John Edward's "Crossing Over"

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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 10th, 2007, 9:05 pm

Ay carumba! So many things on which to comment!!

First, I LOVE DeeBrennan!

Next, The best thing said on this thread, was by Richard Kaufman: "I can't believe you guys even find it worthwhile to talk about an [censored] like Edward". Hear hear!! Seriously, what an [censored].

Next I HAVE to say that Mr. Browning seems to be trying really, REALLY HARD to legitimize what he does. There has arisen the taint of thou protesting too much. Talk about defiantly grasping at straws for approval and validation.

Now to a few of Mr. Browning's quotes:

"I hear you all jumping and screaming for proof, but even when it is presented..."
WHAT PROOF (of genuine psychic phenomena) HAS BEEN PRESENTED??!! The people on this Forum are pretty smart.
--I love the way he dismisses Mr. Alexander's "movie" example. (Paraphrasing) "Golly, psychics can't be 100% accurate". No? Either you're psychic, or you are NOT: No hedging, no blurriness, either you can fortell the future, or you can't.

He says, "You hate the fact that we can cultivate a support network for our shows in a way that is easier and far more substantial than the typical magician". The ease with which you dupe suckers is supposed to somehow lend credibility/legitimacy to your cold reading? How is that?

"John Edward gets (up to) $500 per seat". How exactly does that explain away his charletanism? What exactly does that prove? It certainly doesn't enhance his legitimacy, but rather exposes his wanton greed.
--And the assertion that he'd need a staff of thousands to get the info he gets...come on.

"...negation of faith or belief at any level..." Dude, one may fervently believe, with every fiber of one's being that 2+2=5, but it ain't necessarily so.

"But then, how many of you understand the full scope of what dignity, morality, decorum, and honor are all about in the real world with real people, the majority of whom believe in more than human arrogance and intellect?" --YOU DO?! REALLY?!
Holy crap. That is truly noteworthy, and I for one, cower in the face of your unfathomably impressive rhetoric.

Flash: the fact is, the base-line for I.Q.s is 100, and most people "believe" in the [censored] you espouse because they are in fact ignorant.

"It is not our right to tell everyone in the room they're idiots if they believe in psychics, god, or astrology...the more mature and responsible--honorable--position in which the patron is respected..."
What a crock. Letting people continue to be duped is somehow responsible and (or) honorable?
You are correct though, in that it is not our right, but our DUTY to try to save people from such rip-off artists.

Mr. Browning's earnestness during his "readings" is irrelevant.
As Danny Hustle said, "Most cons rely on the greed of the mark. In this case the con relies on taking advantage of another person's suffering".

Oh, how I wish Harry Houdini was here to bust in on, and expose this smarmy [censored] for what it is.

Needless to say, all of the above is posted with only love in my heart. Long live the psychic hucksters with the hearts of gold!! :rolleyes: No--really!--Nothing but respect intended! :p

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 10th, 2007, 9:16 pm

You really have to feel sorry for that guy Stern, who probably thought he genuinely was the little girl's father. The whole thing is too weird. Psychics, of course, knew all this before the child was born. :)
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John LeBlanc
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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby John LeBlanc » April 10th, 2007, 9:34 pm

I have to think anyone who has held a baby from birth feels for the guy. What a train wreck from start to finish.

John

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 10th, 2007, 10:28 pm

I was forced to delete a post that crossed the religious line around here.

The reason being that many of the people here who are arguing against psychics would also happily call those brought up in that post frauds, thus making them neither hypocritical nor discriminatory.

But we just dont allow that kind of talk here.

Psychics, however, are fair game.

Dustin

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 6:22 am

In all fairness, if Craig is using nothing more than an oracular system which people pay him for access to and interpretation of, well, is that really any different from paying (through donation) a Priest or Minister to interpret the Bible? Or a Rabbi the Torah? It all requires faith in a system for which there is no observable proof, yet billions of people happily hand over cash for the inside track. To each his own.

Craig says he doesn't use techniques of deception during his readings, and there's no reason to think he's not telling the truth. On the other side of the billet, Craig says he deplores people who DO use deception, yet also says he admires those who do, like Herb Dewey. It's hard to know what to make of that because it seems so inconsistent.

The way to know whether Howark K Stern REALLY cares about the baby will be to see if he offers to represent her legally for free.

P&L
D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 6:47 am

How does one distinguish the psychic from the spiritualist from the divinely inspired?

When does "how belief affects behavior" become "where faith demands respect" ?

Just so you know, I use the "as if" model and wish all the best in their internal worlds and ONLY care whether they respect the ecology of my (or others) internal world. Peace.

* for some insight on operational oracles have a look at Trance-formations from a reader's perspective. IE to help clients who don't know how to say what they need to and don't know if it's safe to say what they want to... an oracle can sometimes have therapeutic applications.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 8:42 am

"On the other side of the billet, Craig says he deplores people who DO use deception, yet also says he admires those who do, like Herb Dewey. It's hard to know what to make of that because it seems so inconsistent."

OK, I've purposely stayed out of this discussion, because I know there will never be "winners" in this sort of argument. I've tried too many times and find it too stressful for my health.

Nevertheless, I do have to make a comment regarding the comments about the late Herb Dewey. Yes, he has published some great books on ways to do readings using various "aids." However, I have, on more than one occasion, seen him give amazing readings using no such aid, no cards, no palms, no sleights, no pre-show, no generic "cold reading" lines. I have seen him do readings on complete strangers that he hadn't even seen up to the point of the reading, and with no fishing garner hit after hit.

While Mr Dewey surely used his published "aids" to enhance the reading, that doesn't mean he wasn't the real deal.

I know many of you don't believe in hypnotism, so this argument may sound specious, but to those who do...as you may know, many hypnotists use various "stunts" during pre-induction or shortly afterwards that really have nothing to do with actual hypnosis. The purpose of these stunts is to predispose the subject into easier to hypnotize. In my mind, this is little different than using some of the published methods readers often use; it helps the reader and the client "get on the same wavelength", so to speak.

Again, I don't really want to get into this kind of discussion again, so I'll bow out now and you guys go ahead and blow me out of the water. I just wanted to say a word about someone I really respected for his abilities and talent, Herb Dewey.

Regards,
Billy

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 8:54 am

So much to correct and not knowing where to start...

In all fairness, if Craig is using nothing more than an oracular system which people pay him for access to and interpretation of, well, is that really any different from paying (through donation) a Priest or Minister to interpret the Bible? Or a Rabbi the Torah? It all requires faith in a system for which there is no observable proof, yet billions of people happily hand over cash for the inside track; to each his own.

Craig says he doesn't use techniques of deception during his readings, and there's no reason to think he's not telling the truth. On the other side of the billet, Craig says he deplores people who DO use deception, yet also says he admires those who do, like Herb Dewey. It's hard to know what to make of that because it seems so inconsistent.

DeeBrennan
I feel that an intelligent person is capable of looking at someone they may not fully agree with and still find reason for admiration or vice versa. What you leave out in your referencing of me and what was said, is that WHEN I PERFORM AS AN ENTERTAINER I will use billet work and all the psychobabble found in the magic world. Obviously being able to keep the two separate is something some cannot seem to do or understand (such as yourself). I do ask that you not cherry pick though... let's be a bit more complete as to what was said vs. "twisting" my words by deliberate acts of creating assumption.

Flash: the fact is, the base-line for I.Q.s is 100, and most people "believe" in the [censored] you espouse because they are in fact ignorant.
I just love this one... well my I.Q. is somewhere around 126 last I checked. Then again, I don't think you'd fair too well espousing such a bigoted and arrogant idea out loud if you were in say, Branson or Nashville. You might try seeing what the world is like vs. the MENSA meetings and Magic Clubs that support your point of view.

I love the way he dismisses Mr. Alexander's "movie" example. (Paraphrasing) "Golly, psychics can't be 100% accurate". No? Either you're psychic, or you are NOT: No hedging, no blurriness, either you can fortell the future, or you can't.
Where did I say that I am a prognosticator of fortunes? Where have I said that I am "Psychic" and use special powers or abilities that are not of this earth or natural?

You are again trying to twist and misrepresent what I say and what I do, trying to force me into your preconceived mold of what a Reader is supposed to be... I don't fit that mold and it's starting to piss you off it would seem.

Other than Penn and Teller, who are Craig and Jim talking about? Would either of you deny P&T the same First Amendment rights that you and the religious have in this country because you disagree with them?
We could start with everyone's favorite hypocrite here on the east coast... Jamie Swiss will toss you out on you ear if you do any kind of Readings in his presence and yet, it's the first thing he moves into when looking at sexual conquests for the evening. This has been witnessed numerous times by young and old alike and in my point of view, contradicts everything he espouses, allowing him to live down to the idea of being slimy and manipulative and exploitive -- an image far too common within the whole of the magic fraternity I may add by grossly hypocritical when coming from a big mouth like Jamie who also believes it's perfectly fine to open an act telling people if they believe in anything mystical or spiritual they are full of crap and need to find a shrink... then again, like most cynics Jamie forgets that the entire field of Psychology & Psychiatry evolved out of studies dealing with the icons and images that came through the gypsy's trade -- the art of interpreting images, dreams, etc.

Similar utterances have been made by Criss Angel on national television as well as a handful of others. The prevalence of which is starting to cost our industry a lot of public favor regardless of what you might be seeing at the moment. There's already a few evangelists out there telling parents that magic tricks are the catalyst by which children are sucked into the coldness of Atheism... an honest look around at conversations in magic society in which faith, the power of prayer and related testimonials come into play will reveal the fact that a genuine and cruel bias is present and it's become exceptionally hurtful.

It is important to note that the amount of time that P&T have on their cable show is miniscule when compared to the tsunami of religious programming television. There are entire cable systems created for religious purposes.
David your forgot how many networks are out there dealing with America's other religion -- SPORTS and of course all those buying & selling channels. I'm an A&E, Bio, History and Science Channel man myself...

The jist of this thread is people are pissed at people that charge money to council people using cold reading techniques.

Craig Browning seems to think this is an ok thing to do.
Sorry, but you are misrepresenting me and what I've said (seems to be a habit of you all)... I believe that it is legit and fine to do Readings when you are doing exactly what you say... if I'm selling Palm Readings then that's exactly what I'm doing -- Palmistry. I do not and never have supported all this "Channeling" stuff that's out there. I do not and never have supported the idea that what Readers or "Psychics" in general say or do is in fact Super Natural (a serious contradiction in terms, not to mention that fact that it goes against most of the deeper occult truths). I have Never claimed to have anything other than a heightened sense of intuition and I have Always said that I have studied techniques that allow me to expand on what is natural.

When I teach as well as when I perform I ALWAYS remover the "boogieman factor" i.e. the more fantasiful idea people have when it comes to the Psychic idea. I strive to place them on level ground and looking at the concept of being psychic through lenses that are a bit more mundane. Helping them to see logically what it is via natural science and natural phenomena.

Now in that so many of you want to use me at a beating bag presently all of that will be ignored just as it has been throughout much of this discussion... ironically, by two key players here that I consider to be friends and who know me better. They know my philosophy and where I'm coming from and I'm rather disappointed that they are on the attack vs. representing me in the manner that they know I stand for.

I have likewise stated numerous times in this thread and elsewhere, that I'm all for exposing and prosecuting the predators but I also believe that we need to curb some of the existing hype as to what that means... I can assure you that the little old lady down the street doing Palm Readings isn't working a hustle or out to hit the who's who list of miracle workers. What she does is typically innocent as well as honest... at least from her point of view. This is the standard. Especially when you take into consideration how professional Readers have stood up in recent times addressing the problem of the predator and cult-styled operators. We're not talking about hot headed magicians and cynics, I mean honest to god New Age shut-eye Readers that have gone to the press as well as the police, seeking to educate the public about such operators and in the cases in Reno, NV that I was involved with, get the crew locked up on appropriate charges.

Who here is doing that?

What is wrong with what I say or represent?

Other than your assumptions about Readers, where am I "breaking the rules"? And if I am, why aren't you looking at the others in this business that do the very same thing... those that are "smart enough" to watch this thread and not get involved (there are about a dozen such players by the way... but they hate getting into this kind of "discussion" because it rarely goes anywhere positive.)

I volunteered a long time ago to be the front-man as it were, for persons of belief/faith. They have rights too and though I don't deny anyone their right to Freedom of Speech/Expression I will likewise use that right to speak out against their abusive antics and outright slander when it comes to my rights as a performer as well as a person that has very strong spiritual beliefs. The rage many of you feel towards me is what is being internalized by many others who feel oppressed and threatened just as you do because someone was bold enough to speak up a bit.

As I've said, there is more coming, including the documentation you keep asking for and actual face to face interviews with those involved. You will get exactly what you are wishing for... but let's also remember that old adage about such requests... ;)

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 9:16 am

I don't even have a problem with people charging for readings per se. I have a problem with people coming here and expecting us to believe in "real" psychics, and then arguing with us once we point out that such a thing does not exist.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 9:34 am

Craigers,

I'm surprised you mind when people twist your words. I thought you liked having your words twisted.

For instance, in this interview you claim that you predicted 9/11 a month before it happened, when what you really predicted was a volcano eruption. You considered those two events close enough to be a hit.

I think a lot of people are confused by how your powers work. There doesn't seem to be much consistency. In fact, it almost seems like you're just guessing. What I've asked you before, and I still don't understand, is how you could mistake the World Trade Center -- buildings that are recognizable in silohuette -- for a volcano. Okay, maybe you don't get clear images. But then in that same interview you claim to be having a premontion about a car bomb that will hit a building in northern California that is 8 stories tall and has 1950's architecture. There seems to be a LOT of detail in that particular vision. By the way, how did that one turn out?

That interview almost makes it seem like you're taking credit for predicting 9/11 when you weren't even close. But you wouldn't do something like that, would you? I mean, only a real [censored] would do that, right?

By the way, if you're still available for $35 per person for your "Murder and the Psychic Detective" parties, please let me know. My dear grandma is turning 101 this year and I think she'd get a kick out of it. Please bring some balloon-doggies for the kids.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 11:24 am

An interviewer said of Craig "However, he says his psychic readings and premonitions are the real deal."

Cool.

But...

No federal building in Cali or Northern Nevada got hit, and San Fancisco did not get hit.

Real Deal also says of his dubious 9/11 "premonition","We jumped to conclusions, thinking it would be a volcano or something like that." OOOPSIE! Good thing no one made their Washington State travel plans based on your "intuition"! (Or if anyone DID alter their plans, I wonder if any of them got killed or injured because they were somewhere else than where they had originally planned to be because the "psychic" said there would be a volcano explosion.)

Ever think about that Real Deal? The unintended, and indirect effect your blatherings might have on the gullible?

Is that something a responsible reader does, Real Deal? "Jumping to conclusions"? How many of your clients lives have you screwed up because you "jumped to a conclusion"?

And finally, didn't you say earlier you were done with this thread? As a psychic, though, I'm sure you had a premonition you'd be back, right, Real Deal?

P&L
D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 11:26 am

Oh, and...I was mistaken. I thought you were admiring Dewey for his magic trick-assisted "reading" methods, and not separating that from mentalism shows.

My apologies.

P&L
D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 11:28 am

Real Deal said>>>I volunteered a long time ago to be the front-man as it were, for persons of belief/faith.>>>

Just to clarify, do you consider your reading services to be religious in nature? "Belief" and "faith" are words primarily associated with religion, so I'm asking for a clarification, please.

P&L
D

Ian Kendall
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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Ian Kendall » April 11th, 2007, 12:04 pm

Craig,

Is this forthcoming documentation your 195 dollar book, perchance?

Take care, Ian

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 4:29 pm

Who is "Real Deal?"

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 5:07 pm

Mr. Browning, I never called your I.Q. into question (126 is a tremendous score indeed, though doesn't quite qualify for MENSA which must irk) rather, the I.Q.s of the gullible people that believe what pretend-psychics spout: the poor folks desperate for some palliative that phonies are all-too happy to deliver (for a price, of course).

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 5:23 pm

Craig wrote:
Similar utterances have been made by Criss Angel on national television as well as a handful of others. The prevalence of which is starting to cost our industry a lot of public favor regardless of what you might be seeing at the moment. There's already a few evangelists out there telling parents that magic tricks are the catalyst by which children are sucked into the coldness of Atheism... an honest look around at conversations in magic society in which faith, the power of prayer and related testimonials come into play will reveal the fact that a genuine and cruel bias is present and it's become exceptionally hurtful.
________________________________________________

First of all, evangelists have been screaming about all sorts of magic things for decades, so it isnt a recent phenomenon. A few years ago a famous gospel magician was tossed out of the offices of a large evangelical magazine when the president of the magazine saw him being interviewed. Many who believe as they do fail to see or understand the difference between theatrical magic and so-called black magic. Their latest target has been Harry Potter, which is, to the best of my knowledge, fiction and not a documentary.

Second, it could very well be that the conversations at magic societies that you characterize as hurtful are people telling the evangelical amateurs that theyre not interested in listening to their testimony stories or being proselytized, much as I told Dean Dill to respect Jerry Andruss lack of belief when he proselytized Jerry on this forum. I found that incredibly disrespectful, although I imagine Dean did not.

Many believers see it as their duty to proselytize. Conversely, there are many of us who dont want to be the objects of their sales job, regardless of our beliefs or non-beliefs, and find it rude and disrespectful. Is it your position that I permit myself to be subjected to something I find distasteful so as not to hurt the other persons feelings? If so, that's absurd.

What I find so fascinating is the lack of many of those people to follow the Golden Rule of do unto others I do exactly that and give respect until I dont get it in return. If the other person finds my response to their lack of respect "hurful," they have no one but themselves to blame.

You then quoted me:
quote:
________________________________________
It is important to note that the amount of time that P&T have on their cable show is miniscule when compared to the tsunami of religious programming television. There are entire cable systems created for religious purposes.
________________________________________

And you responded with:

David your forgot how many networks are out there dealing with America's other religion -- SPORTS and of course all those buying & selling channels. I'm an A&E, Bio, History and Science Channel man myself...
_________________________________________

Your response did not address my observation that the amount of so-called atheistic performances/statements on television is miniscule when compared to the tens of thousands of hours broadcast by at least seven religious television networks. There are 1600 television and radio stations in the United States that are religious in their programming, plus hundreds and hundreds of religious bookstores, not to mention the presence of religious websites on the Internet. In comparison, the voices of Penn & Teller, Randi, Banacheck, Derren Brown, and Criss Angel are tiny.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 6:18 pm

On the topic of IQ, 126 is one point higher than Paris Hilton.

I kid you not.

P&L
D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 6:20 pm

Who is "Real Deal?">>>

Craig is. He told a reporter his psychic abilities are the real deal. I thought it a fitting nickname.

P&L
D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 6:25 pm

BTw, here's Craig's public admission of being a "psychic"

"Me and about five other psychics I'm associated with all had the same premonition of the ground moving"

Here's the relevant definition...

2 : lying outside the sphere of physical science or knowledge : immaterial, moral, or spiritual in origin or force
3 : sensitive to nonphysical or supernatural forces and influences : marked by extraordinary or mysterious sensitivity, perception, or understanding

Draw your own conclusions as to whether Craig claims no supernatural abilites, as he now tells us.

P&L
D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 8:04 pm

By the way, I am totally eager to hear Mr. Browning explain "the full scope of what dignity, morality, decorum, and honor are all about in the real world with real people". That should be COOL! Regale and enlighten us, man! We can handle it. :D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 8:29 pm

As was stated by another.. there is no "winning" in this sort of thing... that was never my point. But then I've been accused of coming here and claiming many things I've not claimed or even intimated.

The old article in the RnR has its ties and explanations... I needn't deal with it here. I know the facts and I know what's happened and hasn't. I don't need to deal with here. The biggest of all rubs being that no matter what is presented, even when it is 100% in the framework of what you ask, you will find fault, this is the nature of a cynic vs. a Skeptic... it is likewise the nature of those that simply don't want to believe in anything and feel it perfectly fine to deprive the rest of the world of such, allowing everyone to be as bitter and empty as they are.

It's quite sad, but it is what each of you have chosen.

Maybe some day a few of you will look at what's been said and decide to remove those blinders you've affixed to both your eyes and mind... all I know is that this is a waste and something I needn't continue.

Oh! No, the book that's coming out presently is a Marketing Manual -- THE COMPILED PSYCHIC TECHNOLOGIES... It has been well received throughout the mentalists industry gaining strong kudos from the like of Webster, Becker and others of note. Due to some technical glitches with the printers I've extended the pre-sale price of $195.00 into the first of June after which it will go to the regular price of $245.00

The other book I'm talking about has just "started"... that is to say, I'm gathering data... one of the reasons I've played with this thread for so long :D (yes, I'm a being sneaky and deceptive, what can I say?) I doubt that this book will see the light of day in under two years time, possibly a bit longer than that given my current "catch up" list of things to do. This year alone I have "Look at the Naked Ape" (vol. 1 of The Reader's Bible) coming out along with another Reader's guide entitled "Auntie Clare Does a Reading"... it is the first magic based resource about doing Readings for Gay & Lesbian clients with contributions by several noted Mentalists that do Readings as a day job... I'm certain you've heard of and used the material composed by several of them... I also have a couple of effects coming out this year, all going well. :cool:

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 8:40 pm

Now there is the 1st evidence of genuine psychic powers I have ever seen demonstrated: You amazingly, almost against all odds, divined that I am "bitter and empty" because I don't buy your crap. Well done.

Oh, how will I live down the shame of it? :p

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 9:07 pm

Craig evaded>>>The old article in the RnR has its ties and explanations... I needn't deal with it here. I know the facts and I know what's happened and hasn't. I don't need to deal with here.>>>

Why not? You were WRONG in your predictions, called yourself a "Psychic", and tried to pass off some BS about a "premonition" of a volcano erupting as a 'hit' by past-posting it as a premonition of 9/11.

According to YOUR OWN WORDS, you turned out to be 0-3. And you exploited a national tragedy in order to get a little PR. That sucks ass.

D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 9:13 pm

BTW, will the Marketing book tell me how to be a Reader who makes just $25-30k per year?

Or will it tell me how to be a magician/mentalist no one ever buys a ticket to see?

Or both?

If I'm going to blow two bills on a book, I want to know what I'll be learning, so I'm hoping it will teach me both.

D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 9:46 pm

NO! I am serious!! --Ever since it happened, it has got me COMPLETELY creeped-out!!
HOW in the HELL did he know I was bitter and empty?! I have NO damned idea, and I am freakin'!!

The only thing I can possibly guess is that, to gather such detailed, case-specific information, he HAS GOT to employ a staff in the THOUSANDS!
It is the only reasonable explanation.

If not, can you deny that's proof of genuine, healing psychic-ability? I thought not.


P.S. Noone that knows me would be impressed by the above revelation, but I digress.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 9:55 pm

Just checked my O.E.D., and found this of interest:

"sceptic: inquiring, reflective...to look out, consider..."

That IS an horrible epithet--call someone a sceptic and whew! Katie bar the door!

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2007, 10:14 pm

I hate/love this thread.

One thing I really can't stand is cold-reading books and those that write, sell or market them.

(There are some cold readers I have liked, as people...)

Mr. Randi:

The most boring thing in the world I can imagine is being in a lab, undergoing tests to prove something to somebody.

My own explorations are private and not for entertainment or anyone's view but my own and a few friends. There is no money involved.

So if I talk to the dead, it's my business.

I got a really cool billet move I could show you though.

( I probably re-invented someone else's technique... it's a finite geometry, a folded square of paper and all. But awareness itself? Is that a finite geometry? Gadzooks!!! Why am I asking that in a magician's forum?!)


:whack: :whack: :whack: :sleep:

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 1:50 am

Oh...so you're mocking him. I get it. :rolleyes:

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 4:24 am

That Browning bloke wrote something about doing a book about giving 'special' readings to gay and lesbian people.

Wow.

I bet the gays are really looking forward to that one. Because, obviously, they are SO DIFFERENT to straight people. Thank you for being brave enough in this age of socio-sexual enlightenment to take a stance and segregate the homos. Fight the good fight.

I really look forward to your Doing Reading For The Colorerds book that I believe is your follow up. Subtitled 'Whatchoo talkin' about Willis'

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 6:46 am

I really look forward to your Doing Reading For The Coloreds book that I believe is your follow up. Subtitled 'Whatchoo talkin' about Willis' >>>

Hmmmmm, "The Coloreds Book of Cold Reading" series.

I premonish an instant classic!

Red for American Indians and Republicans.
Yellow for Asians.
Blue for Democrats and Arctic Explorers.
Pink for....YOU know.

They'll be going for thousands on Ebay within a year.

P&L
D

Mark Collier
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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Mark Collier » April 12th, 2007, 8:06 am

Mr. Browning says,
it is likewise the nature of those that simply don't want to believe in anything and feel it perfectly fine to deprive the rest of the world of such, allowing everyone to be as bitter and empty as they are
You (sometimes rightfully) complain about being miscategorized.

People here have repeatedly reminded you that you are free to believe whatever you want.

Just because someone feels it's wrong to charge for 'psychic services' doesn't mean they 'don't believe in anything.

I think you are wrong when you talk about 'the nature' of skeptics. I think most skeptics (like most people in general) believe in ethical behavior and have a sense of morality even if it isn't spiritually based.

If you don't want to be miscatergorized, perhaps you should be careful how you categorize others.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 8:26 am

Mark... do keep in mind that I know the difference between a Skeptic and a Cynic... I'm very much a Skeptic but I also know that things aren't black in white in the real world but rather, shades of grey. The cynic refuses to see the grey where the skeptic has few problems with it.

Houdini & Kellar before him, strove to expose the criminals, not to say all and everything was fraudulent or to make fun of people's beliefs. I stand by that same exact model as have many in Mentalism over the years. But I also stand on the premise that folks have the right to feel safe in their beliefs, especially in this country, and not be slandered and mocked in a most cruel manner by those thinking themselves superior simply because they are non-believers and deluded by the idea the "genius" equates to atheism or some such.

What has been repeated constantly in this thread are words of slander based not on observation but personal conjecture as to what people assume I do. As has been seen, I've had to correct them several times about mis-stating what I've said to which they bring up some rather ancient dirt thinking it will prove an point, when I addressed much of what that RnR article says, long ago...

I wish that some of the more noted personalities of Mentalism would come and jump in on this thread... those that so many of the members here claim to admire, all of whom do Readings as part of their business model and they do it "for real". It is something the closed minded will never allow themselves to understand in that they want it all, one way and one way only... it's a very sad thing actually.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 9:11 am

Real Deal said>>>What has been repeated constantly in this thread are words of slander based not on observation but personal conjecture as to what people assume I do.>>>

YOU SAID YOU WERE A PSYCHIC! You said it, no one else.

It's also been proven that you were wrong in 2 of 3 published premonitions. The third, you past-posted to re-interpret as a 9/11 hit, much the way John edward did with his "unseasy feeling".

You've refused to answer at least one polite request for clarification of your position, refused to explain your claim of being a "Psychic" who publishes "premonitions", and are now playing the "misunderstood victim" card?!?!

The only closed, evasive, mind around here belongs you you, Craig. EVERYONE here would LOVE to be given proof of the validity of your "science," (your word, not mine,) yet you consistently refuse to GIVE us proof, save for a mythical upcoming book full of anectdotes.

So how about it, Craig? Shut us all up by publishing three premonitions, like you had no problem doing for the other publication. Make Randi soil his depends and hand you ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

Every cynic/skeptic here will give it a fair shake. Or do you hate us all so much that you believe we'll deliberately deny the proof you give us?

It's up to you, Craig. Put up or shut up.

P&L
D
(And lookee, the only person I slandered was Randi. See? I'm an equal-opportunity slanderer.)

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 9:14 am

Craig said>>>I wish that some of the more noted personalities of Mentalism would come and jump in on this thread... those that so many of the members here claim to admire, all of whom do Readings as part of their business model and they do it "for real".>>>

I call shenanigans, Craig. You're putting words in people's mouths. While I may admire someone for his/her performances, I wold never admire their readings.

But I think you have a FABULOUS idea, here. Let's get everyone who does it "for real" and have them do a little prognisticatin'!

If it's real, it's real. Doing it here won't make it any LESS real, now will it?

D

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 12:14 pm

CB-

I'm sorry I brought up that old newspaper interview with you. I would have brought up some other press of yours but I couldn't find any. Could you direct me to some more of your press that I can find online or at the library? I would love to see one instance, just one, where you predicted something with even a moderate amount of accuracy.

A lot of people say "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." That's fine for science. For me though, I'm just looking for some ordinary evidence. Hell, I'll take some mediocre evidence. Do you have any documented evidence at all that you can do anything of any consequence what-so-ever?

You've spent a good amount of time defending your abilities here, but wouldn't it be easier just to demonstrate them in some way? Just tell us all something that will be happening soon that you could have no way of knowing and I think people will have to give you a shade more respect. I bet you can do it! Come on, let's prove all these doubters wrong!

You've made no secret that you're hurting for cash in other posts on this board, why not make some public predictions like you did in that newpaper article(just try to be a smidge more accurate). Then all your money problems would go away I bet. If I were you I would just put a few bucks on the ponies to make some quick cash, but that's probably against the psychic code of ethics.

What do you say?

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 1:20 pm

>>>>You've made no secret that you're hurting for cash in other posts on this board,>>>>

Really? Then why would I want to buy a $250 marketing book from somoeone who...ahh...never mind.

Hey, here are my Psychic Predictions...

Within two weeks, a prominent PGA golfer will sufffer serious injury to at least one of his legs.

A previously unknown, or thought-to-be-extinct large mammal will be found alive in South America.

A computer hacker's prank will cause the DOW to fluctuate wildly before it is uncovered.

THERE. I'm on record. C'mon, Craig, see if you can beat the cynic. (Randi, get your checkbook out, baby!)

P&L
D

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Richard Kaufman
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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Richard Kaufman » April 12th, 2007, 5:45 pm

Sorry Dustin, I'm just enjoying this too much.
Please continue!
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

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Dustin Stinett
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Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Dustin Stinett » April 12th, 2007, 5:55 pm

I predicted you were going to do that.

Guest

Re: John Edward's "Crossing Over"

Postby Guest » April 12th, 2007, 7:24 pm

I want to make predictions!!!

1) Tomorrow you will all think you misplaced your keys and find them in your left hand.

B) Tomorrow you will all check this thread and the same discussion will be going on.

Also) The good news is, in the future we will make a device to recover the time wasted on this thread. :)

I don't think anyone here really believes in psychics (even the REAL DEAL himself). If you were a psychic, why would you ever revert to the methods of magicians and mentalists?? I call BS.


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