The Gilbreath Principle

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Joe Mckay
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The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Joe Mckay » May 18th, 2011, 3:41 pm

Hey everyone,

I have a question which has being lurking in my mind for about 10 years. It all goes back to page 657 of the July, 1995 issue of GENII. As part of Gordon Bean's THE LOCKED ROOM colum there is an interview with Norman Gilbreath. Anyway - I just want to ask about this section of the interview:

GB: Now that I think of it, you certainly
must have done your share of method-fiddling.
Do you remember where the Gilbreath
Principle came from?

NG: I noticed that there were some effects, one
was Unbelievable by Eddie Joseph where the
cards were in some sort of order, and you did
something to them, and it did randomize them
a bit, but they still had some order to them.


What I am interested in finding out is where the effect 'Unbelievable' by Eddie Joseph was published? I have an effect called 'Just Unbelievable' in my copy of 'The Complete Dumbfounders With Cards'. And I am just wondering if this is the effect that Norman was referring to? It seems possible since the effect does have quite a counter-intuitive method.

So - does the effect 'Unbelievable' by Eddie Joseph ring any bells? I have searched on ASK ALEXANDER and seen no mention of such an effect.

All the best,

Joe

pduffie
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby pduffie » May 18th, 2011, 4:02 pm

I think "Unbelievable" was sold as a single-trick manuscript.

Brad Henderson
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Brad Henderson » May 18th, 2011, 6:21 pm

Could Norman have been mistaken in the authors name? There is an effect called unbelievable in which shuffled cards maintain a degree of order. It is by f Michael shields and bascom jones. It is a top stapled manuscript, not unlike some of the Joseph releases. Dated 1949

Joe Mckay
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Joe Mckay » May 18th, 2011, 6:26 pm

That is interesting. I did see that manuscript mentioned in an old magazine (on ASK ALEXANDER) so that did cross my mind. But - now that you mention it involves cards being shuffled (and a degree of order being maintained) then I will definitely check it out.

Thanks for your input!

Joe

Joe Mckay
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Joe Mckay » May 18th, 2011, 6:38 pm

Okay - I think Brad is definitely right. I have just seen some variations on the UNBELIEVABLE effect by Bascom Jones and Fred Shields - and I can definitely see how these effects would fit the description of 'cards retaining some kind of order after being randomised a bit'...

I also found Fred Shield's obituary from GENII - and in there it mentioned that some anthologists described UNBELIEVABLE as 'the card trick of the century'.

I am sure it won't be long till I track down a copy.

Thanks once again!

Joe

Edwin Corrie
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Edwin Corrie » May 18th, 2011, 6:49 pm

Unbelievable was a single-trick manuscript by Michael Shields and Bascom Jones Jr., published by Supreme by arrangement with Abbots and still available (e.g. from http://www.magicbooksbypost.co.uk/index.php). Its a matching cards effect with two lots of 26 cards which are in some sort of order, and you do something to them (the spectator shuffles, then you sort them out again). So it might well be the effect referred to.

Maybe there is some confusion with Eddie Josephs Impossible, which was also a single-trick manuscript and was also published by Supreme by arrangement with Abbots. But unless Im missing something its not the same principle. Two cards are chosen and the deck is split in two, then when you deal the halves at the same time the selections turn up together (like in Elmsleys Brownwaves).

The Gilbreath chapter in Arthur McTiers Card Concepts quotes the same Genii interview and has plenty to say about the principle(s).

Edit: Brad beat me to it! Those last posts weren't there a minute ago.

Joe Mckay
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Joe Mckay » May 18th, 2011, 7:02 pm

Cheers! Also - the link to the 'Magic Books By Post' site is really useful as well...

All the best,

Joe

Philippe Billot
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Philippe Billot » May 19th, 2011, 3:53 am

First ad in the Linking Ring, Vol. 49, no. 9, November 1949, back cover:

UNBELIEVABLE (Shields & Jones) Spectator from a shuffle deck, deals a face down card on each of 26 face up cards and pairs match. Really unbelievable and different. 4 pages Mss. (use your own cards). $1.00

Bob Farmer
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Bob Farmer » May 19th, 2011, 8:10 am

The S&J trick using two decks that retain some kind of order despite being altered byt the spectator, also fits the description of Eddie Joseph's "Staggered" effect (also an Abbott's manuscript). There one deck is in reverse order to the other and various things are made possible even though the decks are cut at random.

Philippe Billot
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Philippe Billot » May 19th, 2011, 9:09 am

TOPS, Vol. 14, No. 5, May 1949.

The effect of this trick is so colossal that it will stagger all who see it. The principle used will amaze and intrigue you, and we know, from our own experience, that you will work it on yourself repeatedly and still won't believe it.

STAGGERED uses two decks, one Red and one Blue.

You at no time touch or handle the decks.

A spectator removes the decks from cases. He fairly cuts deck. He can turn each deck face up in a spread to see that the decks are not set up one to match the other.

There IS no special set-up!

The cards do not follow each other in any known sequence. You definitely do not know the sequence of the cards.

Both decks are placed face down on table. You announce that the Red deck is incomplete, and you give the spectator a sealed envelope to place in his pocket. You also place a business card on the table. Spectator is requested to remove a card from the Blue deck and place it face up on the table. He then deals from both decks together.

Now suppose that the Blue card removed is the 6 of Diamonds, then when he comes to the 6 of Diamonds in the Red deck, he stops and puts the Red-backed card on top of the Blue 6 of Diamonds. Thus they are paired.

Now ask him to pick up the card that fell from the Blue deck at that particular time.

We will suppose this to be the Queen of Spades. Request him to lay this on the table and to remove the sealed envelope from his pocket. He opens the envelope (Remember you do not touch it) The card in the envelope will also be the Queen of Spades!

But that's not all. He squares up each deck again, cuts the deck and takes a Blue-backed card and places it in his pocket without looking at its face. You do not see it.

Again he deals both decks face up until you say, "Stop" and point to the Blue-backed card saying, "It matches the missing Red card." This is verified by referring to the business card and when he removes the Blue-backed card from his pocket, it matches the Red-backed card that fell at that particular point in the deal.

It's Uncanny! It's Unbelieveable!

And once again remember the Magician does not touch the cards or the sealed envelope, there are no moves.

It's Purely Automatic!

Can be repeated and, of course, as the decks are fairly cut, different cards are paired, etc.

You use two ordinary decks of 52 cards there are no duplicates.

Easy to do once you have the secret. STAGGERED will fool the smartest of card experts.

Ten 10 different presentations, plus an additional presentation for use in connection with a two person mental act. In typescript with printed covers. No cards supplied.

A $10 trick for the low price of $2.00 (We Pay the Postage)

Bob Farmer
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Bob Farmer » May 19th, 2011, 12:17 pm

I couldn;t find this on the Abbott's website, but several other sellers (authorized?) are selling it. There is also an Aldo Columbini DVD based on the trick. See:

http://www.wildcolombini.com/cart/produ ... e21010b331

It may be that Gilbreath confused the ad copy with the trick title and was actually referring to "Staggered."

Brad Henderson
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Brad Henderson » May 19th, 2011, 3:43 pm

The joNes shields effect uses a single deck.

Joe Mckay
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Joe Mckay » May 20th, 2011, 12:43 pm

I am not sure how much I can reveal - so don't ask me. But - for those like me (who love this principle) there will be some great news very soon. I won't say any more...

All the best,

Joe

Brad Henderson
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Brad Henderson » May 20th, 2011, 2:32 pm

That sounds like a magic castle/bursky/biro post, there, Joe.

Gordon Bean
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Gordon Bean » May 20th, 2011, 2:36 pm

I just checked with Norman, and, though he isn't sure about the names, it seems likely that he was thinking of the Shields/Jones trick, as that uses the "some order after a riffle shuffle" concept (notably explored by Charles Jordan in Trailing the Dovetail Shuffle to its Lair) that led to the experiments that led to the Gilbreath Principle. The Joseph misattribution most likely came from the fact that Staggered and Unbelievable share similar plots.

So thanks to Joel, Brad, Edwin, Bob, and everyone else for helping to set that straight after all these years.

(An interesting twist to all this is that one of Norman's strongest and most commercial routines, Halfway There, is based on Staggered--and doesn't use the Gilbreath Principle.)

Philippe Billot
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Re: The Gilbreath Principle

Postby Philippe Billot » June 4th, 2011, 12:02 pm

From M.I.N.T., Vol. 1, page 247 - 1988 (or New Tops, July 1966):

"The use of two decks set in reverse order to each other was first used by Eddie Joseph in an item marketed by Abbott Magic and title STAGGERED."


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