Trouble reading books
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Trouble reading books
Does anyone else have trouble reading magic books.Like I have apocalypse the big book vol.2
David roth Expert coin magic and Coinmagic.Those are the 3 books that have the most information taht I havent even gone through.The apocalypse book has over 250 card tricks and slieght,you think I would be interested in opening the book because Im a card guy,I love hard tricks and practicimg slieghts thats the most fun part of magic.I just recently got more into coin magic and found those 2 books.I kind of know why I rather watch videos but I have this great book Roger Klause in Concert that doesnt even have alot of card material but I love to read it and look through the book.This may sound very funny but heres why.It has clean White pages and photos they look like you took a picture and had it developed.They dont look printed on paper.The book is perfectly written too.After each trick Roger will talk about lots of things that are very interesting like conventins and practice and he give the history behind each trick.The neatest part is there will be a big picture of david williamson on 1 page and the next will be David talking about Roger.There are many magicians that have those on the book.Do anyone know a book like this one.Just like clean glossy pages and photographs.I know it sounds funny but thats what draws me into a book.
David roth Expert coin magic and Coinmagic.Those are the 3 books that have the most information taht I havent even gone through.The apocalypse book has over 250 card tricks and slieght,you think I would be interested in opening the book because Im a card guy,I love hard tricks and practicimg slieghts thats the most fun part of magic.I just recently got more into coin magic and found those 2 books.I kind of know why I rather watch videos but I have this great book Roger Klause in Concert that doesnt even have alot of card material but I love to read it and look through the book.This may sound very funny but heres why.It has clean White pages and photos they look like you took a picture and had it developed.They dont look printed on paper.The book is perfectly written too.After each trick Roger will talk about lots of things that are very interesting like conventins and practice and he give the history behind each trick.The neatest part is there will be a big picture of david williamson on 1 page and the next will be David talking about Roger.There are many magicians that have those on the book.Do anyone know a book like this one.Just like clean glossy pages and photographs.I know it sounds funny but thats what draws me into a book.
Re: Trouble reading books
It is difficult to read magic books and hold a thought, to plow thru moves and turns and sleights and holds and keep them all straight in yor head and in your hands. It is much easier to see it on video.
It has always been difficult to read and understand a magic book. That is why you need to have a dedication to the art to wade thru all that crap. It is also the reason that print exposure is generally rather harmless...those layfolks can't remember squat. No interest, no desire and plenty other things to worry about.
The value of DVD's is obvious, the drawbacks more subtle: your style will be the demonstrator's style. You will not wiggle things around to make it your own. So it goes.
Most authors do not pay much attention to page layout, and the page can get cloggy pretty easily, difficult to wade thru. You are not alone.
It has always been difficult to read and understand a magic book. That is why you need to have a dedication to the art to wade thru all that crap. It is also the reason that print exposure is generally rather harmless...those layfolks can't remember squat. No interest, no desire and plenty other things to worry about.
The value of DVD's is obvious, the drawbacks more subtle: your style will be the demonstrator's style. You will not wiggle things around to make it your own. So it goes.
Most authors do not pay much attention to page layout, and the page can get cloggy pretty easily, difficult to wade thru. You are not alone.
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Re: Trouble reading books
I have a large collection of video/dvd's which I really enjoy watching. However, for REAL enjoyment, I'll pick up a book. I think an author can impart far more of the "nitty-gritty" in the written word as opposed to a demonstrator on a video. You miss the "nuance's" that can't, for the most part, be shown.
Of course, there are authors and then there are authors. Richard Kaufman and Harry Lorayne are two of the best.
Having said that, I find it sometimes very difficult to read a paragraph, hold the cards, keep the pages from "self-turning" and do the work. THAT's why I like the Stephen Minch/Martin Nash trilogy so much: Spiral Binding.
Steve V.....loved your comment!!
In many cases, I've been able to "read" a move or a routine, and then find the same routine on a video. Two approaches are often better than just one.
Regards,
Adrian
Of course, there are authors and then there are authors. Richard Kaufman and Harry Lorayne are two of the best.
Having said that, I find it sometimes very difficult to read a paragraph, hold the cards, keep the pages from "self-turning" and do the work. THAT's why I like the Stephen Minch/Martin Nash trilogy so much: Spiral Binding.
Steve V.....loved your comment!!
In many cases, I've been able to "read" a move or a routine, and then find the same routine on a video. Two approaches are often better than just one.
Regards,
Adrian
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Re: Trouble reading books
Maxrod88,
It's not glossy and the pictures aren't gigantic, but the anecdotal writing style, amusing candid photos, and large format of Simon Lovell's first book, Simon Says, make it a very entertaining read. Plus, it's focused almost entirely on card magic, so it may be just the book you're looking for.
(On the other hand, if you had said that you hated photos and could even do without legibility at times, The Lost Notebooks of John Northern Hilliard is in a class by itself -- and a great book just the same!)
Best,
Neil Tobin
It's not glossy and the pictures aren't gigantic, but the anecdotal writing style, amusing candid photos, and large format of Simon Lovell's first book, Simon Says, make it a very entertaining read. Plus, it's focused almost entirely on card magic, so it may be just the book you're looking for.
(On the other hand, if you had said that you hated photos and could even do without legibility at times, The Lost Notebooks of John Northern Hilliard is in a class by itself -- and a great book just the same!)
Best,
Neil Tobin
Neil Tobin, Necromancer
- Matthew Field
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Re: Trouble reading books
Excuse me while I kill myself.
Matt Field
Matt Field
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Re: Trouble reading books
Roger klause in cincert is fun to read even know most of the material was not card magic but still fun.Are other Lance peirce books like this?John cornelius
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Re: Trouble reading books
One of the biggest problems with books is that many of the people who write them aren't actually writers, except by default. Some of them are photographers, others are magicians, but they may not be aware of how to present material in such a way that it is easy to understand.
Lewis Ganson, rest his soul, was very difficult to understand. In a way, it is amazing that anyone can do any of the Dai Vernon material that he wrote up. But his photographs were great.
One of the best writers of all time was Walter B. Gibson. He made it easy to understand. I think he could have described the most complex sleights known to man in a way that anyone could have understood them.
I was fortunate enough to meet Walter at the TAOM convention in Fort Worth in 1977. I got to tell him how much I admired his style. I wish I had known him better. But at least I got to meet him and tell him what I felt. He seemed to like it!
I don't know whether learning from DVD's necessarily produces performers who have the same style as the presenter. It might, but I seriously doubt it, except in the cases of new magicians. These are the same guys who would perform the way the demonstrator at the magic shop performs.
Learning from a book requires a system, whether the book is well or poorly written. The reader must first figure out what needs to be accomplished, and then break it down into steps that make it easy to learn. This is actually a job that the writer should have done, but usually doesn't do.
In a thread at another restaurant, I mean, forum, I recommended a system for learning from books, which basically boiled down to making an outline, then filling in the steps.
Gerald Edmundson's The Ostrich Factor gives a method for practice and rehearsal that will help most of us figure out how to work on new material.
Lewis Ganson, rest his soul, was very difficult to understand. In a way, it is amazing that anyone can do any of the Dai Vernon material that he wrote up. But his photographs were great.
One of the best writers of all time was Walter B. Gibson. He made it easy to understand. I think he could have described the most complex sleights known to man in a way that anyone could have understood them.
I was fortunate enough to meet Walter at the TAOM convention in Fort Worth in 1977. I got to tell him how much I admired his style. I wish I had known him better. But at least I got to meet him and tell him what I felt. He seemed to like it!
I don't know whether learning from DVD's necessarily produces performers who have the same style as the presenter. It might, but I seriously doubt it, except in the cases of new magicians. These are the same guys who would perform the way the demonstrator at the magic shop performs.
Learning from a book requires a system, whether the book is well or poorly written. The reader must first figure out what needs to be accomplished, and then break it down into steps that make it easy to learn. This is actually a job that the writer should have done, but usually doesn't do.
In a thread at another restaurant, I mean, forum, I recommended a system for learning from books, which basically boiled down to making an outline, then filling in the steps.
Gerald Edmundson's The Ostrich Factor gives a method for practice and rehearsal that will help most of us figure out how to work on new material.
Bill Palmer, MIMC
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Re: Trouble reading books
Don't get me wrong, Matt -- I love the Hilliard book! Everybody I know who owns it loves this book!Originally posted by Matthew Field:
Excuse me while I kill myself.
Matt Field
In this instance, it simply falls outside Maxrod88's confining criteria. (Heaven knows, you can't please everyone.)
My thanks to the Genii team for producing such outstanding work,
Neil Tobin
Neil Tobin, Necromancer
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Re: Trouble reading books
I can't say there's been mention of Barbara Eden even once as long as I've been reading this forum. Go figure. :rolleyes:Originally posted by Necromancer:
...In this instance, it simply falls outside Maxrod88's confining criteria. (Heaven knows, you can't please everyone.)...
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
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Re: Trouble reading books
Maxrod88,
I understand how you feel. Here are some of the coping mechanisms that I have used over the years:
Get a sense of a particular effect you want to learn out of one of the books you have--this forum can help you with that. Then go right to that effect and spend time with it. Don't try to read the book cover to cover like a novel.
Learning magic from a book is more like studying than reading. Study slowly--take your time. If you don't understand something--don't just plow ahead--try to go back and clear up the misunderstanding.
Underline the "things that are said" in one color ink.
Underline the "things that are done" in another color ink.
Look up any and all words you do not understand--magic related and otherwise.
Read the entire effect/routine several times. Each time you read it--strive for a better understanding.
Make a list of all of the sleights and practice them outside of the context of the routine.
Once you have learned the effect--go back to the text to pick up finer points and nuances.
As you study--make notes in the margin.
Hope this helps!
Cesar
I understand how you feel. Here are some of the coping mechanisms that I have used over the years:
Get a sense of a particular effect you want to learn out of one of the books you have--this forum can help you with that. Then go right to that effect and spend time with it. Don't try to read the book cover to cover like a novel.
Learning magic from a book is more like studying than reading. Study slowly--take your time. If you don't understand something--don't just plow ahead--try to go back and clear up the misunderstanding.
Underline the "things that are said" in one color ink.
Underline the "things that are done" in another color ink.
Look up any and all words you do not understand--magic related and otherwise.
Read the entire effect/routine several times. Each time you read it--strive for a better understanding.
Make a list of all of the sleights and practice them outside of the context of the routine.
Once you have learned the effect--go back to the text to pick up finer points and nuances.
As you study--make notes in the margin.
Hope this helps!
Cesar
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Re: Trouble reading books
Thank you all for the help.
Im just picky I guess its hard for me to pick up a card magic book,But then again Ilove reading roger klause's book.Its written VERY well.Are all Lance peirce books like this one?
Im just picky I guess its hard for me to pick up a card magic book,But then again Ilove reading roger klause's book.Its written VERY well.Are all Lance peirce books like this one?
Re: Trouble reading books
If I understand you correctly you want recommendations for books based on the paper and if photo's are used in abundance rather than illustrations?
Steve V
Steve V
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Re: Trouble reading books
Yes....sorry to be so picky
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Re: Trouble reading books
Matt:
Pass the arsenic. :rolleyes:
Michael
Pass the arsenic. :rolleyes:
Michael
Re: Trouble reading books
Properly, we should read for power. Man reading should be man intensely alive. The book should be a ball of light in one's hand.
-Ezra Pound
Indeed, sirs,if you have trouble reading books, worry not! Drop them entirely. I think, certainly in the modern world, there is plently of salve for any minor qualms one might feel about joining the insignificant majority. In fact, I hear it's rather in these days to be a person of little moment, and quite fashionable, I hear, to explain away one's incability to produce deeds of any uniqueness, or even momentary significance, by simply blaming such failures on external forces. (And we don't call them failures!).
This brings to mind Seneca's quote,
"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare,
It is because we do not dare, that they are difficult!"
-Ezra Pound
Indeed, sirs,if you have trouble reading books, worry not! Drop them entirely. I think, certainly in the modern world, there is plently of salve for any minor qualms one might feel about joining the insignificant majority. In fact, I hear it's rather in these days to be a person of little moment, and quite fashionable, I hear, to explain away one's incability to produce deeds of any uniqueness, or even momentary significance, by simply blaming such failures on external forces. (And we don't call them failures!).
This brings to mind Seneca's quote,
"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare,
It is because we do not dare, that they are difficult!"
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Re: Trouble reading books
Maxrod--
The Regal books (Constant Fooling 1 & 2, and Close-Up and Personal) have glossy pages, photos, and outstanding material.
While other posters call out for poison and yearn for suicide, I will simply say that in making this choice you will be excluding some of the greatest material out there. No Stewart James, no Shigeo Takagi, no Annemann, etc.
But the Regal books are good.
The Regal books (Constant Fooling 1 & 2, and Close-Up and Personal) have glossy pages, photos, and outstanding material.
While other posters call out for poison and yearn for suicide, I will simply say that in making this choice you will be excluding some of the greatest material out there. No Stewart James, no Shigeo Takagi, no Annemann, etc.
But the Regal books are good.
Driver: Callaway FT-5
Irons: Titlest AP-1
Wedges: Vokey 52,58,64
Putter: i-series Black #9
Irons: Titlest AP-1
Wedges: Vokey 52,58,64
Putter: i-series Black #9
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Re: Trouble reading books
How to read a book:
1. Cradle the volume in the right hand, with the cover facing you (the cover will have the title and usually the author's name).
2. Use the left thumb and first finger to grip the right side of the cover and then move upwards and to the left until a page with printing on it is exposed. If the page exposed is blank, continue the left hand action until a printed page appears.
3. Grip the left side of the book, left thumb above, fingers below. Assume a mirrored position on the right side.
4. Read. Do not move your lips.
1. Cradle the volume in the right hand, with the cover facing you (the cover will have the title and usually the author's name).
2. Use the left thumb and first finger to grip the right side of the cover and then move upwards and to the left until a page with printing on it is exposed. If the page exposed is blank, continue the left hand action until a printed page appears.
3. Grip the left side of the book, left thumb above, fingers below. Assume a mirrored position on the right side.
4. Read. Do not move your lips.
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Re: Trouble reading books
Thank you bill
I guess because Ive been in magic for 8 years and most of the people that are answering this question are alot older than me and/or
been in magic alot longer which means there were no videos back then and you had to learn from books
I guess because Ive been in magic for 8 years and most of the people that are answering this question are alot older than me and/or
been in magic alot longer which means there were no videos back then and you had to learn from books
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Re: Trouble reading books
Your directions don't seem to work with my Hebrew, Chinese and Japanese books, Bob. Is there a patch available, or do I have to upgrade to BookReading 2.0 (with international support)?Originally posted by Bob Farmer:
2. Use the left thumb and first finger to grip the right side of the cover and then move upwards and to the left until a page with printing on it is exposed. If the page exposed is blank, continue the left hand action until a printed page appears.
-Jim
Re: Trouble reading books
Max, for some of us reading is a pleasure not a chore. Good luck with your endevours.
Steve V
Steve V
Re: Trouble reading books
Although reading a book can sometimes be hard, it is ussually pleasurable for me at the same time. No matter how hard it may seem, I try to get through it. I would take DVD's or videos as a last resort.
Re: Trouble reading books
Funny...I've only a bit more than half your expierience with magic, (and so, am probably your junior.). Don't think age is really the issue...Originally posted by maxrod88:
Thank you bill
I guess because Ive been in magic for 8 years and most of the people that are answering this question are alot older than me and/or
been in magic alot longer which means there were no videos back then and you had to learn from books
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Re: Trouble reading books
Im just saying when you first started in magic there might not been any videos around.Me on the other hand had hundreds of videos because I started around 1996
Re: Trouble reading books
Yes, that's the way I do it, but for those people who say "I can't learn things from a book," I suggest that they read the directions aloud.Originally posted by Bob Farmer:
4. Read. Do not move your lips.
You can do that without moving your lips, of course.
"All right? S\'alright!"
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Re: Trouble reading books
Bob just needs to put his "how to read" directions on video, and voila! All the "visual learners" will be served". :)
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Re: Trouble reading books
This may be the case. There have always been people who had trouble learning from books. There always will be. On the other hand, there is a whole lot more material available in books than there is on DVD's.Originally posted by maxrod88:
Thank you bill
I guess because Ive been in magic for 8 years and most of the people that are answering this question are alot older than me and/or
been in magic alot longer which means there were no videos back then and you had to learn from books
The earliest commercial instruction videos started coming out in the 1970's. Some were of very high quality, some of them had very low production values. And the range of material was not very great. When you consider the cost of a video back then to the cost of a book, it had to be a really good video to get my money. I didn't purchase many, because I was accustomed to learning from books.
But there was another source, that you haven't seemed to consider. And that is other magicians. Private lessons are far superior to DVD's. I learned to do the diagonal palm shift from Roger Klause. I learned the retention vanish from David Roth. I learned the Downs Coin Star from Bobby Bernard. I paid for them. And it was worth it. Well, Roger taught me the DPS without charge, because he is a friend of mine, but these lessons went very quickly in all cases, because they were very intense, and there was instant feedback.
Consider attending lectures, as well. Those are an immense help. Join your local magic club. Meet some people. People are still the best source of information.
But back to the topic.
Several years ago, there was a kid here in Houston who was very interested in magic. He was taking private lessons from one of our local fellows who was a very good teacher. But David had a learning disability, so he thought he couldn't learn from books. At one point, his instructor told him, "David, I've taught you everything I can. Now it's up to you. You have to learn from books."
He was shocked. He was dismayed. "I can't learn from books. I can barely read." He was in the 10th grade, and had been "socially promoted," because the school system was more interested in having students feel good about themselves than having them actually learn something (HORRORS!!!!)
But David's love for magic was stronger than his inability to read. He started with Tarbell 1. That was his primer. By the time he reached his senior year in High School, he had learned to read at a 12th grade level. The special ed classes didn't do it. HE DID IT, HIMSELF.
So, are you going to be satisfied with predigested magic ... or will you take the big step and learn to learn from books?
BTW, I was called by Volunteers In Public Schools to do a presentation for a special ed class on how to be a professional magician. I was able to get David out of class long enough to accompany me. I did a couple of tricks. Then David dazzled them with some brilliant close-up. When he finally had them eating out of the palm of his hand, he said, "I used to be one of you. I was learning disabled. Or at least, that's what I believed. Now I know the truth. I was LAZY! JUST! LIKE! YOU!!!! Get off your butts and learn to read!"
Bill Palmer, MIMC
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Re: Trouble reading books
If the guy can't read a book, he's not going to be able to read these posts.
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Re: Trouble reading books
The pictures are fun to color with condiments. The glossy paper stock gives the tempura a better texture later when the binding sauce and garnishes have been added to the dish. Enjoy.
Some of us find the DVDs a bit bland, worse than tofu. What do you spice them with?
Some of us find the DVDs a bit bland, worse than tofu. What do you spice them with?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
Re: Trouble reading books
Originally posted by Stuart Hooper:
Funny...I've only a bit more than half your expierience with magic, (and so, am probably your junior.). Don't think age is really the issue... [/b]Originally posted by maxrod88:
[b] Thank you bill
I guess because Ive been in magic for 8 years and most of the people that are answering this question are alot older than me and/or
been in magic alot longer which means there were no videos back then and you had to learn from books
Im just saying when you first started in magic there might not been any videos around.Me on the other hand had hundreds of videos because I started around 1996
[ December 22, 2004, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: maxrod88 ]
Indeed...If the guy can't read a book, he's not going to be able to read these posts.
I started magic in 2000, maxrod, for the record.
All need to remember, however, that the most important books on magic aren't Magic instruction manuals.
Re: Trouble reading books
Kind of like if you need a phone service you should call 1-800 ... ....?Originally posted by Bob Farmer:
If the guy can't read a book, he's not going to be able to read these posts.
As long as the guy doesn't go around forums going "Devo rulez!!1"
Come on guys, give him a break.
I myself want to know how to read "encyclopedia of cigarette magic" :sleep:
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Re: Trouble reading books
Okay, seriously, what you are describing may be dyslexia or attention deficit disorder.Originally posted by maxrod88:
Does anyone else have trouble reading magic books....It has clean White pages and photos they look like you took a picture and had it developed.They dont look printed on paper...
The ability to take a TEXT and apply your attention and focus to bring forth the offerings and intentions of the author is a basic reading skill. Just scanning the words is not enough.
The good stuff is still in those old books that are less than pretty. The gems in Downs' The Art of Magic alone could take you several years to explore.
You are not alone with reading problems. Some of us used to see words and letters floating off the page, and have our vision collapse down to a small circle when we got tired and tried to read. These things can be treated. Get some help so you can enjoy our written history.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
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Re: Trouble reading books
Mikie, Devo does rule. Their version of "Satisfaction" is one of the greatest covers of all time.
Best,
Neil Tobin
We now return you to your previously scheduled topic.
Best,
Neil Tobin
We now return you to your previously scheduled topic.
Neil Tobin, Necromancer
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Re: Trouble reading books
Some of the books that I pick up sometimes are The card magic of Ed Marlo and the David roth Book,there very well written.I guess for me it has to be some who im really into.Can any recommend any books on Ed Marlo,John Bannon,David Solomon,Allan Ackerman,John Cornelius,Larry Jennings,Jack Carpenter,Ken Krenzel,Martin Nash,Paul Gertner,and Juan Tamariz.Hows Phil Goldstien's FOCUS ?
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Re: Trouble reading books
Nah, much more interesting to discuss remakes.Originally posted by Necromancer:
...Their version of "Satisfaction" is one of the greatest covers of all time...
What did you think of the Flying Lizard's version of the Beatles song 'Money' ?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time
Re: Trouble reading books
I do love books and I guess its the era we come from. When I was a kid and would get an issue of Genii in the mail, I remember the great smell of the clay coated paper and the ink. Most of the magic books still smell that way, and Genii, it still smells great. It puts me in the magic reading mood.
Long live paper and ink. Pine trees are a renewable resource and grown in the south like corn grows in Kansas and an additional by product of all the growing is oxygenation.
Of course, who would want to live down wind of a paper mill???? Not me buddy!!!
-=tabman
Long live paper and ink. Pine trees are a renewable resource and grown in the south like corn grows in Kansas and an additional by product of all the growing is oxygenation.
Of course, who would want to live down wind of a paper mill???? Not me buddy!!!
-=tabman
Re: Trouble reading books
Max, I like Focus but it has small pages and not a lot of pictures. I half believe you are putting us on and half believe that you are worthy of concern. I don't know what you really are looking for other than glossy pages and pictures.
Steve V
Steve V
Steve V
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Re: Trouble reading books
Love it, Jonathan. It's right up there with Joe Cocker's gospel-injected version of The Box Tops' "The Letter," and Dick Dale's surf guitar-soaked "Hava Nagila."Originally posted by Jonathan Townsend:
Nah, much more interesting to discuss remakes.Originally posted by Necromancer:
[b] ...Their version of "Satisfaction" is one of the greatest covers of all time...
What did you think of the Flying Lizard's version of the Beatles song 'Money' ? [/b]
Best,
Neil Tobin
Neil Tobin, Necromancer