ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING THE FUTURE OF THE FORUM: SUBSCRIBERS ONLY STARTING NEXT WEEK

[Richard Kaufman]

Yes. The Genii grants all wishes.

[Roger M.]

My subscription is in.

It was the ERDNASE thread in the end.
David Alexanders last post alone is enough to make the entire forum worthwhile.

Geez, now that I'm a member of the "club", let's kick out the jams and make it "subscriber only" even to read the posts :D

[Guest]

While you're granting Blair's wish, Oh Genii, you can address mine as well! My subscription is in the stack.

Stan thanks you too!

[Guest]

Originally posted by Rick Ruhl:
So if you all are too cheap to spend less than ten cents a day to contribute to what is considered the most professional magic community online, then you're part of a problem.

Stop wanting everything for free, just shut up and subscribe.

Thanks Rick. That makes the decision SO much easier.

Richard,
You're correct that it's an excuse to visit the magic shop, and only a token show of support, but since I dont' buy tricks, ever, it's what I have.

The only problem I've seen is the one of non-subscribers being able to answer a post, which could be addressed by people having valid e-mail addresses in their Profiles and non-subscribers knowing to send answers to e-mail address.

Posters could remind folks of that for awhile, until it becomes part of the culture of the board.

best,
bill

[Guest]

Well, let's see about the math. 14+ cents a day seems impressive but it may be easier to understand the math this way.

On the stand price for Genii is $6 per issue (the last time I saw one in the store). Times 12 that makes the yearly cost of Genii $ 72 . Still a bargain. But for $ 53 per year, the magazine will be delivered direct to yhe address of your choice. So by subsctibing you save $ 19 (and that does not include taxes) per year which could go a long way to a DvD or book at the store. (Not to mention what it could cost just getting to the store. The closest store where Genii is sold is 28 miles from my house one way).

And, yes I am a rocket scientist!

I am a member of a couple of "closed" forums, Buskers, Conjure Nation, etc. and they seem to be doing fine with that policy.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

Keep up the good work, Richard

[Bob Farmer]

I think this is a great idea. There are plenty of other places for those who want to babble for free.

[Guest]

Good Afternoon King Richard!

How does your current pain in the back compare with this current pain in the a**?

The ability to use the Collectors' Marketplace as a focused milieu for the acquisition and sales of things magica is worth the price of a subscription alone.

It seems that you finally got around to reading Adam Smith's, The Wealth of Nations.
Your Friend and Subscriber,
Doc

[Richard Kaufman]

Doc, my back is killing me. I have shooting pains down my left leg and an aggravated nerve in my left arm. So, this little transition on the Forum is mild by comparison! :)

[Guest]

Just received the following in an e-mail from John Edward:

What's going to happen to us Genii Forum members who have Internet service but NO POSTAL DELIVERY SERVICE??
Vanishing Like A Fading Cloud,
Howard Thurston

[Guest]

Originally posted by WhartonDoc:
The ability to use the Collectors' Marketplace as a focused milieu for the acquisition and sales of things magica is worth the price of a subscription alone.

The Collectors' Marketplace has always been one strong reason for my visiting the forum, though as a "reborn again" subscriber, access will not be an issue, but I do worry that many great items from "non-subscriber" collectors will now be unavailable for sale...unless this is the only thread open to all.

[Timothy Hyde]

Richard, while I don't find the need to post here often, I'm an avid reader of the forum and subscriber and fully support your decision.
I look forward to not reading some of the postings.

I would in fact go the extra step, as has already been suggested and make it a closed forum where only subscribers can read the forum, but I realise this is a giant leap. Perhaps revisit the notion when the dust settles in 12 months.

Regarding shop sales. My idea is not fully formed but I would suggest considering a Postcard/Voucher
that allowed a years access. Supply each of your dealers who carry the magazine a number of the cards relative to the number of mags they carry. (Half?) These could be given to their regular customers who had a mag put away for them each month. This is a win win for customer and dealer.
Customer sends you the postcard and you enter them in the db. To make it easier for you, access is only for the year the card is produced. eg till end of 2008. This means at the end of 2008 you need only go through the db once and flush those subscribers. Send out a new batch of vouchers in Jan 2009 etc.

I really don't see this would be a huge number of people anyway.

timothy

[Guest]

Hi Richard,

I haven't read eveything in this thread so I don't know if this has been asked yet. When you redo the forum will all the old posts still be available for searching? I have found this to be very helpful when researching some effects.

Thanks,
Gary

[Guest]

Richard,

I just read a little more and found the answer to my question. No need to respond.

-Gary

[Joe Pecore]

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:

The only stumbling block is people who faithfully purchase the magazine every month from a dealer--they should have access, too. However there's no way to police the lists of names that dealers send us. So if someone can figure that out, let me know.

You could put the wraps back on the magazine and have people send in 12 wraps to get a year access? ;-)

[Roger M.]

Originally posted by Timothy Hyde:

I would in fact go the extra step, as has already been suggested and make it a closed forum where only subscribers can read the forum, but I realise this is a giant leap.

I don't think it's a giant leap at all.

If (under this new mandate) you're not a subscriber to the magazine, why on earth should you be able to access information like the ERDNASE thread?
I don't see the line between reading and writing.

I mentioned in an earlier post the concept of discussing things here amongst friends, only to have hundreds or thousands of "lurkers" reading the posts........it sort of gives me the creeps.

[Bob Farmer]

I agree -- it should be a closed forum. No reading or writing if you're not a subscriber. However, I would have a small "sample" section that anyone could access so they can see the extra value their subscription provides.

The sample section would have teaser topics like: "Identity of Erdnase Finally Determined Conclusively" -- with a few posts that end with the cliffhanger, "... and so Erdnase is really -----"

[Guest]

If you close it off to all outsiders, then Genii loses a valuable advertising tool. I see no problem with people browsing the forums. I don't subscribe to Genii. I buy single issues based on the content that month. Seeing (reading) what others are saying about the articles and so forth is my main incentive for chasing down a hard copy of the magazine.

If this is locked down in it's entirety, I'm more than happy to spend my internet time elsewhere.

[Guest]

The only reason why I registered here was at the
encouragement of David Ben.

Inquiries for my book project here and other
interesting places it has led me have helped
a great deal.

I don't mind having to go back to a free forum
like the TMC where I am also loved (and under a
different assumed name).
Its about the only other forum where I do participate and have been lucky enough to have
some help there as well.

Like I said earlier, it was great posting here
because I did re-connect with some of my p's
old friends.

[Richard Kaufman]

As I stated earlier, anyone will be allowed to lurk on the Forums.

Posting privileges will be reserved for Genii subscribers (and those who buy it in magic shops if we can figure out a non-labor intensive way to make that work).

[Guest]

Richard,
Thank you. I was just answering the others who desired the forum to be locked down entirely. As you can see by my "member since" date and rather low post count, I'm happy to "lurk" here if that's your wish, checking out the topics and buying accordingly. This is a great advertising resource, but not without it's down side, including the hassles of managing it. I've done this on a smaller scale. I don't blame you. Sometimes I wish I can just pack it all up and let them fend for themselves. :rolleyes:

[Guest]

Originally posted by Blair Morris:

I mentioned in an earlier post the concept of discussing things here amongst friends, only to have hundreds or thousands of "lurkers" reading the posts........it sort of gives me the creeps.

Blair:

THAT sounds more than a little creepy.

"Here among friends"? First of all, having a subscription to Genii doesn't make any of the current folks here any more likely to be or not be your friends. Not much is going to change that way. And if you have some important private message, then you'd probably be better off sending an email or a letter in the mail anyway.

"Hundreds or thousands of lurkers reading your posts"? What catastrophes have happened here over the last five or so years while anyone from the Internet could read or post?

Please tell us you were kidding.

[Roger M.]

Steve, no I wasn't kidding......but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Guest]

Do wives of subscribers count?

[Guest]

Originally posted by Blair Morris:
My subscription is in.

It was the ERDNASE thread in the end.
David Alexanders last post alone is enough to make the entire forum worthwhile.

Geez, now that I'm a member of the "club", let's kick out the jams and make it "subscriber only" even to read the posts :D

Wow! Thanks Blair. I'm slightly stunned.

[Roger M.]

David, I've gone back and read your post a dozen times. It's exciting thinking about all the possibilities your research has opened up.

BTW, I'm sincere David......that post alone really drove home why the Genii forum is staying on the Bookmark Bar!

[Richard Kaufman]

10, ....

[Guest]

I'm glad I helped, Blair.

Looks like the countdown has begun.

[Richard Kaufman]

9 ...

[Richard Kaufman]

I'm pushing our webmaster, the wonderful Brad, to try and do the wipe tomorrow. He quoted me some line from Jurassic Park about "holding onto your butts!"

So, while the countdown has begun, it'll be slow because I'm going to bed soon! Busy writing up another trick for the Jennings book until then.

But, I expect it will happen sometime tomorrow or Wednesday. Brad tells me that the Forum will be shut down for a day or two at least until things shake out. So, continue to post until you get that "Shut down for maintainance" message, then check back a day or so later to re-register.

[Guest]

Well, I just want to say, before they cut off my oxygen, that it was a lot of fun.

[Guest]

All seems fair and sensible to me... I have been buying copies at a shop for a while but happy to re-subscribe.... What is the best way to do that? Via the website I guess?

Regards,

John

[Guest]

Duh! ..... Sorry just seen the subscribe button at the top.

:-)

J

[Guest]

Hi Richard

This is clearly a big step for you and I'm sure you have applied your mind ...

"Charging for access to a website really doesn't work: the number of people who feel everything on the internet should be free is very large; the number of people who want to pay for it is very small. Both The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times tried charging for internet access--both eventually relented and discontinued the charge. I don't want to charge for the Genii Forum--I think that's a bad idea. We'll end up with 150 people here."

Ultimately the big question is how many non-Genii subscribers currently post to the forum ? If the majority of subscribers are the ones posting then effectively the status quo remains as is - and the quality of the forum remains the same. No problem.

If there is a large bulk of non-subscribers posting - they will either subscribe ( in which case Richard's incentive / bonus idea has worked ) or they will go elsewhere. It could however be argued that you are indirectly 'charging' for the ability to post ... which as per the above - the pay per use model didnt work for the NY Times.

Crystal ball gazing ...
If the number of quality posts diminishes so does the number of people visiting the forum - the less people that visit the less posts the less appealing the forum becomes and so the cycle continues until the forum becomes of little use. In which case the forum is lost as an 'added' benefit to subscribers - and we return to the present situation just minus a forum.

Ultimately I think the move is going to be a very good one for Genii or ultimately a bad one - I can't see the middle ground. But only time will tell.

Hopefully its a good one as Genii does deserve all our support.

Would be interesting to know:

* whether any publication has experienced a similar issue specifically with a forum such as this

* in terms of the magazine industry as a whole - are magazine sales on the increase / decrease as a general trend or is more and more info being consumed in a digital format

[Guest]

I'm no expert on running a forum/website but I will side with Richard on this all the way. My thoughts on some 'compromises' (just random ideas):

1. Make certain sections of the forum available for subscribers. Keep others open for input. Links/hangouts/marketplace/buzz

2. Put a pass word in the magazine each month for those who buy it at magic shops?

3. Make it available for those who buy the great books Richard is putting out these days?

4. Make it available for those who join the Genii archive?

5. Run another promo (I got my 100 by Warlock w/my subscription...thank you very much :D )

And to quote another JR

Onward

"JR" Russell
Fly Navy

[Guest]

Originally posted by Craig Mitchell:
...If there is a large bulk of non-subscribers posting - they will either subscribe ( in which case Richard's incentive scheme has worked ) or they will go elsewhere. ...

Oh jeeze! The Magic Cafe better be prepared to handle the refugees. This could seriously skew the market there from the Hannah Montana demographic toward the Patsy Kline and Bobby Soxer's crowd.

[Guest]

I had been a subscriber for some time before I joined the Forum. I have always considered this place to be a terric, free "bonus" for subscribers. An extension of the great magazine that significantly increases its value.

I heartily support Richard's decision.

[Guest]

One of the reasons, perhaps the primary reason that subscriptions are more important than over-the-counter sales is that a subscription is a commitment with a certain dollar amount attached. That commitment allows the publisher to make plans, allocate monies, and generally run his business in an intelligent manner. Over-the-counter sales which do not produce the same profit practically none in Geniis case benefit the shop and the advertisers, not the publisher.

Richard has identified his core business as publishing and editing a magazine. Secondarily, he publishes books. These are the things that make him a living. The Genii Forum is an expensive albatross attached to the business that costs money and does not produce revenue in an appreciable manner.

His decision is both rational and business-like. What I find amusing is the people who say they will continue to spend $72 a year buying Genii in their magic shops when they could save time and money by subscribing and really support the magazine.

[Guest]

Oops! Make that "terrific".

[Guest]

One other observation: Every magic shop I've ever been in has hundreds if not thousands of things it can sell that make a profit for the shop owner.

Richard has Genii subscribers, Genii advertisers, and his magic book publishing company.

[Guest]

Over-the-counter sales which do not produce the same profit practically none in Geniis case benefit the shop and the advertisers, not the publisher.

Anything which benefits the advertiser benefits the publisher.

Also, as previously mentioned, the Forum should be looked at as a marketing vehicle which has value. Unless that value has been accurately measured and offset against the cost of producing it, then the subscription-only access concept is really just a shot in the dark. Best of luck with it.