ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING THE FUTURE OF THE FORUM: SUBSCRIBERS ONLY STARTING NEXT WEEK

[Richard Kaufman]

The code could be communicated to anyone via e-mail or phone. Already thought of that. (But nice try, Pete.)

[Guest]

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Hi Gord, yes, that's the kind of thing I have in mind.

Joe Pike = Ricky Jay? I don't think so. Besides, Ricky has a subscription to Genii. :)

Aah. It was worth a laugh... ;)

So do I, under another name.

[Richard Kaufman]

Well, Joe, then you'll continue to be able to use the Forum under your current pseudonym. The only person who will have access to the list of actual subscribers and pseudonyms will be me, and confidentiality will be an important part of this new system. My lips will be sealed. I don't care if my friends want to make provocative remarks. :)

[Guest]

I was going to give the same sudjestion,but then

I thought that the magazine should be enclosed

in a plastic wrap as for subscriber,right?

And the code,or easier,a word at at a certain

page,should be valid a certain period.......

Alessandro.

[Richard Kaufman]

Hi Allesandro, your idea is a good one, and several others have made similar suggestions in private e-mails to me today.
The problem is that it would require too much work to make it a reality. And any code could easily be passed around to other people.

[Guest]

OK, OK..............last post, I promise.

If anybody can recommend an alternative forum to join, would they kindly email this sad, pathetic pasteboard-frollicker, please?

magicdaz@yahoo.com

Respectfully, over and out.

Darren

[Guest]

Richard Kaufman said:

Anyone see a way to make this work?

How about just forgetting the whole idea.

[Rick Ruhl]

You know how copper was formed? Two magicians fighting over a penny.

If you use this forum every day and you find it useful, what's wrong with paying 6.8 cents a day to access it?

Richard is in a business, a business to make money. Let him make his money, even though it's not alot. It amazes me to thing that people in their own business are rolling in dough and those who aren't are think they are owed something for free.

In the good old days, it cost $6.00 a hour on Compuserve and $5 an hour on GENie (GE's service) to be online. You had excelent support because the forum managers got paid and did the work full time.

Yes, this is a full time job, I did it online from 1979-1999. It takes about 18 hours a day to keep a forum running. Been there, done that.

So Richard should not change his plans, he's doing the right thing with the resources he has. My god, Dustin and Jim moderate for free and in the old days, I'd pay my forum managers $3,000 - $4,000 a month per forum to do the job right. No way that Richard can afford to do that, even though Dustin and Jim are high quality forum managers and are worth that and more.

6.8 cents a day. Open your wallet if you find the forum a value.

[Pete Biro]

how many folks does this represent?

[Richard Kaufman]

Unknown at present.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Rick Ruhl:
You know how copper was formed? Two magicians fighting over a penny.

I heard this differently.

[Guest]

I subscribed for years then, for various reasons, stopped subscribing and got in the habit of picking up my copy at the local shop.

I just re-subscribed.
Helping (in an admittedly very VERY SMALL way) to keep Genii going is the important thing.

The Forum is icing on the cake, and it would stink to "lose contact" with a number of you folks--I've grown accustomed to some of you kooks ;) .

[Guest]

The current registered membership is 10045- why not continue to allow these members (non -subscribers and all) the ability to post and any future forum applicant to provide subscription details in order for them to post.

A workable compromise?

[Guest]

I completely support Richard in his decision and was, I believe, the first to write him and tell him so. Time each day is limited, especially with a monthly production like Genii. Having an expensive, time-consuming bonus like the Forum as a service to non-subscribers makes little business sense.

Like any small magazine, Genii is massively labor-intensive. The magazine is produced by a tiny number of people. Imagine running a business where every month you had to produce a new, high-quality product that was similar in format to the previous months product, but with all new content. Well, thats what magazine publishing is all abouta new production every single month of the year. How many of you could do that?

On top of keeping up the quality you have to deal with writers who are either paid a small stipend or donate their time and talent, advertisers who dont necessarily always get their copy or their ad revenue in on time, and subscribers who miss issues, and the political dimensions in dealing with various magic societies. Having been in Richards position with a magazine I edited some years back, I know exactly what hes going through.

Out of all of this he is supposed to make enough money to support himself and his family.

On top of all of that, far too many magicians are cheap bastards who fail to understand the real costs and the real values of things. Genii is dirt cheap for the quality of product you get. It should be far more expensive than what Richard charges. A rate of $53 is peanuts compared to some niche market publications. It could easily be half again what Richard now charges and still be under priced.

I'm amazed to hear of guys who buy some lame DVD that's full of crappy, unworkable "magic" for an exorbitant price but cant afford $53 a year for the quality of news, articles, and effects that Genii provides.

Just reading one review and avoiding a crappy book or DVD would save you the cost of the subscription. It should pay for itself in those kinds of savings alone.

[Guest]

Richard;
I feel that requiring subscribtions to post on the Genii Forum is a wise business and a necessary decision. To show my support for this decision, I am willing to donate a set of cups to a subscriber of Genii who is randomly drawn from the Genii Subscriber list by you (Richard) on January 31, 2008. :eek:

This offer is for those with active Genii subscriptions only. If having the Genii Forum as a subscription value added feature is not enough for people, perhaps this will prove to be an incentive to subscribe. This cup set offer is subject to your (Richard's) approval, of course.

As for foreign exchange rates, I utilize a credit card service (rather than a merchant's account) for credit card transactions. This service automatically converts my prices into over 30 different currency values as per the exchange rate at the time the order is placed. Such a service might be a possibility for foreign orders.

For those buying issues at brick and mortar stores, perhaps a peel off "proof of purchase" sticker could be included inside every sealed issue sold in shops.

OK, guys, let's support Richard in this decision.
Jim

[Guest]

More proof of what I've know for years: Jim Riser is a hell of a guy!

[Carlo Morpurgo]

Originally posted by Jim Riser:
Richard;
I feel that requiring subscribtions to post on the Genii Forum is a wise business and a necessary decision. To show my support for this decision, I am willing to donate a set of cups to a subscriber of Genii who is randomly drawn from the Genii Subscriber list by you (Richard) on January 31, 2008. :eek:

This offer is for those with active Genii subscriptions only.

Great idea! But why not restrict the list only to those who subscribed or re-subscribed starting from today ;) ? ....makes more sense as an incentive.
Yes, I just re-started my subscription today (before your offer, after the announcement).

Carlo

[Richard Kaufman]

Thank you, David and Jim, for your support.

The idea is to have only current subscribers allowed to post on the Forum. Each month, people who haven't renewed will have their Forum posting priviliges blocked. If they renew, posting privileges will be reinstated (for me this is as simple as checking a box).

This will start next week.

[John LeBlanc]

Originally posted by Eoin O'Hare:
The current registered membership is 10045- why not continue to allow these members (non -subscribers and all) the ability to post and any future forum applicant to provide subscription details in order for them to post.

A workable compromise?

I think the workable compromise occurred when Richard decided only Genii subscribers would be able to post.

Since I'm typing anyway, I'll add my full support for this decision. I think it's an elegant solution to a number of issues involving this board.

The fact that all it takes to post here -- to actively participate -- is a subscription to the magazine is a hell of a deal. I'm at a complete loss to understand why anyone who participates on this forum finds it a problem to subscribe to the magazine. (I think anyone interested in magic should be subscribed anyway, but that's another subject.)

John

[Guest]

Blimey - who rattled David Alexander's cage??

Most of the people expressing concern at Richard's decision BUY Genii magazine from their local dealer! We're not "cheap bastards" or freeloaders! I think it is the best magazine available, and congratulate Richard on his achievements. The situation may not be ideal as far as Richard is concerned, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If readers who buy their magazine from dealers are not valued then there is a simple solution - don't supply the dealers with copies! This would force those who want to read the mag to subscribe!! Somehow I can't see this happening.

I wonder what percentage of the readership buy their copies from dealers compared to those who subscribe? I suspect that we "second rate" readers contribute greatly to reducing the unit cost of an issue.

At the end of the day Richard is free to make his own choice - he runs the show. If I am barred from posting on the forum, then so be it. I will still continue to buy Genii, my favourite magazine, from my local dealer.

The effect of barring non subscribers from posting is, as yet, unknown. In my opinion, if this results in less news, gossip, advice and information, then EVERYBODY loses, subscribers and non-subscribers alike!

Dave

[Richard Kaufman]

Dave (aka Jonesey), people who purchase Genii from dealers are not second-class citizens. We value all readers equally.

We have almost four times as many subscribers as we do readers who buy from dealers.

While we don't make any money from magazines sold to dealers, all the additional readers make our advertisers very happy. And when our advertisers are happy, we're happy, because advertising revenue is what pays the printing bill each month.

[Guest]

I don't post often, considering the length of time I have been a member here, but do love reading others' informative contribution, so I wouldn't really miss much, but I just recently re-subscribed to Genii after a few years' absence, so I guess I am covered, anyway.

IMHO, I don't see how spending the time to drive (especially if you live in the Los Angeles area as I do) each month for a copy can beat having the magazine simply and reliably delivered right up to the door of your home...and do agree with Richard, if you really want to support your local store, buy their other merchandise...no offence implied.

[Guest]

Originally posted by George Guerra:
IIMHO, I don't see how spending the time to drive (especially if you live in the Los Angeles area as I do) each month for a copy can beat having the magazine simply and reliably delivered right up to the door of your home...

Try being on the receiving end of the quality postal service the Royal Mail offers us UK residents.

[Richard Kaufman]

PapaG, do you "subscribe" through Davenports, International Magic, or Kaymar?

[Mark Paulson]

Boy, I'm sure glad I decided to subscribe last month. For me, it is much less of a hassle to go out to my mail box than to drive all the way to a store to buy Genii. Half the time, they were sold out and I was out of luck.

I hope the forum will continue to be as fun to read as the magazine has been.

Good luck, Richard. I'm sure it will all work out for the best. People just don't like change, but they usually get used to it.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
PapaG, do you "subscribe" through Davenports, International Magic, or Kaymar?

International Magic

[Guest]

Good Idea! I was the kind of guy who walked over to Flosso's and had lunch with Jackie twice a week in the 90's..and would buy my mags thru him, as "support". I understand where most of you guys are coming from. I would never want to buy a VHS or DVD, just not my style. I did enjoy chatting with whomever walked through the door, and I do enjoy this forum very much. I am a little suprised that you (Richard) didn't try this a few years ago, you may have bumped a few egos by waiting till the numbers reached almost 10,000.
---Avatars would be cool. Adding a picture to the words helps visualize a guy or gal, even if they are faked or cartoonish. I guess I would also be in favor of total forum use, this way I might feel safer using my real name. Why would you cut short of total member/subscriber forum? Besides attracting possible subscriptive motives? Not too sure if anyone would want to just read, and not write. Let's go all the way with this...
---Also I would like my number to be real low, like one that corresponds with the number of posts I've had here at the funny forum, say...number 18 or 19!!

[Guest]

Another question for Richard,

When you say "next week" for this changeover, do you have any particular day in mind?

[Guest]

Originally posted by George Guerra:
I don't post often, considering the length of time I have been a member here, but do love reading others' informative contribution, so I wouldn't really miss much, but I just recently re-subscribed to Genii after a few years' absence, so I guess I am covered, anyway.

IMHO, I don't see how spending the time to drive (especially if you live in the Los Angeles area as I do) each month for a copy can beat having the magazine simply and reliably delivered right up to the door of your home...and do agree with Richard, if you really want to support your local store, buy their other merchandise...no offence implied.

Some of us buy the magazine AND other stuff.

I've been involved with Midwest Magic now for several years working there on Saturday and for lectures, etc. (free help) Many of our customers use stopping by to get the magazine as a good "reason" to come in at least once a month. All of them buy more than just a copy of the magazine.

In this day and age anything that helps bring customers into a real brick and mortar shop (like Tim Felix has with Midwest Magic)at least once a month helps keep them going.

Glad I got this last post in before next week. For now I plan to continue to get my copy every month at the shop.

[Jim Martin]

For those who wish to continue to purchase their monthly copy from a local magic dealer, one solution would be to subscribe to Genii directly (or through their local dealer, if possible), and indicate the issue to be delivered to the local dealer and held for pickup in the name of the subscriber.

I would imagine that continued access to the Forum, as well as the savings in postage (especially overseas) would make this a win-win.

We need to make this work to support Richard, Genii and this great Forum.

[Richard Kaufman]

Interestingly, and I'm sure most folks in the US are unaware of this, dealers in the UK actually sell subscriptions to Genii. The customer comes into the shop to pick up the magazine, or it is mailed to them. I consider these valid subscriptions, because the commitment has been made to buy all 12 months of the magazine.
Perhaps dealers in the US can do the same thing?

[Richard Kaufman]

We can barely keep up with all the paperwork as it is. Adding additional paperwork, signing new people up constantly and taking others down based on information coming in from small dealers around the country only means more work. Much more work. And for what?

We make no money off the Forum other than a few hundred bucks a year off the measly amazon.com percentage from the boxes at the right. It makes no sense to create any more work for ourselves if there is no increased profit.

That's what some people do not seem to understand here: we make no money from the Genii Forum. For all intents and purposes, it's ZERO. Why bother with all the work? What are we killing ourselves for? Many people think everything on the Internet should be free. Well, starting next week, the Forum will only be free for people who subscribe to Genii.

[Guest]

Originally posted by John LeBlanc:
...I'll add my full support for this decision. I think it's an elegant solution to a number of issues involving this board.

The fact that all it takes to post here -- to actively participate -- is a subscription to the magazine is a hell of a deal. I'm at a complete loss to understand why anyone who participates on this forum finds it a problem to subscribe to the magazine. (I think anyone interested in magic should be subscribed anyway, but that's another subject.)

John

I'll echo those who are in favor of this. I recently starting subscribing again after buying from shops for the past couple of years.

I agree with John that it's a small price to pay. A couple of years ago when I started the MentalistSanctum.com, there were a lot of hoops you had to jump through to be a part of the forums and participation was mandatory. After turning the board over to John LeBlanc, he kept a similar set of ground rules. You can't even read the posts there unless you're a member.

Exclusivity isn't a bad thing. Magic seems to have moved away from this in recent years, especially when it comes to the web. I'm looking forward to the change.

[Roger M.]

Originally posted by Steven Pellegrino:
Exclusivity isn't a bad thing. Magic seems to have moved away from this in recent years, especially when it comes to the web. [/QB]

I don't think this move is going to make anything exclusive. Richard has said the forum will be "read-only" to anybody lurking around........they'll just not be able to post.

If anything, it seems somewhat LESS exclusive to have a few hundred folks chatting amongst themselves and a few thousand folks reading what they post and then running back to the Magic Cafe to talk about it.

Even those folks who might consider subscribing just to keep access to the forum don't seem to understand the concept that when Richard wipes the database of all 10,000 users, that's it......they're gone...........and what if only 300 subscribers sign back up?
(EDIT: this is actually an overstatement on my part, as Richard will obviously leave existing subscribers in the database as active users. Still not known exactly how many people that will be).

Even with this move designed to prompt subscriptions, I don't think it's a process I myself would have devised. Personally, I'll be waiting to see exactly HOW MANY users sign back up before deciding to subscribe in order to access the forum.......that and when my Canadian dollar is taken at its true value.

But it's not my business, it's Richard's business. I totally respect the fact that this is all being done with his money and taking up his time.

[Richard Kaufman]

Actually, Blair, we will be deleting all 10,000 users. It would be a huge amount of work to sort through them and find the subscribers. Any subscriber who wants to participate will have to register anew.

[Roger M.]

Actually Richard, your post made me go back and re-read my own post.
Perhaps caught up in the heat of the discussion I'm making this more complicated than it need by for my own situation.

If you give me fair value for my Canadian dollar, which is currently trading a fraction higher than the American dollar, I'll subscribe today.

[Richard Kaufman]

Using the Universal Currency Converter
(http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi)
$53 US Dollars = 54.0082 Canadian Dollars at this exact moment.

I see that we list an additional $23 for Int. Economy Service or an additional $33 for Airmail.

Tomorrow I will investigate the actual postage costs we pay to Canada and see about changing those numbers.

[Tom Ladshaw]

Originally posted by Rick Ruhl:
Genii magazine and access to the forum only cost 6.8 cents a day based on a one year subscription.

You're getting a heck of a lot better rate than *I* am. I'm paying more than fourteen cents a day.

[Richard Kaufman]

It's all that gator you've been eating, Tom. :)

[Rick Ruhl]

Originally posted by GatorGas:

Originally posted by Rick Ruhl:
[b] Genii magazine and access to the forum only cost 6.8 cents a day based on a one year subscription.

You're getting a heck of a lot better rate than *I* am. I'm paying more than fourteen cents a day. [/b]

I subscribed for 3 years a year or so ago, so I got a better value.

I always go for the best value, it may be more expensive up front, but it's cheaper in long run.

Maybe I can get user #16. That's my lucky number.

Now Tom, you can quit 'scrutinizing' me. LOL