Conjuring Arts Book Club

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 23822
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 8th, 2016, 10:31 pm

Not only is it legal for teachers to read aloud books to their students, they are also allowed to photocopy sections of books and hand them out to students. This is a settled legal matter.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
Tom Stone
Posts: 1240
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Tom Stone » October 9th, 2016, 2:24 am

Bill Mullins wrote:
Tom Stone wrote:Libraries are not allowed to make copies of the works they hold.


Tom -- You should read § 108 of the Copyright Act before you say things like this.

Ok, so 50-75% of all books in the US libraries are photocopies? I'm actually not surprised.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 9th, 2016, 6:35 am

Again, all this is irrelevant. Does Chris have the rights to the material or doesn't he? As for the statement that his seems to be the only narrative here all I can say is there is nothing to stop the other narrative from being expressed. Where is the other side of the story? Where is Bill Kalush and HIS explanation? Where? Where? Where?

Since people seem to love chattering in legalese I happen to know that in court if one party doesn't show up there is a default judgement against him. I have not yet seen the other side of the story. That is because there isn't one. It seems very cut and dried to me.

Chris owns the copyright. That is plain for all to see. If he doesn't then some worthy or other would have said so by now. The copyrighted material is on the CARC site without permission. Forget the legal crap. At the very least it is bad manners to knowingly use the material without permission. At the very worst it is downright crooked and unethical. Or perhaps it is just in between. So which is it, Mr Kalush? I know you are reading this. I happen to be psychic after all. And yet you say nothing. Methinks silence is not golden. In fact it speaks volumes.

Either get permission or take the stuff down. Bluffing it out and waiting for the issue to go away won't work since the internet is a double edged sword. This conversation will be on the magic cafe and facebook before you know it. Nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. I should do it today if I were you.

Jackpot
Posts: 58
Joined: June 8th, 2016, 12:38 am
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Jackpot » October 9th, 2016, 1:47 pm

performer wrote:Again, all this is irrelevant.


All irrelevant? The original post had little to do with almost all the replies. Irrelevance is in the eye of the beholder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Not the one who created the Potter Index.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 9th, 2016, 11:01 pm

Jackpot wrote:
performer wrote:Again, all this is irrelevant.


All irrelevant? The original post had little to do with almost all the replies. Irrelevance is in the eye of the beholder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Don't be silly, old chap. Of course it is relevant! Why? Because I said it is! I would have thought it was patently obvious that anything I say is gospel. I am a psychic reverend after all......................

Jackpot
Posts: 58
Joined: June 8th, 2016, 12:38 am
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Jackpot » October 9th, 2016, 11:13 pm

performer wrote:
Jackpot wrote:
performer wrote:Again, all this is irrelevant.


All irrelevant? The original post had little to do with almost all the replies. Irrelevance is in the eye of the beholder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Don't be silly, old chap. Of course it is relevant! Why? Because I said it is! I would have thought it was patently obvious that anything I say is gospel. I am a psychic reverend after all......................

I consider all subsequent posts to be relevant no matter who posted them. (Although some were not necessarily on the topic of the original post.). Most of us learned something from these exchanges.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Not the one who created the Potter Index.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 10th, 2016, 12:17 am

I think the main thing that has been learned until more information comes in to the contrary is that there is something iffy going on. It does make one wonder you know.......................

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 10th, 2016, 1:10 pm

How exciting! It seems that Bill Kalush is reading this thread after all! I just received an email from Martin MacMillan that greatly amused me. It seems that poor William has complained to Martin that I said he had downloaded the 13 Steps without permission. Martin asked me to confirm that an arrangement had been made. I told Martin that there was no need to make a confirmation because I plainly stated on this thread ALREADY that Martin HAD made an arrangement! So Bill has been telling porkies to Martin and misleading him that I hadn't mentioned the arrangement.

However, I realise that poor Bill is an American and may not know the meaning of "porkies". Cockney rhyming slang old chap. Porkies equals pork pies. I shall let you all figure out the rest of the rhyming meaning.

I rather think Mr Kalush should reply to the complaints on here instead of sending off silly misleading emails to all and sundry.
Or better still send an email to Chris stating that he is giving back the magazines since I have put a psychic jinx on them and making him a little agitated. It isn't as if he is making any money out of the bloody things. Or is he?

If he has an answer to Chris's complaints then it would behoove him to give it to us. I have a very open mind in these matters.
If there is a defense then let us hear it. However, if all we get is silence and agitated e-mails to other persons then we can only draw the obvious conclusion that there is something terribly iffy going on. Since I am an acknowledged expert on iffiness I can tell him better ways to go about it and I will be glad to give him advice on the matter.

The best advice I can give on iffiness is that if you are going to indulge in it at least make some money out of it. If not don't bother with it. It ain't worth it.

Ted M
Posts: 893
Joined: January 24th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Dani DaOrtiz
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Ted M » October 11th, 2016, 10:53 pm

My neighbors are reaching over my fence and eating tomatoes from my plants.

This is wrong, so I am posting to the Genii forum about it.

Thank you for your attention.

If it continues, I shall post more. Stay tuned.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 11th, 2016, 11:05 pm

I should send a cease and desist notice to your neighbours.

Still, I thank you bringing this back to the top again just as it was about to disappear.

User avatar
lybrary
Posts: 776
Joined: March 31st, 2013, 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 12th, 2016, 7:24 am

Ted M wrote:My neighbors are reaching over my fence and eating tomatoes from my plants.

This is wrong, so I am posting to the Genii forum about it.

Thank you for your attention.

If it continues, I shall post more. Stay tuned.


I think it is relevant when CARC hawks their services and products to let potential customers know that they are thieves and crooks and systematically infringing copyrights. I would think this is very relevant and quite appropriate. As a customer I would want to know that.
Lybrary.com https://www.lybrary.com/
preserving magic one book at a time

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 8:31 am

Chris. If you had a magic wand and real magical powers what would make you happy regarding all this? Would you want compensation from Kalush? Or would you simply be happy if he would desist from putting out your material?

I keep getting psychic vibes (and I may be wrong) that Kalush has been frantically sending Richard agitated emails asking him to delete this thread. And yet it is still here. Richard must think this is a matter that needs to be aired otherwise he would have deleted it by now.

I really think Bill should come out here and answer the concerns to the best of his ability. Hiding away only makes things worse and makes him look as if he has something to hide.

He must be cursing this tomato chap for bringing this thread back to the top again just when it was about to fade away!

User avatar
lybrary
Posts: 776
Joined: March 31st, 2013, 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 12th, 2016, 9:13 am

I want him to remove the magazines I own (for the most part formerly owned by Martin Breese such as "The Magic Wand" and "Pabular").
Lybrary.com https://www.lybrary.com/
preserving magic one book at a time

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 23822
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 12th, 2016, 9:27 am

I have no received any emails from anyone. I also wish that Genii was not on CARC.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 10:21 am

In that case I am not in the least bit surprised he has not been sending you any emails! I must say that revelation about Genii is QUITE a surprise!

User avatar
Mahdi Gilbert
Posts: 50
Joined: May 5th, 2016, 10:06 am
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 12th, 2016, 11:43 am

I told myself, I'm going to try to ignore all this nonsense (as I've already addressed it in my previous post), but what all of you are doing actually bothers me and disgusts me and is probably the number one reason I, and many other people who are serious about magic, don't frequent these forums.

I work very hard making these ebooks available. I literally slave over them. Everything we are doing is legal(if it wasn't everyone complaining, lying, and slandering would have legal actions that they could take instead of just posting nonsense). I create a thread on this forum to let people, who actually want to learn about magic and make use of the resources that we are making available through our book club, to improve and develop themselves as magicians.

Then, people with no actual interest in my Book Club come on to hijack the thread and slander Conjuring Arts and William Kalush. I have to say, I'm so disgusted by the behavior of the people on this forum. Really I am.

No one writes about the actual Book Club, the book, Money Magic, or the livestream with David Roth. It's just tragic that I have to associate with people like you to reach the people who are actually interested in magic.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 2:40 pm

Mahdi. You know I like and respect you. My interest in this matter is not personal and I have no issue with you personally. I appreciate that you work hard making the e-books available. I hope that Kalush pays you vast sums of money for doing so. As the old saying goes, "Art for Art's sake, money for Christ's sake!" or if you wish to be more secular about it "money for goodness sake". I have no idea why I get a vibe that this is not the case but that is none of my business.

But you are talking about e-books. I and Chris (and now Richard it seems) are not talking about them. We are talking about magazines that CARC plainly do not have the copyright for. I am NOT interested in talking about legal jabbering. I know and Kalush knows perfectly well that suing people is not worth the aggravation and expense. So you may as well lay that silliness aside. I am talking about what is right and what is wrong. It plainly seems to be that no matter what the legal situation is if someone has a claim to a copyright and then someone else helps themselves to it then that is plainly wrong.

As for the tosh about people needing the book club to "improve and develop themselves as magicians" you know as well as I do that this is a lost cause. Book club or no book club magicians will be as crap as they have always been.

But the solution is remarkably simple. Just remove any copyrighted material from the site. Then everyone will be happy. And we can then all talk about David Roth and the book club.

User avatar
Mahdi Gilbert
Posts: 50
Joined: May 5th, 2016, 10:06 am
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 12th, 2016, 2:54 pm

No.

Don't hijack my thread.

If you want to talk about magazines and copyright law create your own thread.

Otherwise, there's no point to this thread and me posting on this forum. I created this to discuss the Book Club.

Look at the title of the thread. Look at my first post.

You guys have completely hijacked what I'm doing to push your own agenda's and you should know, that I think it's a disgrace.

User avatar
Tom Stone
Posts: 1240
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Tom Stone » October 12th, 2016, 3:52 pm

Mahdi Gilbert wrote:No.

Don't hijack my thread.

No one is questioning the quality of your work.

However, you did say that Conjuring Arts are publishing public domain works. Since this doesn't seem to be completely correct, it is not surprising that it has tangented off.

User avatar
Mahdi Gilbert
Posts: 50
Joined: May 5th, 2016, 10:06 am
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 12th, 2016, 4:09 pm

Why do you people repeat the same nonsense over and over again?

We republish works in the public domain and we also have deals with magicians like Dani DaOrtiz, Lee Asher, etc to sell their ebooks as well. We don't steal. We aren't crooks or thieves.

And I'm going to say it again. What you guys are doing is so low. It's despicable. It's a disgrace, believe me, and everyone who knows about the matter and knows what you guys are doing thinks it's disgraceful too even if they won't speak out publicly.

It's so low. It's unbelievable. The way you people write is extremely deceptive. The way you knowingly withhold information and post disinformation to deceive the readers of this forum is disgusting. Everyone who knows what you are doing thinks it's disgraceful too.

You guys are losing so much respect every single time your fingers hit the keys on your keyboard.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 5:30 pm

You cannot blame us for hijacking this thread. You must blame Richard for allowing us to hijack it. You chose to start the thread here in a forum where the owner of said forum ain't happy about Genii magazine being on the CARC site. So you must reprimand yourself over the matter for posting in unfriendly territory.

I really don't think you should take the responsibility of CARCs misdeeds on your own shoulders. Let Bill Kalush do it for you. I think it is disgraceful for him to allow you to take the flak for this when he is perfectly able to explain for himself.

I am not sure what information is being withheld. Or what the disinformation is. I am only relating what I have been told. If you have other information then tell us what it is . Tell us what the disinformation is. Tell us what has been withheld. I am open minded on this. But if I have only heard one side of the story then naturally I want to know the other side. But if you can't tell me what that other side is then I can't see any reason to change my mind.

I admire your loyalty but it ain't your responsibility. I wish it weren't you playing defense here but you know I am always blunt.
However I can be fair too. I just haven't seen the other side of the case. Either something is copyright or it bloody isn't.
Are you saying that Chris does NOT have the copyright? Can you answer that one with a simple yes or no?

Roger M.
Posts: 1232
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 12th, 2016, 5:35 pm

IMO, there is absolutely no upside to Richard permitting the use the Genii Forum as the battleground between Chris (Lybrary) and Bill Kalush (CARC).

"Off topic" posts made in a thread about Madhi's book club should be immediately deleted, as would totally off-topic posts in any other thread be.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 7:31 pm

It is all the fault of the tomato chap.

Bill Mullins
Posts: 4444
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Bill Mullins » October 12th, 2016, 9:00 pm

Roger M. wrote:IMO, there is absolutely no upside to Richard permitting the use the Genii Forum as the battleground between Chris (Lybrary) and Bill Kalush (CARC).


And there is no upside for anyone at CARC to participate in the battle. Those who accuse them will continue to do so, and those who know better don't need to hear it. And Mark Lewis will continue to stir up things (he reminds me of the schoolyard instigator, "Let's you and him fight!")

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 10:16 pm

Mullins old chap. You and the others who are waffling here are merely putting up a smokescreen. There is only one question and not a single person on the other side of the argument has given me a satisfactory answer. I have even asked Mahdi privately the same question but he keeps changing the subject.

I am quite willing to change my mind on this matter if someone can convince me that Chris does not own the copyright. I shall therefore try again to ask the simple question. Hopefully I will not get the usual waffle about legalities to distract me. Or conversation about tomatoes. Or chatter about how wonderful CARC is.

It is a very simple question and I will reprimand anyone who does not give me a simple answer. I don't want waffle. I merely want a yes or no. Does Chris own the copyright or not? Does anyone have the slightest evidence to dispute this? If anyone claims that he doesn't then tell me and I will consider changing sides. And if it is actually PROVEN to me I WILL change sides.

It is the crux of the issue and no other smokescreens matter. Does he own the copyright? YES or NO.?

Once that simple question is answered then it is a very simple matter to judge who is right and who is wrong.

If the answer is YES then Kalush should give the material back.
If the answer is NO then Kalush should tell Chris to stuff it.

If the answer is "I don't know" or a vague response then we can prolong the thread for another 18 months or so which will give me great delight.

So which is it?

YES or NO? No vague responses please.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 23822
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 12th, 2016, 10:21 pm

To respond to Roger M's remark, I let this discussion continue because it seems there are real questions to be answered about the legality about some of what appears on Ask Alexander when it is accessed remotely by the internet from outside the library. I have repeatedly (over the course of YEARS) asked that Genii be removed. Claims have been made by the other side in this argument that somehow I conveyed the right to allow Genii to be on CARC in perpetuity in email messages, which is absolute nonsense.

Mahdi is a remarkable and talented person, but he has drunk the Kalush Kool-Aid, so his comments are not surprising. He obviously doesn't believe there are two sides to this story, which is a pity.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
lybrary
Posts: 776
Joined: March 31st, 2013, 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 12th, 2016, 10:47 pm

In my case the CARC/Kalush infringement is even less understandable, because Kalush confirmed to Martin Breese that his magazines have been removed after Martin requested it. Remember Martin Breese wrote to him:

Breese: "I definitely would like my magazines removed from your site. ... Please would you confirm when the magazines have been deleted from your site."

Kalush replied: "Your material is no longer available through our site."

So what happened? Kalush is not only breaking the law he is breaking his own word? What a crook! The hardest part for me to wrap my head around is that some folks here seem to defend copyright infringement. Do you guys have no sense of right and wrong? No sense of what is ethical behavior, let alone what is legal?
Lybrary.com https://www.lybrary.com/
preserving magic one book at a time

Roger M.
Posts: 1232
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 12th, 2016, 11:04 pm

Richard, I don't think the legality of anything can be settled in an internet forum - ever.
And all the legal questions remain completely unanswered as a result.

Internet forums create an endless game of he/said-she/said that eventually deteriorate into outright name-calling. (for yet another example, see Chris's post above this one where he once again calls Bill Kalush a "crook" and states definitively that Kalush is "breaking the law").

What does this name calling accomplish?
I would posit that the correct answer is "absolutely nothing".

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 11:41 pm

Again I ask the naysayers: Does Chris own the copyright or not? Not one of the naysayers and defenders of Kalush have told me that he doesn't. They KNOW that he does. They KNOW that the stuff doesn't belong to CARC. They KNOW. But yet they put up the smokescreen and try to distract from answering the simple question.

Does Chris own the copyright? WELL DOES HE?

OK. I know you don't want to answer so I had better be persistent. DOES HE?

Well DOES HE? DOES HE?

Oh one moment please. I forgot I was talking to people that do not have the privilege of a British education. I do apologise. I shall try again.

DOES CHRIS OWN THE COPYRIGHT? YES OR NO?

Nobody seems to have told me no. I wonder why..................................

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 12th, 2016, 11:43 pm

Roger M. wrote:
What does this name calling accomplish?
I would posit that the correct answer is "absolutely nothing".


Oh I think it HAS accomplished something. Think about it.
The word is "awareness"

User avatar
Mahdi Gilbert
Posts: 50
Joined: May 5th, 2016, 10:06 am
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 13th, 2016, 7:34 am

Richard, you know I have a lot of respect for you with everything you've done for magic, but I do not believe what is happening here is acceptable.

I post a topic called "Conjuring Arts Book Club" to let members of your board find out about a new program. And instead of giving an opportunity for people to even discuss the Book Club, you and your moderators allow people to completely takeover the thread with slander and accusations. People are probably afraid to comment on the actual book club by now. Why don't the people who want to attack Conjuring Arts create their own thread? They can title it "Conjuring Arts Copyright" and discuss it there. Just the fact that you allow people hijack my thread is a reason why my opinion of your forum goes down with every post.

You let people call us liars, crooks, thieves, and criminals who are breaking the law. When I mention it, I'm told that I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. The truth is very simple.

If any of the people slandering us had a real case then they would take it to the legal system and have it taken care of.

So it's very curious that instead of taking legal action that they spend all day hitting the refresh button thinking of new insults and accusations to hurl out. And no matter if this conversation continues with 9,999 replies from me one of the trolls will always find some way to spin it.

Some of the people commenting are very unhappy, there's no doubt about that. But it's a disgrace that you host people when all they have to contribute are defamation and character assassination attempts.

As I said, it's no wonder why more people who are serious about magic visit this forum. It's disgraceful.

Jack Shalom
Posts: 422
Joined: February 7th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Jack Shalom » October 13th, 2016, 8:25 am

It is the crux of the issue and no other smokescreens matter. Does he own the copyright? YES or NO.?

No, Mark, that's not the crux of the matter. The crux of the matter is whether CARC is doing something illegal and unethical.

IF the library analogy holds, then CARC is doing nothing illegal nor unethical.

But admittedly, that's a big IF.

That's the crux of the matter.

User avatar
Tom Stone
Posts: 1240
Joined: January 18th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Tom Stone » October 13th, 2016, 8:26 am

Mahdi Gilbert wrote:The truth is very simple.

If any of the people slandering us had a real case then they would take it to the legal system and have it taken care of.

You know that's not true. More than 95% of this kind of conflicts are solved through peer pressure. Kalush isn't the first magic dealer that have ended up in this situation.

User avatar
Richard Kaufman
Posts: 23822
Joined: July 18th, 2001, 12:00 pm
Favorite Magician: Theodore DeLand
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Richard Kaufman » October 13th, 2016, 8:37 am

It's not economically feasible to take any of this to court. If you understood the cost of just the depositions you would know that you're $20,000 in the hole before you even get to trial.

No one is going to spend that money. And that is why the naughty business continues unabated.

Mahdi: what you're complaining about is the nature of the internet. It's a beast that takes topics down a rabbit hole. If you post, you take a chance that threads are going to get hijacked on topics that are indeed related because they also involve CARC. Do I think what you're proposing is great? Yes. I think everyone would agree with that. But there's too much baggage with the company involved.
Subscribe today to Genii Magazine

User avatar
lybrary
Posts: 776
Joined: March 31st, 2013, 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby lybrary » October 13th, 2016, 9:06 am

Mahdi Gilbert wrote:If any of the people slandering us had a real case then they would take it to the legal system and have it taken care of.

Mahdi, clearly you never had to deal with legal matters of this kind. Your view is childishly naive. I have two IP lawyers I work with. One is a litigation expert. I have also received counsel from the legal department of a large media company who does frequently engage in copyright lawsuits. Copyright disputes are dealt with in federal court. The cost of a typical copyright lawsuit is $250k-$500k and can easily reach a million dollar and more.

I come from a culture where suing somebody is not the first step to resolve disputes, but the last one. Peer pressure, customer boycotts, protests, appealing to a common moral and ethical standard are all ways to resolve this for the benefit of all. That is what we are doing here. Kalush is wrong. I know it, Richard knows it, most folks here know it, and you know it, too, because you have not offered any explanation or defense for CARC, because there is none. It is simply wrong to take copyrighted material and sell access to it without permission. Magic is a small community. One would hope that we could deal with each other in ethical ways.
Lybrary.com https://www.lybrary.com/
preserving magic one book at a time

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 13th, 2016, 9:14 am

Jack Shalom wrote:
It is the crux of the issue and no other smokescreens matter. Does he own the copyright? YES or NO.?

No, Mark, that's not the crux of the matter. The crux of the matter is whether CARC is doing something illegal and unethical.

IF the library analogy holds, then CARC is doing nothing illegal nor unethical.

But admittedly, that's a big IF.

That's the crux of the matter.


Don't be silly, Jack! You are talking like a bloody professor. Or even worse a lawyer. Or three thousand times as worse a law professor. On the other hand I talk like someone who knows what is what in the world and have come across people like Kalush all my life. In fact I am one of them so I understand perfectly what is going on.

I will not use the words illegal and unethical. I shall merely use the word "Iffy" And this is very iffy indeed. Something is either right or it is wrong. And this is as iffy as it gets.

Besides I am never wrong and I would have thought that anything I say should be regarded as gospel. And if I say that the crux of the matter is that whether Chris has the copyright or not then naturally it should be taken as cast in tablets of stone.

Mahdi is a friend of mine but I disagree with him on this. He keeps telling me privately that there is more to this that I don't know implying all sorts of hidden wickedness that I am not aware of. He tells me that things are more complicated than it first seems. Fair enough. However, he won't tell me what these complications are or what the other factors are. If he does so and after evaluation of them I deem them fair comment then my attitude may change. But since he hasn't as yet informed me as to what these mysterious factors are I can only go by what I see and what seems self evident to me.

I keep saying that I am inclined to be objective and if anyone can give me convincing evidence that Kalush is in the right ethically (I don't give a stuff about legally) then I am prepared to change my mind. Alas so far I have not seen the slightest smidgen of evidence to refute claims of infringement. All I see is just a legal codswallop smokescreen.

Richard is correct. Sueing people over something like this is overkill and just not worth it for the stress, time and expense involved. And what people don't realise is that just because you win a case (which is difficult enough) doesn't mean that anything is solved. You have to waste more money and time to collect on the judgement. And the collection can be far worse aggravation than the judgement itself. So all this prattling about taking things to court is nothing more than a distraction.

Since Kalush doesn't seem to be making any money out of these magazines (at least I don't think so) he must be digging in his heels with such obstinacy for reasons that are quite beyond me. I think he is doing himself more harm than good and this thread is an example of it.

User avatar
Mahdi Gilbert
Posts: 50
Joined: May 5th, 2016, 10:06 am
Contact:

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Mahdi Gilbert » October 13th, 2016, 9:57 am

It's ok. I'm done with this forum.

I thought I would do a nice thing by reaching out to the members of this forum to let them know about a free book club. But you people have no interest other than lying, smearing, and slandering people. You insult me for no reason telling me that I'm naive and knowingly doing something unethical and illegal.

It's not my fault you can't afford your own legal fees. If I had the money just floating around I would cover all your legal fees and broadcast the trial live so that everyone could actually become informed. But you have no interest in actually informing people.

This conversation cannot go anywhere. The owner and moderators don't actually care to create an environment where people can have proper conversations. You even refuse keeping a conversation on track when it clearly has nothing to do with the subject title and first post. You refuse to create a new thread devoted to this subject. You only want to promote deception and accusations.

So you guys can have your forum to yourselves. I will not be involved with this forum any longer. I only have a limited number of hours that I can devote to magic a week and I have no interest in sharing that time with you.

performer
Posts: 2163
Joined: August 7th, 2015, 10:35 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby performer » October 13th, 2016, 10:13 am

Mahdi, please don't be upset and take this all so personally. Nobody has a quarrel with YOU! I do agree about starting a separate thread concerning the book club. I think that you should cut and paste your original post and start another thread with that and ask Richard to protect it from this conversation. Then we can continue fussing here.

I most certainly DON'T think you are "knowingly" doing anything unethical and illegal. On the contrary I admire your unstinting loyalty. I just think you are mistaken. I know that YOU have the utmost integrity and are serious about the art of magic. I would not call you "naive" either. I would prefer to use the word "innocent". Not everyone realises the burdens that lawsuits can cause to parties and you are not to be blamed for this lack of knowledge since you are not alone in this.

My advice to you is to let Kalush fight his own battles, start the new thread and ask Richard to let it run without interference and don't fuss too much about this copyright business. It is not your battle so simply distance yourself from it. It is not worth you getting upset by this.

Roger M.
Posts: 1232
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 13th, 2016, 10:22 am

It's really only the Genii Forum readers that lose by Mahdi's departure. But CARC's unproven vilification in this thread made that departure inevitable.

Despite the claims of Chris and others that "most" people in the thread agree with them, the actual thread doesn't support that statement - and "most" people likely don't agree with him at all.

Indeed, it would appear that most folks accept that there is far more to the story than either side has actually shared, and that the entire argument is entirely misplaced by being held on an internet forum, rather than a court of law.

    I'm disappointed that Chris has once again been permitted to derail an otherwise interesting thread.
    I'm disappointed that Mahdi has chosen to not share any further information in the Genii Forum (although not at all surprised).
    I'm disappointed that this thread wasn't cleaned up to reflect the original topic, which was a free book club.
    I'm disappointed that blatant name calling, crossing into libel has been deemed acceptable in this thread.

No turning back the clock now though, it's a shame.

Roger M.
Posts: 1232
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm

Re: Conjuring Arts Book Club

Postby Roger M. » October 13th, 2016, 10:49 am

lybrary wrote: The cost of a typical copyright lawsuit is $250k-$500k and can easily reach a million dollar and more.



But if you're absolutely confident that you're 100% correct in your accusations here in the forum, you've nothing to lose, and will recover all funds invested in prosecuting your case?

... unless you already know that you're not 100% correct in your accusations?


Return to “General”