Paul Fox Cups and Balls

[Ben James 1]

Hi all,

Interested to learn a bit more about these cups. Are they available to purchase? (which may be a silly question).

Are originals identifiable in any way? (markings etc)

What would you expect to pay for a set if you found some?

Who was Paul Fox?

Thankyou in advance.

[Jonathan Townsend]

A polite email to the host of the cups and balls museum might get you some history and a view of the items in question.

A quick search should bring you to something about his "miracle gimmick" and a sense that he was a clever magician from early last century. About the cups he had made: In overview - there was significant progress in optimizing cup design so three balls could set on top of one inverted cup and then be covered by another cup into a nest - and also in proportioning the cup so that the cup looks as small as possible when set next to the largest feasible final load ball.

The trademark (PF) and name was disputed as property until recently. See history of ebay auctions and a person with initials J. B.

[Bill Mullins]

Who was Paul Fox?

Let me Magicpedia that for you.

The "J. B." that J. T. is referring to is Jeff Busby. For a while before he died, he claimed ownership of the Paul Fox trademark, and using ebay's VERO program, would cancel any ebay auctions that used the phrase "Paul Fox" (which is not what owning a trademark should let you do, and it is disputed my some who should know that he actually owned the trademark in question).

Yes, you can buy Paul Fox cups.

[I.M. Magician]

They are beautiful cups but very expensive. If you are looking for an excellent set of cups in copper or aluminum at a great price, check out my post for MORRISSEY CUPS AND BALLS posted on the Genii Forum about a week ago.

The no longer made MORRISSEY Cups and Balls are quite nice and a great stepping stone to a top shelf set if you choose to upgrade later.

[mrgoat]

They are beautiful cups but very expensive. If you are looking for an excellent set of cups in copper or aluminum at a great price, check out my post for MORRISSEY CUPS AND BALLS posted on the Genii Forum about a week ago.

The no longer made MORRISSEY Cups and Balls are quite nice and a great stepping stone to a top shelf set if you choose to upgrade later.

Kinda like comparing a beautiful filet mignon with a dog turd, isn't it?

I've been through about 10 sets of cups and recently bought some brett sherwood ones. I wish I hadn't bothered with the cheap ones.

[erdnasephile]

Yes, you can buy Paul Fox cups.

Does anyone use these RNT2 Paul Fox cups? Some of the finishes offered (i.e. 24K Gold plate) are pretty, but how do they hold up in real world use? How do they compare to the Busby Paul Fox cups?

To the OP: If you are interested in Paul Fox type cups, I'd take a look at these, which I think are the Rolls Royce of cups: http://sherwoodmagic.com/ (The "smoothies" are not that much more expensive than the RNT2 Cups)

[Tom Gilbert]

I have a set of the real Paul Fox/Danny Dew cups which are nickle plated. They are pretty light weight. Since they are original and light, I don't really use them, more of a collector's piece. I really do enjoy working with Sherwood copper and RNTII Stainless PF cups. I've tried some other designs Miller/Bertram, etc, but by far I like the PF design.

[Ben James 1]

Thankyou very much to all who replied. It is greatly appreciated and thanks for the links and info aswell.

[Don Hendrix]

The best bargain I ever got in magic was a set of Paul Fox copper cups direct from Danny Dew for $18, including postage. They look as good today as they did when
I got them about 40 years ago.

[Leonard Hevia]

When he published The Very Best of Cups and Balls in 1979, Frank Garcia wrote "In doing the Cups and Balls, one may use almost any set of cups and balls. For practical reasons, the Paul Fox cups are definitely the best because of their design. They appear to be smaller than what they really are. They will nest beautifully with three balls resting on top of the second cup and the final load will always appear larger than the cup itself...I will again strongly advise the reader to purchase a set of the original 'Paul Fox' cups from your favorite dealer."

Those words were written 35 years ago and they still reverberate to this day. Donnie Buckley at RNT2 is doing a bang up job with this cup. The key word here is consistency. The cups roll out of production uniformly made and with the same .050 gauge copper. The quality control in Danny Dew's tenure wasn't there consistently. The cup specs are not identical to the original Danny Dew line of cups, but that shouldn't stop anyone interested in purchasing a Paul Fox set from RNT2. Donnie is also doing a great job manufacturing other styles of desirable cups that were difficult to find 10 years ago.

Don Hendrix can easily ask $500.00 for his original set of Danny Dew cups, assuming he took good care of them, and according to him, they still look nice.

[Steve Mills]

The best bargain I ever got in magic was a set of Paul Fox copper cups direct from Danny Dew for $18, including postage. They look as good today as they did when
I got them about 40 years ago.

In the same time period, I bought his silver plated cups for $25.

I will say, that Danny's cup maker didn't waste a lot of silver! Even though I've done nothing but polish over the years, they really could use a good replating.

My question - would replating hurt the collector value on these? Thanks for any input.

[erdnasephile]

The best bargain I ever got in magic was a set of Paul Fox copper cups direct from Danny Dew for $18, including postage. They look as good today as they did when
I got them about 40 years ago.

In the same time period, I bought his silver plated cups for $25.

I will say, that Danny's cup maker didn't waste a lot of silver! Even though I've done nothing but polish over the years, they really could use a good replating.

My question - would replating hurt the collector value on these? Thanks for any input.

In other types of collecting, attempts at restoration (unless done by an expert) tends to harm value. I'm not a cup collector, but pesonally, I'd leave them in situ unless you aren't planning to sell and just want to make them nice for yourself. (Full disclosure: I did replate a P and L table base tube, but I wanted to use it instead of selling it.)

[Leonard Hevia]

The late J. P. Jackson coined the "Paul Faux" name for the Chinese copies that began to stream in around 10 years ago.

[Don Hendrix]

.

Don Hendrix can easily ask $500.00 for his original set of Danny Dew cups, assuming he took good care of them, and according to him, they still look nice.

The money I would get from selling them would just be spent. My Danny Dew cups are forever.

[Leonard Hevia]

Donnie Buckley at Rings-N-Things is currently spinning authentic reproductions of the Paul Fox/Danny Dew Type 2 cups. They're made to vintage specs directly from the old sets. The best features from the variations of the Type 2 cups were incorporated into this design. They look nice:


http://www.rnt2.com/paul-fox-vs-cups-co ... inish.html