of 7000 members?

Or perhaps a greater percentage of the current 4000 live locally and use more of the clubs resources then when there were 7000 members? Was the number of "non resident" members higher back in the day?

I have no facts to support this, but merely throw it out as a possibility. I could very well be completely wrong here. Do we have hard figures as to the amount of guest passes given out (and used) per year? Do we know whether the percentage of "non resident" memberships has decreased?

[Steve V]

When quoting me try cut and paste, that way the little changes won't alter statements. It was said that

>In my interview Ms. Zimmerman CLEARLY explained many things regarding how Castle Partners would deal with the AMA.

That implies that because it was said in an interview that it is true. Since he word gospel, which has a mean of 'good new' and where I was raised means 'the truth' as slang, bothers you I ask it this way, when did the fact someone makes a statement to you in an interview make it the truth? I didn't say anyone lied I was wondering about how a Kaufman interview makes folks honest while people lie or misrepresent in interviews all the time.

I also do not know, nor will I likely ever know, Milt Larsen. I guess I'll have to go by what was said, if for some reason he is bounced he will not consider it a failure but another success.

Again, I hope the members win regardless of which group runs the freakin' place.
Steve V
Steve V

[Guest]

I've been following this discussion with avid interest, as many have. It seems to me that there is really not enough information to make judgements regarding the intention of the Castle Partners, LLC. They clearly feel they can do better, and doing better may involve changes, but whether they are "genuine" in their statements or not is impossible to tell. And that is not necessarily a sign of bad intent. It is impossible to negotiate in a fishbowl, to make proposals, bargain, modify positions, evaluate counterproposals, etc. without undue pressure, if everything is being watched and commented on by everybody. Whether the AMA is doing a good job minding the store is again not the Castle Partners, LLC's responsibility. What I can gather is that the Magic Castle is wearing out as a building, and not bringing in, or almost not bringing in, enough money to support itself. The Castle Partners, LLC feel that with some professional management of the food, etc. this may be reversible. They feel they have the business background to do this. And doing it may involve investing more money, and making some changes, all of which would be hard to do by the AMA, which is really not a business or run like a business.

I do know that running a successful food/beverage/entertainment operation separates the men from the boys. It is very hard to do well, and requires money and very good management. It also would seem that if there was an easy fix, where nothing had to change, then it would have been done by the AMA. So, it would seem to me that some things would need to change to save the club at the present location. The Glovers aparently either want a better return on their investment, which is their right, or want to feel confident that things are stable and improving, not always on the brink of disaster. Given that, and that the AMA & Milt apparently do not have credibility with them in this regard, then there would seem to be little choice but to do something more drastic.

Whether "the cure will be worse than the disease", or acceptable to the members, or better than moving, I don't know. And I don't know if the Castle Partners, LLC are genuine or not. But trying to read intent in the tea leaves we have been given is beyond my powers (and I suspect everyone else's) as a mentalist.

[John Clarkson]

The Glovers have the right to sell the property or lease it to whomever they wish. The new owners or lessees, clearly, have the right to lease or sublease The Castle to the AMA. Moreover, as the new landlords, they will the power to negotiate for new terms to the lease agreement. From a business and legal standpoint, of course, there is nothing wrong or unusual about this.

I am not willing to presume bad intentions on the part of The Castle Partners, LLC. I am even willing, until I see evidence to the contrary, to believe Ms. Zimmerman when she says, "Castle Partners is not planning to fire the staff or do anything but improve the club, and we would like Milt Larsen to continue to be part of the Magic Castle, building and innovating as he has always done."

However, as a long-term member of the AMA I am offended by the process. Milt described it as "underhanded." At very best, it doesn't appear especially forthright, and appearance of propriety is often as important as propriety itself.

I voted for members of a Board of Directors to look after the interests of the AMA and The Castle. I don't recall our having elected Ms. Zimmerman or the Castle Partners, LLC to "improve the club." Her comment in the interview with Richard seems just a tad (unintentionally?) patronizing. Let our new landlords put aside their apparent altruism and look after their own best interests while we, the members of the AMA, look after ours. I don't want to be saved from myself by a group of well-intentioned officious interlopers.

My hope, then, is that our current Board of Directors will simply say to The Castle Partners, LLC, "Thanks, but no thanks. We prefer to improve the club by our own initiative and the vote of the membership. We don't want to do it under fire from an outside group, no matter how much it assures us that it has our best interests at heart. If that means the AMA must relocate, then we will."

Perhaps Ms. Zimmerman and friends can, in some vague and distant future, run for election to the Board of Directors of the AMA and exercise power with more apparent, freely given, consent of the membership. In the meantime, as much as I dislike the idea of leaving our present home, perhaps it is, after all, time to start looking for better arrangements.

John Clarkson AMA #R 3299