I am bored stiff!

[BlueEyed Videot]

With all these Choo Choos, I feel as if I've been suffering from hay fever.

What the hell IS the Choo Choo Train trick?

[Joe Pecore]

What the hell IS the Choo Choo Train trick?

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... ber=207444

[Jolly Roger]

http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubb ... Post207465


Here is a link to a different Choo Choo train thread, as the other appears to have been locked. JR

[Mark.Lewis]

I am now as sick of the bloody Choo Choo train trick as Munton is. I shall therefore describe the Fogel thing even though I don't really want to.

This applies if you need to get a lot of people coming up. It is a godsend to me in my hypnosis show where you need to get at least 10 people on stage. In a high school where I do these shows it is no problem whatsoever getting volunteers and in fact you can end up with too many. However in corporate environmenments or in other venues where people are loath to make a fool of themselves it can be a bit slow going on occasion to get people up.

This is a mental attitude rather than a technique. Fogel advised NEVER TO PANIC. I actually enjoy it when people are slow to come on up because I always admire my own brilliance at following the Fogel advice and I always end up with the requisite amount of people anyway. You can't really point people out in the audience and ask them to volunteer in a hypnosis show since they may not make good subjects if you force them up.

Fogel advised keeping absolutely calm and light heartedly saying things like "Don't all rush at once" He said that you have to think "I am the master" and not look in the slightest bit anxious. If you do then it will make matters worse. You must never say things like "If I don't have any volunteers then I can't do the show" If you do then that will be a death knell for the performance.

I am always in a good humour when volunteers are slow to come up. I know from being a pitchman that the hardest person to get up is the very first one. Once that happens the others will follow, albeit sometimes slowly. You just keep chatting and looking relaxed. When I come up against this I am in no rush. I know perfectly well that the show won't continue without me so I just chatter amiably saying things like "You are all very slow. Do you work for the post office" or "Take your time but hurry up"

All this is said in a light hearted way without panic of any kind. The second you show anxiety is the second that people get more reluctant. Remember, as Fogel said YOU ARE THE MASTER.

I have even got it to a point where obsessive compulsive disorder sets in. If I have ten chairs on stage and only 8 people come up I could continue the show with that number quite easily. However I utterly refuse to until the last two chairs are filled. Even if I have to wait a little longer. My attitude is that I MUST fill in that spare chair even if I have to wait another 15 minutes. Of course if I did have to wait 15 minutes that would be a disaster and in actual practice it is only another minute at most. However it is my ATTITUDE that is the important thing. No panic, no nervousness, no rushing, no anxiety whatsoever. I just go into relaxation mode and sooner or later everyone arrives on stage. It doesn't take anywhere near as long as it sounds and the people are entertained by my chatter when waiting.

Another thing I do which is specifically geared to hypnosis shows is to be as easygoing and courteous as possible and this helps to entice people on stage. Before I ask for volunteers I start my show with a card trick and I need someone to come up on stage to help. By treating this person with the utmost courtesy during the card trick it encourages the volunteers to come up when they are needed for the hypnosis section. If on the other hand I treated that person roughly I would have great difficulty enticing volunteers.

This Fogel technique is fully described in the 13 Steps of Mentalism and to me it has been the best damned thing in the book. It is in the Fogel interview in the Book Tests Step. I don't do one bloody book test from that step but I got something far more valuable.

I can recommend this procedure to anyone that needs a committee on stage.

[Pete McCabe]

I am sure that between Mark Lewis and Fogel at least one of them is a genius. But I have to say that this advice runs directly counter to the most basic principle of performing as dictated by Flash Mildew, which is: ALWAYS PANIC. Flash applied this principle to everything he did, but most particularly to getting volunteers. If you've ever seen Flash Mildew perform you should know that no one had more trouble getting people to volunteer than he did.

Mark's advice that treating your first volunteer courteously will make it easier to get volunteers for subsequent tricks may be good, but I wouldn't know because none of Flash Mildew's shows ever lasted more than one trick.

[James Munton]

Is everyone on this forum stark raving bonkers?

[Mark.Lewis]

No. Only you James. And Mc'Cabe of course.
Why do you say that anyway?

[James Munton]

Mark,

I just read your advice, or rather Fogel's advice, and I don't think this applies very well to a magic show. It is exactly what you do for a hypnotism show when you want to fill all the seats on a stage.

In a hypnosis show there is an expectation that people will go up on stage and you reinforce this in the opening lecture. In a magic show, there is no such expectation. So if you just stand there smugly waiting for people to join you on stage, you'll be waiting all bloody night.

Plus, if you do eventually manage to get a few people up, you'll probably end up with the very worst types of volunteers.

No, no, no, the more I think about it, this is awful advice for a magician. I previously stated that I agreed with 94% of what you said. Unfortunately, that has now dropped to 72%.

I am also very upset with Glenn Bishop who complimented you, but completely neglected to thank me despite the fact that on this thread my advice has been far more useful.

James

[Glenn Bishop]

Hey Mark I just would like to jump in here and thank you for such great advice. Thanks again.

Hi James - I am very sorry that your up-set. Thank you for the advice here on Marks Thread.

Just my opinion.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Is everyone on this forum stark raving bonkers?

Some appear less eager to learn than others.

[Mark.Lewis]

Thank you Jonathon. Munton does indeed have a lot to learn. He is quite young after all. The first thing he needs to learn is how to read. I have already stated above that the Fogel procedure is for more than two people who need to come on stage.

Magicians rarely need more than two and more often one only will suffice. Mentalists sometimes need more. I have already explained how to get one or two people up to help. If there are three or more you have no alternative but to ask for volunteers and in this case the Fogel advice is perfectly valid.

James. Maurice Fogel was a master showman. YOu are merely James Munton. If however in your infinite wisdom you know a method of enticing three or more people on stage without asking for volunteers then please tell us.

Otherwise methinks it would be wiser to deal with stuff where you know what you are talking about such as the dreadful Hot Book and the even more unspeakable Bra trick that you are prone to perform for the lower classes.

[James Munton]

Yes, I have a wonderful method. You go out and grab them!

Or you can use beanbags which you toss behind you into the audience. I personally don't like this method, because I prefer to choose my helpers. Also at many of my shows people have drinks in their hands. I encourage people to drink. The more they drink, the better my act seems.

But as I mentioned before, Fogel's advice is great for hypnosis shows, but completely useless for a magic show. Once again, you are guilty of passing on poor advice. I'm beginning to think you are doing it on purpose.

James

[Mark.Lewis]

The beanbag idea is exceedingly stupid and is on a par with my choo choo train trick which you have had the audacity to give another name to.

As for "grabbing people" this is something that a British gentleman should never do. Terribly American. I rather think you have been in Texas too long. Besides you should never leave the stage to go into the audience if it can possibly be helped.You lose attention that way.

I have seen Ricky Dunn use this method but it worked with him since it gave him a chance to steal their belongins as he does so. I do remember he had fast music going on while he did this.

Both the beanbag method and this disgraceful "grabbing" of people takes far too long anyway.

The Fogel method is the best. If it works with a full stage of 10 people with a hypnosis show then it works even better when only 3 or 4 people are needed. That should be obvious since it is far easier to get 4 people up than it is 10 people. If the Fogel method (really an attitude rather than a method) works for 10 it will work even better for 4.

I do pseudo psychometry with 6 people all the time. If you think I have time to go "grabbing" people you really have a lot to learn as Jonathon implied. I just ask for the volunteers in a polite manner and up they come. If I went out and grabbed people they would think stooges were used.

Besides you said you wouldn't interrupt the class. Go and stand in the corner immediately.

[Mark.Lewis]

Mr. Lewis,

We appreciate you taking time out of your very busy schedule to answer such questions. I thank you in advance.

1. Besides Randy Wakeman, David Acer and Paul Harris, who do you think are the funniest and best comedy close up magic guys?

2. Richard Osterlind finally broke his 3 weeks of silence and released another DVD series - this time on 13 Steps To Mentalism. How awesome is that for mentalists?

3. Marshall Brodein also used to pitch the Svengali deck. I believe it was advertised as TV Magic Cards. Was this an inspiration for you to follow in his footsteps?

4. What is Theory 11?

5. When you hand out your business card, do you do something magical with the card like show it blank on both sides, magically print it and then give it to the client, or do you think magicians that do that should be punched in the face?

SW

I see that I have only answered the first of Walter's questions. I suppose I had better attend to the rest. Let me think about them. I shall however dispose of question four since that is the easiest to answer.

I haven't the slightest idea what theory 11 is and neither do I care.

[Matt Colman]

Can you answer yourself a question on my behalf, so I don't go on a huff because you didn't answer my original question?

[James Munton]

Well I am sick and tired of having perfectly good posts deleted.
This place seems worse than The Magic Crap.

And I am taking back my kind offer to send Mark a free copy of my Very Expensive Marketing Course that will be released in January. If anyone else would like to receive the advance review copy that was intended for Mark, please email me at orders@magicsells.com and tell me why you deserve it.

Best,
James

[Jolly Roger]

Well I am sick and tired of having perfectly good posts deleted.
This place seems worse than The Magic Crap.

And I am taking back my kind offer to send Mark a free copy of my Very Expensive Marketing Course that will be released in January. If anyone else would like to receive the advance review copy that was intended for Mark, please email me at orders@magicsells.com and tell me why you deserve it.

Best,
James

I believe I deserve a free copy of your very expensive marketing course, as I am British like you used to be, and I feel that is a good enough reason. I am also related to the Queen of England, and she would approve of me having a copy. It will also annoy Mark intensly. In return, I shall give you a set of my cheap lecture notes for the Kapital Kidvention, which I really must start writing! JR

[Mark.Lewis]

If Matt is still in a huff because I didn't answer his original question about a good story then all he has to do is to go to the "drawing a crowd" thread where I am gossiping to Harry Lorayne about Al Koran. There is a good story about Koran there.

And if he has another question I will answer that too.

As for Munton I have no idea why he is getting irritated with me just because his posts have been deleted. I didn't delete them so he shouldn't renege on his promise to send me his marketing course. He should instead tell Richard that he isn't going to be receiving it. Not that he wants it anyway. And I don't blame him.

My posts get deleted all the time so I don't know what Munton is moaning about. And James. How many posts were deleted and what were they about anyway?

I just wrote out a long answer to Walter's other questions and the bloody thing disappeared into cyberspace. So my post got deleted even before I posted it.

Beat that James.

[Jolly Roger]

The beanbag idea is exceedingly stupid and is on a par with my choo choo train trick which you have had the audacity to give another name to.

I am confused. I thought you liked the choo choo train! JR

[James Munton]

Roger,

Nobody likes the Choo Choo Train Wreck. Not even Mark.

James

[Jolly Roger]

Roger,

Nobody likes the Choo Choo Train Wreck. Not even Mark.

James

If I admit that I don't like the choo choo train(wreck), and that I love your bean bag idea, does that entitle me to a free copy of your very expensive marketing course? JR

[Mark.Lewis]

I DO like the choo choo train trick even if nobody else does. The Genii forum obviously doesn't like it either because I see that both threads dealing with it have been locked.

I think it is a perfectly valid idea for children's entertainers and Len Belcher and Edwin Hooper agreed with me. And so did Roger before greed overtook him and he sacrificed principle just to get a copy of Munton's expensive marking course which doesn't even exist yet.

In fact I am going to do in my next kid show even though I haven't performed it for about 30 years. I shall report on the results.

[James Munton]

Roger,

In the post that was deleted I explained that I don't like the bean bag idea either and do not use it, but it is at least better than just standing there like a lemon hoping people will come up. Fogel's method works for hypnosis shows, but is useless for magic shows. I also commented that six people are too many to have on stage at once.

James

[Richard Kaufman]

I keep trying to clean up this thread, but Munton and Lewis are posting faster than I can keep up with them.

[Mark.Lewis]

We have a lot of time on our hands.

[Mark.Lewis]

I suggest that Richard appoints me and James to be moderators of the Genii forum. It will save him a lot of work.

[James Munton]

You are welcome to do the job by yourself. I actually do have stuff to do. I sent out the first of my Blue & Gold emails yesterday and have been busy dealing with the calls all morning.

This will of course be explained in my Horrendously Expensive Marketing Course that Mark Lewis will never receive... but Roger will.

[Jonathan Townsend]

Would the "Horrendously Expensive Marketing Course" be a deluxe edition of the "very expensive marketing course" mentioned earlier?

[Mark.Lewis]

I am going to ignore Munton and post something constructive.

This is relevant to the discussion about audience volunteers. I am quite impressed by the advice given long ago by the great David Bamberg (Fu Manchu) concerning this matter. Bamberg thought that you can have too much of this. He advocated keeping audience participation to a minumum. He did a full evening show and he believed once in the first half and once in the second half was quite sufficient. I think he had a point and this can be adapted for smaller shows. Magicians can overdo the "volunteer from the audience" thing and I try to minimise it myself nowadays. One trick in a say, twenty minute act is quite sufficient.

A mentalist would probably need more but even here it is good to do a few things with people in the audience before bringing them up onto the stage.

Glenn asked a sensible question as to the best way of getting people up. Strangely enough it would also have been a good question if he had asked how to keep them in the audience as much as possible!

[Matt Colman]

Well I am sick and tired of having perfectly good posts deleted.
This place seems worse than The Magic Crap.

And I am taking back my kind offer to send Mark a free copy of my Very Expensive Marketing Course that will be released in January. If anyone else would like to receive the advance review copy that was intended for Mark, please email me at orders@magicsells.com and tell me why you deserve it.

Best,
James

Too Lazy to Email, sorry - I don't deserve it, just interested to see if you really know what your talking about ;) I'm always dubious is the same marketing techniques work in the U.K as they do in the U.S, since you are originally a Brit (Mark told me to remind you) I would not only like a free copy of your very expensive marketing book, but I would also like a free copy of your hideously ridiculously expensive marketing book. Please.

[James Munton]

Matt,

You are obviously a typically lazy Brit. This is actually very good, because I am lazy too. Lazy people tend to look for short-cuts which is why my Stunningly Expensive Marketing Course will be so good.

The actual title will be "Zero to Booked Solid in 30 Days" and will describe how I moved from Washington, DC to Dallas, TX and within 30 days had a schedule that was so full, I was referring shows to other magicians who had been living here for 20 years!

It will be broken down into daily chunks so even someone like you who is too lazy to send an email will find it easy to follow and more importantly take action to book lots more shows.

There will be some parts which are more relevant to Americans, but most of it will be applicable to you. For example, I am sure you will quickly figure out that the section on how to establish amazingly profitable relationships with country clubs is all about golf clubs.

I will be happy to consider your application for Mark's copy of the Insanely Expensive Marketing Course. I will announce the winner in due course.

Best,
James

[Mark.Lewis]

For someone who allegedly makes so much money from doing shows I have noticed that Munton has an awful lot of time on his hands and seems able to spend half his day on the Genii Forum instead of doing shows.

Not that I am a cynical type of course but I have always wondered why all the people who allegedly make so much money doing shows feel the need to make more money telling other people how to do it. It does make one suspicious that they aren't getting any work themselves and need the money they generate from telling other people how to do what they are not able to do themselves.

I don't think this is necessarily the case with James but I think he should do something constructive with his time here instead of ruining this thread which I set up to advise those who want advising.

I suggest he chatter about marketing on another thread and let people see if he knows what he is talking about. I am quite happy to admit that I know very little about marketing so I cannot chatter about it. It is perfectly evident that James knows nothing about magic so I suggest he talks about marketing instead. If it seems as if he knows what he is talking about then people will purchase his very expensive marketing course.
Call it free samples.

He can start by explaining what he means by "blue and gold e-mails" However I suggest he does it on another thread. He is becoming a nuisance here and I can't get to other people who prefer their knowledge to come from someone who knows what they are talking about.

[Mark.Lewis]

To continue with this chattering about how to get people up on stage Glenn correctly stated that it is relatively simple to get children on stage and of course he is absolutely right. They will show no reluctance whatever about coming on stage and your main problem is getting the whole bloody audience up when you only want one child.

Since many of you here will be interested in children's entertainment I had better advise on the best way to get the volunteers. Hopefully I can do this without interruptions which are not fair on those who wish to avail of my knowledge before I drop dead.

First, let me start with getting the kid up in the first place. I am sure you all know not to ask for a volunteer to come up otherwise you will be swamped by the little bastards.
This is how I do it. I say, I need someone to help me do some magic. I only pick the ones who are sitting up the best. Arms folded (demonstrate), sitting up straight!
The kids in unison will all sit up straight with arms folded hoping to be picked.
You now say Oh dear, you are all sitting up the best. I dont know who to choose! I know! Lets see who is sitting up better than best!
The kids will now sit up even straighter. It is very funny to see and all the adults in the audience get quite a kick out of it. However you continue Oh dear, you are all sitting up better than best! I know! Lets see who is sitting up better than bestest!
The kids will now almost break their spines sitting up better than bestest with their arms folded. It is quite a sight.
You continue Oh dear! You are all sitting up better than bestest! I dont know who to choose. I know what Ill do! I need somebody very clever to help me. The first person to put up their hand who is very clever can help me.
Naturally all the hands go up but you look away for a second as if distracted then look back and say, Oh. Sorry. I didnt see who was first. Let me try again. The first one to put their hand up that is very, very, very clever can help me. You draw out the very, very, very bit so there is a great pause between the veries the kids hands will shoot up very quickly from the very first very. However you still look away for a second then look back and say, Sorry, I didnt see who was first. The first one to put up their hand who is very-very- very - very- very - very By this time the kids will be going berserk putting up their hands almost from the second you open your mouth. However you still look away but you can see the kids with their hands up out of the corner of your eye. After the last very you look at them and say the word silly! This catches them by surprise and gets a big laugh because their hands are still up. They rapidly take them down.
You continue, Who is the silliest boy or girl here? It is very funny because all the kids will shout out, I am the silliest, pick me! The spectacle of them all claiming to be the silliest is very funny indeed to any adults that are watching. Finally you say, This boy here seems to be the silliest so I will pick him.
You then have your volunteer.
This sequence is very funny and I recommend it.

[Mark.Lewis]

Incidentally I do agree that 6 people is rather a lot to get on stage. However there are exceptions and Pseudo Psychometry is one of them. I do this using 6 people and it is one of the strongest things I do. The six people fill the stage and this is not an easy thing to do with mentalism.

I ask politely for volunteers and they all come up within 30 seconds at most. I never stand there like a lemon. The Fogel technique makes sure of that.

[James Munton]

As for this bloody marketing course, it is indeed a royal pain. After I agreed to lecture at the Kidvention I realized I needed something to sell so I started telling people about this marketing course that I have written yet.

And I really should spend more time working on it instead of posting here - especially since my posts end up getting deleted anyway.

Tomorrow morning I have a library showcase and shows in the afternoon and evening, so you'll have some time to catch up on your sleep tomorrow. I've never marketed to libraries before, but last year I discovered the ones in Texas actually have a decent budget. Plus, I'm hoping to put Todd McKinney out of business.

James

[James Munton]

Your advice about kids is very good Mark. Too good to give away here actually. Perhaps Richard could delete it.

[Mark.Lewis]

The idea that I have a hold over Richard Kaufmann who has banned me more times than he has had hot dinners is quite laughable. I am amazed he hasn't banned you yet. I bet he has been sorely tempted.

The reason that he doesn't like you criticising me is that inevitable I will answer you back despite the fact that he has advised me to ignore impertinent people. And if I answer you back the whole bloody thread disintegrates.

[Mark.Lewis]

I was thinking as I typed it that the kid show stuff shouldn't be given away. I probably should delete the whole bloody thing. However a strange thing happens when you get older. You don't want the information going to waste before you drop dead.

[James Munton]

But through our impassioned dialogue we enlighten the masses! You are Socrates to my Plato.

I suppose you do know which one ends up drinking the hemlock?

[Mark.Lewis]

I am in Canada where we are very civilized so I will end up drinking the hemlock. You on the other hand live in America where they are not so civilised. You will probably get shot and well will you deserve it.