Scott Guinn's DVD

[Guest]

I was very pleased with your honest review of this product. I was one of the people who preordered the DVD to help Mr. Guinn having it published because I believed the great hype about his creations that circulates on the Magic Cafe Forum. Of course I was aware that the enthusiasm might be biased given the fact that he is one of the Staff members there.

Well, I was appalled when I read on that forum that people (no, I won't call them magicians) where harassing a member through PERSONAL emails and messages because of his criticisms about the DVD. He basically said that some of the reworkings of previous effects weren't that great and that the material was not earth-shattering but I dind't feel like posting because of those reactions.

I just wanted to point out something that I feel strongly about. I think that the bad opinion some people have of magic and magicians comes out of all those 'supposed to be funny' puns and worthless jokes that plague this community. I have often seen magicians that don't recognize the look of pity in the eyes of the spectator that sees him as immature and childish. I am not talking, obviously, about comedy magic by talented performers (Sankey, McComb, Lovell among many others) or about some degree of humor into a routine (Regal does that beautifully).

Getting back to Guinn's DVD I was struck by the amount of old, pointless jokes that are simply NOT FUNNY! They just are very unnerving to me and in my opinion also to the audience in the DVD. They detract from the magic that, even if not extremely original, is by itself generally of good quality (I really liked the Twisting routine and I will likely start using). So, I am not saying that the DVD is not worth your money (even though as stated in Genii, it depends from your skill), it's just that this kind of 'supposed to be funny' interludes are in my opinion what may turn a good magician into a bad comedian in the eyes of the audience, thus harming magic as a whole. And that to me is a great danger. Let me state again that this is not a personal attack on Mr. Guinn as a magician or as a person. I will keep the DVD in my collection and I will probably use at least one of his effects. This is meant as constructing criticism, which there is not enough of in our field (most effects are reviewed in some magazines as either Recommended or Highly Recommended), and as a basis for discussion.

Thanks for reading.

[Andy Hurst]

What did you expect from a Guinn DVD? Usable material? Original routines?

I am frankly amazed anyone would spend money on it.

[Guest]

I am curious though. I have never seen him work.
Is he a good performer?
Put aside the material for a moment. How good is he? I have often wondered because of the nature of his postings.
I do know he is a professional magician so presumably has some ability.
Anybody know?

[Guest]

Well as stated in my post judging from the DVD I wasan't very impressed. In particular some of the ditching was quite obvious, but I may be biased being a magician. Maybe it wouldn't be that obvious to a layman. I have never seen him live though.

[Guest]

Well,

to quote Doomo on his review of Guinn's previous books..

You can spot a Scott Guinn book from a mile away. Look for a comb bound book with potentially the ugliest cover you will ever see (Except on another Scott Guinn book ) and you will have found your prey. The problem comes when we open the book. As Scott himself says, there is nothing very new in his books.

This is when he was still trying to be nice in his reviews...his upcoming review of the Guinn DVD will not be as kind...

Just because someone works for money doesn't mean they are entertaining...it just means they get paid.

And there is nothing wrong with corn...ask Mac King..his act is pure corn at times, but perfectly prepared and served..Guinn's corn is just the old canned variety...

Rosie

[Guest]

I freely admit that my magic is not innovative or "cutting edge." It is not "magician's magic." It is what works for me in paying shows for laymen. That doesn't mean it will work for you.

I stand behind my products, and I certainly do not want anyone to feel ripped off, so if you think the DVD sucks, send it to me, in the case and in new condition, working properly, and I will refund your money.

[Steve V]

No one better delete Scotts post dang it, dis ain't one of those censor sites!
Steve V <---freedom fighter

[Guest]

I do not know Scott personally, and I've never seen him perform. But I do know this: he is the creator of one of the all-time best walk-around openers when small children are involved. The parents love the magic, the child is immediately hooked as the performer's friend.

Not to say that negative reviews are out of place -- they can, indeed, be constructive on occasion. I only hope that those willing to post negative reviews for Scott's DVD are equally willing to provide honest feedback for the material due to "bigger names"... ;)

regards, Doug

[Guest]

I was fairly interested to read this thread as I had posted a review of the Great Scott its magic DVD on one of the other smaller online magic forums (TalkMagic).

First I should explain that my perspective is that of someone relatively new to magic and so I readily admit that I dont yet have the skills that some of you guys have but I am fascinated by magic and am actively reading as much as I can and watching as many DVDs as I can afford to buy and of course practicing as often as possible.

My initial reaction to this DVD was a slight disappointment, after all most of the DVDs I watch are from L&L publishing, and this certainly didnt reach their levels of production but after watching it a few times my opinions changed.

In saying that these are excerpts from my review.

I must admit when I originally bought this DVD it was purely for the bonus ring and rope routine which I had heard so much about, and so for me the other 10 very strong tricks are the real bonus.

This was the first time I had seen Scott Guinn perform and I must confess I was extremely impressed. I just love his sense of humour, his magic style and of course his skill as a magician. He comes across as a kind of Bill Murray of the magic world. Maybe not every ones cup of tea, but I found him to be very entertaining and after all that is (IMO) one of the main criteria for being a great magician. I think I learnt as much about performance from this DVD as I did new tricks.

Scott did most of the performance around the dining room table, with 4 spectators, one of which I believe was his wife, who has probably heard his jokes, and seen his tricks a thousand times before. Consequently the four took a little while to get warmed up properly. In fact at the beginning they positively looked bored. In fact I swear at one point on the DVD there is someone yawning. Now most of the magic DVDs I have been privileged to watch so far are from the L&L publishing team, and anyone who has seen any of their work will know what I mean when I say that their audiences are all very happy-clappy-woo-hooing-high-fivinging-jawdropping-magic-loving-junkies to the extreme (and I do mean that in a nice way). I couldnt help but wonder how much difference it would have made if they had been watching Scotts performance. However, in saying that Scotts four did warm up as he went on, and there were some really genuinely astonished faces at various points, especially from the lovely "Giselle".

I am never quite sure if "genuine" could be used to describe the L&L bunch.

The only single real criticism I have about this DVD is that in some of the explanations the camera is just too far away, or not quite at the right angle. The Ring and Rope routine was fine, extremely well explained, repeated from different angles at different speeds but I found some of the card sleights a little confusing and in fact downright difficult to catch, and I know that I will need to watch and watch and watch again before I get them all. In saying that, that could just be me as I still have much to learn when it comes to the card magic, but then after all, thats one of the reasons I buy these DVDs in the first place.

Now the fact that I enjoyed his sense of humour and that Mr. Tarchini didnt obviously influenced our comments a great deal and that is fully understandable and just our own personally impressions. I will also point out that Mr. Tarchini has much more experience than myself in performing magic and so perhaps he should have the strongest voice in this, however

I would have thought that any magician who has been practicing magic professionally for the time that Scott Guinn has, that that magician would know fairly accurately what works for him and what doesn't.

Rosie mentioned,

Just because someone works for money doesn't mean they are entertaining...it just means they get paid

I think this is true but only to a certain extent. I think if a magician wasnt entertaining then they really wouldnt be working for very long.

My final comments in the review were as follows.

Scott has a great talent for seeing a trick and adapting it to his own style and presentation, and I think this is one of the strongest lessons to learn from this DVD.

It is all to easy to learn tricks and the patter from books and DVDs almost word for word, but watching Scott helped me to realise that we all need to develop our own style and patter. We all need to adapt any new trick to work for us.

Most will already have grasped that simple sentiment but I am still learning and its DVDs like this that help with the important details like that.

I also like that Scott gave proper credit on each trick to the originators although this is generally the norm on all the DVDs I have seen it is not always the case. Personally feel it is important and I always like to see it done.

I know that this DVD is not necessarily aimed at beginners but I really think that magicians of all standards would get a lot from it. I certainly will, and I class myself very much as a beginner still.

Anyone wanting to read the full review can find it here.
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2071

Scott very kindly responded to some of the more negative points I made in the review with specific regard to lack of audience enthusiasm and the camera positioning.

I hope this offers at the very least an alternative perspective from someone although less skilled in magic, possibly nearer the layman end of the spectrum. :)

Simon

[Jeff Eline]

Here is what seems to be a very balanced and fair review of the DVD by David Acer on MyLovelyAssistant.com

[Guest]

I'll not comment on the DVD itself (heck, Scott made fun of me on it!)--some will like it, some won't, but I can address the matter of how audiences respond to him.

The first time I met Scott was over lunch at a family restaurant (aside: Scott brought along copies of a couple of his books and gave them to me, even though he knew almost nothing about me at that point). We hadn't been there long when a customer who was walking past on his way out recognized Scott and stopped to tell me what a great magician Scott is. I've also seen him perform his stand up show and witnessed the reactions firsthand. Magicians may not list Scott among the all-time greats, but his audiences sure enjoy the shows and that's where it counts.

[Marty]

I don't know Scott and haven't seen any of his work...ever ... but after witnessing his comments on "the other board" I have consummate respect for his practical thinking and his most practical advice.....He in my mind knows what he is talking about ..the examples are just too easy to cite.....
corny lines aside it's how one relates to the audience in total and I bet he sure does.

Marty Shapiro
Greenville,SC
"where sleight-of-hand doesn't ex

[Guest]

I do know he sent me some rather impertinent e-mails and had the nerve to quote the bible to ME, a psychic reverend of all people.

Still, at least there was no profanity. I have had a few e-mails from a certain awful person called Kaufmann with some very bad words in them.
He didn't mention the holy book even once.

Talking about the holy book, I don't think I have mentioned that I sell a book that explains the greatest svengali routine of all time.

Go to my website and all will be revealed. There is even a video clip there on the trade show page.
On the "for magicians only" page there are wondrous quotes from various people and a pay pal site where you can all send me copious amounts of money.

OK. You can go back to talking about this Guinn fellow's book. I have no idea why you would want to of course. I would have thought a book about the svengali deck would be far more worthwhile.
I don't mention the bible even once in it.

Mark Lewis
www.marklewisentertainment.com

[Guest]

Mark, I thought we made up! In fact, your last email to me read in part: "Well, you have certainly taken the wind out of my sails with your classy and gentlemanly reply..."

At any rate, I have heard wonderful things about your Svengali book, and plan to get it myself at some point.

I have no problem with someone not liking my DVD or my style of performance. As long as people recognize the difference between a criticism of the item and an attack on me as a person, I am happy to address, discuss and listen to their criticism.

The production values on this DVD were not what I hoped--not nearly enough close ups especially stands out as something I would improve. The audience was smaller and more reserved than I would have liked, but they still enjoyed the show and were friendly. My wife was the one I never addressed--I had never met the other three until 10 minutes before we started shooting. They'd never been in a magic video and Greg didn't know Vic and Giselle. They were all (understandably) feeling a little awkward and self-conscious. The ring and rope routine was performed for a lay audience of about 20 people. They were a little more comfortable because they all knew each other better and there were more of them.

However, the effects around the table were, after all, close up effects. While I enjoy the L&L videos and the rowdy audiences, a group of 30 people isn't really a "close up show." Four people around a table at a restaurant is.

Is this the best DVD ever? Certainly not--not even in the running. Does it contain solid material that plays in the real world? Yes it does, at least for me. Your mileage may vary.

Here are some other reviews of the DVD, the first by Jim Sisti, whom I've never met, and the second by Shane Causer. I've also not met Shane, but in the interests of full disclosure, I do write a column for his e-zine, so he may well be a bit biased.

http://allmagic.com/spin/spins/guinnmagic.html

http://www.online-visions.com/reviews/0 ... ttdvd.html

[Guest]

I have heard of this Sisti Personage.
A Mr.Jeffrey Busby has described him to me in great and wondrous detail.

I do believe I may have had contact with him at one point. Some chap who nervously riffles cards all the time, I believe.

Like you he also promised to buy my literary masterpiece but I haven't seen a shilling out of him yet,either.

I shall go and look at his review of your book but shall do so with great scepticism. I have heard tell that on that prison camp you have a hand in running someone mentioned that Sisti believes that in a trade show you should frame the trick around the company rather than the company around the trick.

This of course is utter twaddle and makes me doubt his judgement in things magical. I may be wrong so I shall consult Mr.Busby for a completely unbiased and objective assessment of the matter.

Still, I shall go to his review posthaste.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Bananafish:


Rosie mentioned,

Just because someone works for money doesn't mean they are entertaining...it just means they get paid

I think this is true but only to a certain extent. I think if a magician wasnt entertaining then they really wouldnt be working for very long.

[/QB]

Well..there are several acts I have seen at conventions that I was SURE that would apply to. Unfortunately, I see them on other lineups..and will most likely continue to for years. It's not like the public can go to a website and get a review of the preformer by a knowledgable expert..unlike other consumer goods...

The fact they go out and push themsleves on the unsuspecting public is usually a key factor of their success. And just because they come across as a nice person in the pre-performance interview can count for a lot too..just because you "seem like a nice person" doesn't mean you are a good performer. A lot of the dull people I know are nice people.

When it comes to hiring a magician, or any other performer for that matter, how can the average customer tell what to look for? Most likely they have never had to do it before...(kinda like hiring a DJ for your wedding...if your lucky..you'll only have to do it once...if you're unlucky- maybe more)

Being un-entertaining doesn't mean you can't have a career in magic...it just means you need to keep plugging away and always show up on time.

Rosie

[DanV]

I think if a magician wasnt entertaining then they really wouldnt be working for very long.

]

I disagree. I think you're assuming that a full-time pro must always be entertaining and wonderful. I used to live in a small Florida town (15,000 residents), home to an awful magician. Yet, he always seemed to find the odd gig once or twice a month.

I think the real issue is, how many so-called "full-time" pro's have their careers subsidized by their working spouses? I'm sure we've all seen more than one of these magicians. The real test is, could the magician support their lifestyle soley on their performance income?

Don't tell me that you work (heck, the teenager at McDonald's works), tell me that you work ALL THE TIME, or even better, give me your income range ;) .

BTW, this isn't aimed at Guinn, but since the thread seems to have drifted I thought I'd add my own pet peeve.

[Guest]

The funny thing is that there is a lot of truth in what Rosie said.
Not only Rosie but Fitzkee said exactly the same thing. He basically said the argument that you must be good because you are working was fallacious.
All it meant was that you were working.
I recall he said that you may be working because of many reasons. You may be good at publicity, you may be good at marketing, you may have family influence, you may be good at connecting with people. Social animal and that sort of thing.Or perhaps you work cheap.

Or perhaps your face fits. In fact an MC who booked acts told me that once. He said he didn't necessarily book on the basis of talent. He booked if he liked the guy and his face fitted.

A famous Scandinavian magician named Torino told me the same thing years and years ago. You don't always get booked on the basis of talent alone.

Having said all this I do believe that a good act
is the strongest marketing tool you can have. It may not be enough but it certainly helps. I think there is also a lot of truth in what Bananafish says too. The funny thing is that both he and Rosie are right to a certain extent.

You tend not to last too long if you have no talent. It certainly makes it more difficult.
However, Fitzkee is correct. You can certainly get away with it for a long time even without talent. Not for ever, I don't think-but a long time.

Actually someone with a so-so act (not too bad and not too good-tolerable we shall say) can get by very well if they are good at marketing and they have some of the other attributes mentioned.

Still, the best way is to be good. There really is no substitute for talent.

[Guest]

While I appreciate that Dan said his comments weren't aimed at me, clearly some of the others' were. I debated whether to address this at all. If I say something, I will likely be accused of being a defensive prima donna. If I say nothing, some will say that the accusations must be true or I would have responded. In the end, you're going to think of me what you will, regardless of what I say, and there's likely nothing I can do to change that.

All I can tell you is that I don't work magic conventions (I did one convention once), I work restaurants and corporate banquet gigs. I do several hundred shows per year. I am not a millionaire. I make between $350-$750 per show, depending on the size of the audience and the length of the show. I perform primarily in Idaho, Oregon, Washington and Nevada. About 80% of my shows are either repeat bookings or referrals. When I started, I did quite a bit of marketing, but now I have a yellow pages ad and that's about it. Mr. Lewis is right--although he will tell you that he doesn't need me to tell him he is right--your show is your best marketing tool.

So, in my defense, I do an average of about 275 shows per year not counting restaurant gigs, and about 225 of those are from repeats or referrals. magic is my only source of income, and has been for over a decade.

So, while it is clear that some of you don't care for my style or my material or both (and I certainly would not disagree with your right to say so), my style and material work for me in the market where I perform, and that is what matters most to me.

[Guest]

I suspect that Mr.Guinn has a rough idea of what he is doing.
The bit that has convinced me is that he only has a Yellow Pages advertisement.
I usually find that the less marketing the magician does the better they usually are.
If people are constantly talking about "marketing" that is usually a sign that they are incompetent and that they are hoping the "marketing" will get them out of trouble.

Conversely if they are doing little marketing it is often a sign that they are indeed getting a lot of word of mouth and repeat bookings. This may not necessarily mean that they are any good either but it does tend to be a good sign.

I have never seen the fellow work and I am not sure I want to. I get visions of him quoting the bible every time he produces a sponge ball. Still, I admit to curiousity.
I have no idea what a DVD is but I presume it is some kind of video. The "ditching" problem may be just a technical thing. Magicians often find it difficult to deceive cameras. Not everyone has the genius of Mark Lewis so I think we can give Scott some leeway on this. Providing he deceives his audiences this is all that matters.

The "old worthless jokes" are another matter entirely. It does sound ominous, I grant you.

Still, I have not seen him work and will reserve judgement until I do.

Anyway, isn't this an instructional tape of some kind? It is supposed to be instructional, not entertaining. If people learn something from it then he has done what he was supposed to do. Teach.
If you want entertainment go and see him work. If you want to learn then study the thing and stop worrying about how crap he is or isn't.
He is not there to entertain you. He is there to teach you.

[Guest]

You know, if you can make it in Boise can the bright lights of Spokane be far off?
Steve V <---From Eastern Washington, likely will NEVER return

[Guest]

Let's take this back on the main topic I wanted to discuss, it is not about Mr. Guinn being good or not. He is getting work and he has some good effects on the DVD, that's enough for me to say he is a good and successful performer in his area.
As I said my main concern with the DVD was with the jokes and puns. I fear that this kind of patter sells the idea that magic is all corny and that's it. Believe me, many people unfortunately already think so. Just today a new coworker of mine, when I told her I was a magician and I would do a stage show for them later this year, she answered 'That's corny'. You will have a difficult time explaining that you view magic as art then! And then she is an extremely smart young woman, why would she say that? People have a very low esteem of magic and magicians, where those that come from? I think that the intellect of too many audiences has been insulted. (I am not talking about Mr. Guinn here, he is not doing that. I am talking about other magic acts I have seen).

Getting back to the jokes, I just don't see why a performer would, right in the middle of the trick tell the joke about the magician and the pizza, the magician not feeding a family. Are we selling the image of the magician as the loser, as the underachiever that spent his whole life in the basement, while 'normal' people lived their life?
Or do we want the public to know that there is more to magic than colorful, cheap-looking props, worthless jokes, and so on...?
Do we want to aspire to something better?

I don't mean to suggest that everybody should aim for a classy, refined look to their magic. As pointed out by me and by Rosie there are extremely talented performers that are somehow corny, but then their whole act is geared toward the audience accepting and digesting that fact, and ultimately enjoying that kind of magic.

As stated before I also want to make clear that I am not saying that Mr. Guinn is a bad magician. I don't think I would even be qualified, after all he's doing 250 shows a year and I am only a part-time pro, doing a fraction of that. Everybody has his own style but I just wonder what you think of those puns and jokes regarding their effect on audiences and ultimately on magic and magicians as a whole.

Thanks.

[Guest]

This is a very interesting comment about it not being a good thing to comment upon the poverty of magicians.

Fully 90 years ago stuffy old Maskelyne was waxing irritable about the same matter in the brilliant "Our Magic"

He thought that it was very inartistic to make these kind of remarks and he got in quite a huff about it.

In my capacity as a Psychic Reverend I have made contact with the spirit world and communicated with Mr.Maskelyne. He is highly displeased with Mr.Guinn.

[Guest]

I have Guinn's dvd and I enjoyed his magic and his "corny" humor. It's sure beats the "withit" humor on sitcom TV. Tom

[DanV]

I'd like to comment, since I actually own this DVD.

I bought it purely because I was interested in Scott's sponge ball routine. I'd heard many positive comments, and thought I'd do Scott the respectful thing of paying him money to see the his routine, rather than try to discern it from the many comments on The Magic Cafe.

I understood beforehand that this routine was unique in its presentation, NOT in its furthering of the "sponge ball routine" field. But still I was disappointed.

Scott's routine relies on puns. PUNS. I don't do puns very well. Crap.

But, he did use the Sanada gimmick to good effect. I use it as well, but not in this context. It got me to thinking. As Psychic says, "Anyway, isn't this an instructional tape of some kind? It is supposed to be instructional, not entertaining." Well, I started to think of OTHER WAYS to use the Sanada gimmick. So Scott got me thinking.

As an aside, I think the true student doesn't look for new "routines" when he examines someone else's material. Instead, he looks for that nuance, that little "thing" that leads to other ideas. And in that respect, Scott did his job.

Do I like Scott's presentation of the effects on the DVD? Overall, no. For the most part, I agree with Acer's review:
My Lovely Assistant Scott's style is not mine (or, indeed, my wife's style. She turned to me while watching the Ring routine and said, "Is it ever going to end?"). His mannerisms get on my nerves. But you know what? I didn't buy the DVD to be entertained. I bought it to get that ONE IDEA that I could use to further my own work. And I got that one idea. Well worth the money I spent.

According to his post, I'm in the minority among his upper-midwest clientele, because he seems to work regularly. And on top of that, he seems to be a nice guy, as evidenced by his recent post on The Magic Cafe regarding this thread. How many creators link both positive AND negative reviews of their product?

To address Giorgio's post, I also found Scott's humor trying. And in the context of his Ring routine, inappropriate. There's one line in this routine that, while not X-rated, certainly isn't appropriate for the children in the audience. But to give Scott credit, apparently this was shot late at night when he was tired.

What's more amazing to me is the negative posts that have appeared here. Not that I have any opinion of them, but I'd wager you'll not see them on The Magic Cafe site. The only guy who tried it got flamed. Which of course means that you'll never turn to the Cafe for realistic reviews of the creations of its staff members. I would've posted a review, but I have a life outside of magic and didn't want to spend my time deleting flames from 15 year-olds.

However, that doesn't discount Scott. Anyone who disbelieves his stature as a "full-time" pro (thanks for knowing that my previous post wasn't directed at you, Scott) need only to read his daily posts to know that Scott surely knows his stuff. For example, he's got a great idea for a portable table for the table hopper.

I only wish he had a great idea for the sponge balls...

To sum up, follow Acer's review...

[DanV]

Whoops, I said "I only wish he had a great idea for the sponge balls..."

Well, he did...the Sanada.

[Guest]

There was a guy who posted a negative review of the DVD on The cafe, and a bunch of people slammed him and sent him nasty emails and PM's. If you read the whole topic there, you will see that I came to his defense and asked people to stop "fighting battles" on my behalf. I welcome criticism--it is what helps one improve, provided it is valid criticism and not just "this guy sucks" etc, which helps no one. Further, no offense, but I immediately dismiss criticism from people who admit they have never even seen the item being discussed...

[Jeff Eline]

I haven't seen Scott's DVD or seen him perform, but I have to say that he has certainly handled the criticism here with class. It's amazingly difficult to produce and distribute a video and then to present it to the public for evaluation.

And as much as you want to convince yourself that the criticism isn't personal, it's only natural that you do because it's you up there on screen.

Whether the criticism is warranted or not, you've handled things with class.

[Bill Mullins]

Originally posted by Dan Villanti:

But, he did use the Sanada gimmick to good effect. I use it as well, but not in this context. .... Well, I started to think of OTHER WAYS to use the Sanada gimmick.

Dan Garrett has some work on the Sanada gimmick, as does Jay Scott Berry -- he's put two of them together with flesh colored tape (I think he calls it a trap door???) The recent Henry Evans videos have a linking rubber band effect using the Sanada gimmick (although he credits the effect to someone else in his current lecture notes).

[DanV]

Thanks Bill. Actually, I started working with Jay Scott Berry's Sanada variation after seeing him in a lecture wherein he showed, amongst other things, some spongeball work. I filed it away in my mind under "color change/vanish", completely ignoring the production factor that Scott uses to great effect.

I'll have to check out Garrett's work and Evan's also...

[Guest]

Originally posted by Psychic:
...I sell a book that explains the greatest svengali routine of all time....

If it was published after 1954, I don't want it.... :D

[Guest]

Part of it was written in 1938. That should confuse some of you.
All of the moves came from before 1954 except one.
However the routine itself comes from Mark Lewis who invented the 1954 rule. Therefore this is an obvious exception to it.

[Guest]

Ah! But I see you are from the same neck of the woods as this Guinn fellow. That means that you know him. You are obviously a friend of his.
I am a master cold reader and know these things.

Of course this means that you are a trifle biased.

Still you are correct about videos.
They are a bloody awful way to learn. You can't go and study it in a park or restaurant. You can't walk about with it as you can with a book.Rewinding is a hell of a lot harder than just turning the page.

But the worst thing is that you can very easily let the performers style distract you. If you don't like it there is a tendency to devalue the teaching and if you do like it there is a tendency to copy which is definitely not a good thing.

A teaching tape is for teaching. It is not for entertaining. It behooves one to learn.

I had a video tape of an Ormond Mc'Gill hypnosis performance. It was a very dead crowd he was working to and the audience response was very muted. Not a great show at all.
It would have been tempting to dismiss the whole thing and say (as I have heard other young whippersnappers say) that old Ormond was plain boring.
I sensed otherwise. I studied and studied it for all the amazing techniques and subtleties. For the "scientific" approach of working. For the hidden secrets of an old master.

I have many tapes of various hypnotic performances. All sorts of razzamatazz. Yet the most valuable tape in my possession is the one of the seemingly slow and boring old codger trying to get some reaction out of a very lukewarm crowd.

The stuff on there is pure gold.

If you are buying a tape for studying purposes try and look beyond the performer and take what
you need and can use. Study is not always entertaining. Remember school?

If you want entertainment go to a movie. If you want to learn, then study. That is the real purpose of the tape.

[tomstrix2003]

I have practiced our great art since about 1950 and currently serve as an elected officer of one of the international magic organizations. While I do not own Scott's DVD, I have purchased other items that he has marketed. Unlike most of the people who have posted messages in this forum, I have seen Scott perform. The first time was a few years ago and more recently was last week when another senior officer and I stopped overnight in Boise on our way to a major council meeting.

Scott had been hired to entertain the employees and spouses of a major state government group who were embarking on their annual convention (+/- 150 people). During his 40-minute performance, Scott's magic and style of humor got excellent response, and he connected very well with his audience (one member was a state senator). In my opinion, the magic and humor were in good balance. Most importantly, the package fit Scott's personality and resulted in solid entertainment for the audience (and isn't this the objective?).

After the performance, several members of the audience gave Scott high praise and many asked for his business card (presumably to hire him for future magic shows). I believe Scott said it earlier: His magic serves his audience and his environment. I also agree that valid criticism helps us all...direct attacks serve no purpose in our magic cummunity.

If we buy books, videos, CDs/DVDs, and other media with the expectation of using the magic and copying the patter verbatim, then we lose our uniqueness and become clones. Who'd want to hire us then?

Tom W.

[Guest]

I'm accually suprised to hear that Scott's dvd got a bad review at all. I must admit that I haven't seen the dvd, but I have seen Scott lecture the material on the dvd and in his books. I found the spongeball routine to be very well thought out and FUNNY! Of course everyone here must realize that not everyone has the same oppinion of what funny is. But obviously everyone at the lecture (being full time profesionals and a few non-pros) found the lecture to be entertaining. And the best part was, the material was accually usable! I for one am sick of reading many magic books that have routines that are just put in so someone can say that they have a new version of something and they want to be known for it. Too many magicians are losing sight of what magic is about, entertaining your audience with magic and humor if that is your style. Scott didn't make that dvd so magicians could find the next hardest thing in magic, he did it so people could use the material when performing and sure enough he succeeded. I must admit that I am a cafe member, but I didn't even realize that scott was a member until I had seen the lecture. Even then I found the material usable, not because he goes to the same website I go to. And if any of you in this forum perform in restaurants (which i'm sure a lot of you do) then you would have found something of Scott's that you like. What I found to be very useful was his Table-Hopper's Friend, a divice used to hang the close up pad off of the edge of the table. This eliminates making customers moving things around, and it allows for everyone to be able to see the magic even on long table. I also found his ideas on approaching tables useful, he eliminated having to approach a table with a funny line or flashy intro. In fact you know exactly what tables want you to perform and there's no awquardness or being turned down. Now I myself must admit that not all of Scott's routines are what every magician would use or find interesting, but there is usable material for the real world and I hope that others haven't lost sight of the real goal towards magic (unless you just do magic as a hobby).

[Steve Hook]

David:

It would be exceedingly useful if you would press the Enter button once in a while and put some spaces in your post!

Also, it is very possible to <not> get anything useful from a DVD. Your statement that you "hope that others haven't lost sight of the real goal towards magic" doesn't even make much sense. :confused:

[Guest]

I will not be misdirected into talking about potatoes.
I happen to know you are a pal of this Guinn fellow. I can sense the Bible emanating from your every word.
So? Is he a friend of yours or isn't he?

With regard to learning how to be entertaining you do NOT do it from a video. The worst place.
If the magician is good (very rarely) you will be tempted to copy him, if the magician is bad you will be tempted to spew up.

Videos are for learning tricks and techniques (in my opinion a very poor method for doing so) and books are where you learn how to be an entertainer.
Yes. Books. There is no substitute for reading. That is where the advice on audience psychology, patter, showmanship and creating a character is. It cannot be explained properly on a video by some incompetent who does not practice what he preaches.

That and working to people and testing out their reactions.

One place you can learn about showmanship is to go and watch a good grafter(pitchman). You will not be able to copy him because he is not doing tricks. He is talking about non stick frying pans.
However, study the way he uses language and pauses in the right places. Study how he smiles and involves the audience. Study how he charms them into parting with their money. Above all, study the fluency of the patter.

You will also learn about deception. Just ask Ian Kendall.

[Guest]

I never said it wasn't possible to not get anything out of a dvd. But that of course doesn't make it a bad dvd. I have a few books and videos that I have got absolutly nothing out of. But I didn't complain about it and I certainly wouldn't insult the performer for it as it wasn't his fault that he couldn't please everyone.

I appologise for the sp acing errors.



And what was meant by "hope that others haven't lost sight of the real goal towards magic" is that many magicians are caught up in making a big deal because they are dissatisfied over the wierdest things. Crediting, quality, quantity, its not that big of a deal. The whole point of magic is to entertain and have fun but a few of us would rather gossip and complain about others rather than learn magic or put out their own material.

[Ray Banks]

Originally posted by David Ranalli:

And what was meant by "hope that others haven't lost sight of the real goal towards magic" is that many magicians are caught up in making a big deal because they are dissatisfied over the wierdest things. Crediting, quality, quantity, its not that big of a deal. The whole point of magic is to entertain and have fun but a few of us would rather gossip and complain about others rather than learn magic or put out their own material.

What I though you meant was that many magicians today, especially the younger ones, it seems, care more about fooling other magicians than entertaining an audience.

I was quite pleased with a response on another board regarding a packaged effect. The poster wanted to add an additional ending to it using a tricky slieght. Everyone that responded said that the effect was good by itself and don't add to it, especially something that could go wrong and ruin the effect.

I believe that Scott (and I have the DVD and several of his manuscripts) is in the business to entertain and bring some happiness to regular people. I don't know him personally but I get the impression that fooling other magicians is not a high priority in his life, just being a good entertainer.

My $.02

[Randy DiMarco]

Ray Banks said:
"I believe that Scott (and I have the DVD and several of his manuscripts) is in the business to entertain and bring some happiness to regular people."

That is fine but what is the point of releasing a DVD teaching your performance material if it is not original with you.