What the Name of this Card Principle?

[Ray Eden]

Hello,

What is the name of the card principle where cards are counting one at a time to the table from 10 down to one, and when the number of the card coincides with the number in the count, the count is terminated and a new pile started? I hope I've given enough of a description for someone to recognize it.

Thanks in advance,
Ray Eden

[Philippe Billot]

In The Fine Art of Magic (1948), Kaplan name it "Natural Card" but I think the principe was explained before by Charles Jordan or Bob Hummer.
If someone can confirm...

[Anthony Vinson]

According to Roberto Giobbi in Card College Lightest, the method was devised by Henry Christ and first publish without attribution in Scarne on Card Tricks, then later published by Martin Gardner with credit to Christ. It was published in the Scarne book under the title Mathematical Finder. See Numerology in Card College Lightest at page 88.

[Ray Eden]

Thanks for the replies. Now I've got to decide which source to believe.

[Philippe Billot]

Yes, it's Henry Christ. Gardner confirm it in Mathematics, Magic and Mysteries published in 1956.
Now, how Kaplan learn the principe as he writes his book in 1948 and Scarne published Scarne on Card in 1950, it's another story...

[Denis Behr]

I'm not sure Kaplan is talking about the same thing. He is looking for a card that happens to be in the correct position to point to a selection or another specific card by its numerical value. It's a tool with an element of risk.

Most of those backwards count tricks, in which various piles are formed, do not really have much to do with Kaplan's application. The general principle used in those piles tricks is older, here are some versions: http://www.conjuringarchive.com/show.php?cat=699

[Philippe Billot]

Hi Denis,

In Count your Card by Annemann in The Book without a Name (1931) is the principe used ?

I know why I quote Hummer, it's because it seems to me that the principe is used in his trick Fantastric (1941).

[Denis Behr]

As I view it, Annemann's trick uses neither principle but instead a set-up, while Hummer uses the same principle as Kaplan. The piles trick asked for in the original posting is different though ("... the count is terminated and a new pile started"), and versions are in my previous link (that includes one from Hoffmann).

[Philippe Billot]

Thanks Denis

[Ray Eden]

I found the source (Spectral Chill by Jeff Stone) that I have for the principle that I tore my office apart yesterday trying to find before giving up and asking here. There it is being called "The 11 Card Principle". Here is what is written:

According to Roberto Giobbi in Card College Lightest, the method was devised by Henry Christ and first publish without attribution in Scarne on Card Tricks, then later published by Martin Gardner with credit to Christ. It was published in the Scarne book under the title Mathematical Finder. See Numerology in Card College Lightest at page 88.

He quotes Wesley James as saying:
The principle that is the underpinning of this effect is sometimes called "The 11 Card Principle" and, as best as I recall, it first appeared in Professor Kunard's The Book of Card Tricks in 1922...

Stone then lists:

Scarne on Card Tricks
By John Scarne;
Effect: Mathematical Finder
and
Card College Vol. III
By Robert Giobbi;
Effect: Numerology

[Philippe Billot]

Hi Ray,

Is there a reference to a book relative to Wesley James' citation ?


Incidentally, Kunard's The Book of Card Tricks was first published in 1888.

[Ray Eden]

No. Wes is only quoted.

[Philippe Billot]

Denis,

Can we say that the principle is described in The Magician's Own Book (1857), page 64 under the title To Ascertain the Number of Points on Three Unseen Cards ?

Henry Christ method would be an alternative.

[Denis Behr]

Yes, see also Gibecière, Vol. 2 No. 2, page 164.

[Philippe Billot]

OK

Merci beaucoup !