Steve Freeman

[bagelsandlox]

What became of this talented guy from the Vernon tapes? I wonder if he still has the silhouette Vernon cut of him.

[Richard Kaufman]

Steve doesn't like publicity, and doesn't perform publicly.

[bagelsandlox]

Well, from the tapes you can see how gifted he is.

[James Alan]

Rumour has it he grew a beard for a time in the 90's.

[Pete Biro]

Steve left Kinko's and is working as a CPA on his own. He was at the last history conference and we had a nice chat. Also a great talk with Ricky Jay (we sat together after seeing He Hooker Rising Cards and though how wonderful it was to be totally fooled and witness REAL MAGIC.

[Denis Behr]

Rumour has it he grew a beard for a time in the 90's.

"Rumour"?! Just turn to page 7 in the third volume of the Vernon Chronicles.

Denis

[greg manwaring]

It was a pleasure to get to know Steve during the making of the Revelations book! Those were his hands I illustrated by the way.

[Roger M.]

Richard, how about a one or two page "update" on, or interview with Steve in Genii?

I think a LOT of folks would like to hear from Steve.

COME ON STEVE, we luv ya'!

[Charles Spector]

Why not a "Where are they now" issue of past notables in magic?

[Richard Kaufman]

Because most of them would be dead, ill, retired, bitter, or doing something other than magic.

[Jon Racherbaumer]

Where are they now?

Elsewhere...

Steve F. wrote the only other piece on Arthur Findley, a magician who spent most of his time "elsewhere." The other great "piece" was written by Bill Kalush.

In M-U-M we tried to launch a WHERE ARE THEY NOW section, but after two tries, interest petered out.

I would still like to know what happened to Charlier and Joe (not Henry) Christ.

[Michael Close]

Because most of them would be dead, ill, retired, bitter, or doing something other than magic.

That sounds like my business card.

Close

[Roger M.]

Steve's not dead, not ill, and although he may be bitter, we won't really know until we ask him.

He's in that Diaconis, Jay camp of guys who believe that magicians can't keep secrets and are the worse as a bunch for it.....but we're not asking him to tip anything, just say hello and tell us what he thinks about things after all these years.

He's right nearby for Pete and Dustin to go say hello, and report their findings back through Genii :)

[TheCheerUpodist]

Just joined this Forum within the last hour, had a quick scan at some of the previous topics..heart sinking as I read the pointlessness of the "Jerry Sadowitz" topic comments... nothing to do do with magic...then spirits revitalised by Michael Close's quip re Steve Freeman....Nice one Mike!.... I'm looking forward to helpful, constructive advice and that kind of humour along the way to improving my magic.......Also, for what's it's worth, every time I went into International Magic in London ( my local shop) whenever Jerry was in he was polite, helpful and pointed me into the right direction to discover more of whatever I was curious to learn as a magic novice.....Hope my debut post 2 cents worth is'nt too controversial!....All the Best to all you magical entertainers around the world...Steve (The CheerUpodist)

[Richard Kaufman]

Hey Steve, since you haven't been libelled by Sadowitz, don't chastise me for my comments.

[TheCheerUpodist]

Oops! Sorry Richard, I was'nt having a dig at you personally!....it was more really the "hopkins" fellow in the sadowitz thread that disappointed me for opening up that topic in the first place..Could'nt see the value in it that's all....In retrospect I just should have continued to enjoy the comical responses along with the valuable constructive magical information from the other list of topics/themes I was perusing at the time and maybe not responded at all!.. Anyway, first post and I upset the Boss!... Sorry.....It's a real privilege to have the opportunity to be amongst the guys with the "real secrets" of magic..that is presentational tips and advice from possibly years and years of "entertaining" experience that I will take on board to enhance my (and my own spectators) enjoyment of magic....and I'm looking forward to contributing constructive comment as well....and to Mr.Hopkins, no offense matey, but there's enough people ready to look at magic and magicians disparagingly amongst the lay people without us popping at each other ....Don't concern yourself with the people who bring no pleasure to your life my friend, focus on the one's that do.....All the Best..Steve...

[Dustin Stinett]

About the notion that Steve Freeman might be bitter: My few experiences with him say no way no how. In fact, I think hes a very happy fellow.

Heres an amusingat least to meSteve Freeman story:

We were attending the same event and during one particular presentation, I took a seat in a sparsely populated area in the back. Steve came in and chose a spot in the row in front of me.

About midway through the presentation I felt a light nudge: It was Steve, smiling broadly, waking me up (I was probably snoring), after which he said, I cant wait to read your review of this one.

Dustin

[Richard Kaufman]

Did I imply that Steve Freeman is bitter? I certainly hope not. Whenever I see him, he's usually friendly and in a good mood.

[Dustin Stinett]

No, you did not: No one did. All Roger M. said was, and although he may be bitter [emphasis mine] and that prompted me to comment on my experiences with Steve.

Dustin

(This is sure turning into a Steve day, and Roger, Im not singling you out; I swear it!)

[Roger M.]

I don't feel singled out Dustin, no worries :)

[Pete Biro]

Steve left the employ of Kinkos (he was the CFO) around the Fedex buyout, and is much happier running his own financial business (altho things might be shaky right now???) I hope not.

[Bill Mullins]

Steve left the employ of Kinkos (he was the CFO) around the Fedex buyout, and is much happier running his own financial business (altho things might be shaky right now???) I hope not.

Speaking of shaky things, did the Bear Stearns situation hit Ace Greenberg hard?

[Richard Kaufman]

I read in the New York Times that Alan had sold $50 million dollars worth of Bear stocks about six months earlier.

[D. Andrus]

I think that Roger M. hit the nail on the head when he said Steve Freeman is in the Percy Diaconis and Ricky Jay camp. Here's the thing, these guys stay in their own circle because you would actually be disapointed by watching their work. Now, I am not naive enough to say that these guys are bad at handling cards....that would be nuts. What I am saying is that they are not nearly as good as you think they are. My magic mentor here in Michigan, who was a good friend of Charlie Miller, got to meet these guys and was quite disappointed. This little inner circle keep to themselves to keep their own "legendary", eccentric status intact.

By the way, this is not a lame attempt to flush any of these reclusive guys out of hiding. That is conclusion that they would arrive at if they saw this thread. Believe me, they do not care about us. Why should we care about them?

I am tied of the glorification of people when there isn't any proof. The real deal when it comes to card handling is Steve Forte and I think he could be a reason why these legends never come out to play.

[David Alexander]

I disagree. Certainly, in the case of Ricky Jay who has had numerous public appearances and was quite satisfying in his performance and technical skills. His show is worth the money.

Steve Freeman is someone I know very little, but in the few interactions I've had with him he was both warm and gracious. He was helpful and far from being aloof. I only met Perci when he was a kid, so my brief impression of him then would not apply today.

It should be pointed out that neither Steve nor Perci hold themselves out to be professional magicians. For them, magic appears to be an interesting hobby, but they have other interests and other priorities in their lives. They have the friends in magic that they choose to interact with and that's as it should be. They owe us nothing and have nothing to prove to anyone as their "legendary status" was created by others.

[Chris Aguilar]

I only met Perci when he was a kid, so my brief impression of him then would not apply today.

It should be pointed out that neither Steve nor Perci ...

It's "Persi".

[Kent Gunn]

Chris, thank you! That man deserves his name spelled correctly! If I may toss one more log on this fire . . .

Dr. Diaconis magically appeared at a convention last year. He showed up to visit with one of the lecturers, with whom he'd been grand friends years ago. I got a chance to speak with him.

He was warm, effusive and charming to all the magicians he came in contact with that day. Many pictures were gladly posed, questions answered and you know . . .

There was not a hint of bitterness. Not a shred of acrimony towards magic or anyone involved in magic.

He is regarded, in his field as a freakin' statistics professor at some little-known college in California, as a pretty smart guy too! Perhaps, just maybe, he has a life completely outside of magic that far exceeds what most of us could ever dream of (certainly far more than I can dream of!!!), in terms of acclaim, financial reward and the respect of his peers.

Dr. Diaconis, was especially charming with a few of the younger magicians. He patiently watched their effects, said some very nice things to them. It was really heart-warming to see him, Harry Riser and his wife get to re-acquaint themselves after many long years.

Guys, he's not bitter, he's not cynical, he's not staying in his own camp, hoarding magic secrets.

He simply couldn't care less about what anyone thinks in the magic community. He's over it. You should join him.

Don't make assumptions about people you've never met. For some magic is a life-long avocation, for others, they fade out and simply don't give a damn what we're up to. More power to them!

[Pete Biro]

Having spent a lot of time with Persi, he went over my club act many times suggesting improvements, refining methods, giving me new ideas, etc. etc. He helped craft my signature piece. He also invented almost all of the "legendary" magic marketed by Richrd Himber, including the Himber Ring.

He was more than a professional magician, he was a professional card player !!!! Talk about heat on him (but I can't go into any details).

Ricky Jay and I went to see him do a "demonstration" of his card work for a group of world-reknowned professors of mathamatics at Stanford. What blew us away was his skill AND THE FACT THAT HE DID DOZENS OF EFFECTS WITH PREMISES Ricky and I had never seen.

[El Mystico]

So this again makes me wonder, what is the truth about Persi hanging onto the Henry Christ manuscript? That is the rumour...but it was also a rumour that he withheld stuff from Revelations, and we now know that to be unfounded.

[Jonathan Townsend]

What's with the interest in rumors?

oh... right... misdirection.

[D. Andrus]

What fueled my initial forum message was my friendship with my mentor here in Michigan, who was particulary close to Charlie Miller, and the Ricky Jay article that appeared years ago in the New Yorker. Here's an exerpt:

.....More than any other magician Jay has known, Charlie Miller had an orthodox devotion to preserving the secrets of the art--a fundamental precept that Jay today shares with Diaconis and Freeman. To their dismay, Vernon wrote a series of instruction books. When these began to appear in print, Diaconis said to Vernon, "Why did you publish these, Professor? We don't want the animals using tools."

This is the same article discussed this inner circle's aversion to "magic lumpen--hoi polloi who congregate in magic clubs and at conventions, where they unabashedly seek to expropriate each other's secrets, meanwhile failing to grasp the critical distinction between doing tricks and creating a sense of wonder."

Now, I tend to agree with much of the material in the article. There are plenty of obnoxious, uniformed, rude magicians that inhabit the magic community. I just hope that these self-proclaimed Vernon disciples from the article are not too quick to jump to the conclusion that nothing innovative can take place outside of their inner circle....that they have some top secret move or handling that no one else could figure out on their own, etc...

To put in mathematically for Persi's sake: Not knowing Vernon personally is not equal to animals performing bad magic.

[El Mystico]

I don't know about the accuracy of that article.

But Persi was instrumental in helping get Vernon's Revelations book published. And Freeman was one of the three helping to tease information from Vernon in the Revelations video shoot.

Certainly none of those three has been as visible as people like, say, Ammar, in getting good material to a wide public. But I'd argue both Diaconis and Freeman have contributed to some of the most worthwhile magical projects in the last few years.

[Bill Mullins]

He is regarded, in his field as a freakin' statistics professor at some little-known college in California, as a pretty smart guy too!

Stanford University? "little-known"?? I hope you know more about magic than you do about one of the leading academic universities in the world.

And he's not just a "pretty smart guy" -- he was awarded a MacArthur Fellowship (commonly known as a "genius grant").

[Disparity1]

I think that Roger M. hit the nail on the head when he said Steve Freeman is in the Percy Diaconis and Ricky Jay camp.

Holy Cow! Ricky and Persi have a camp?! Can I still register? Do they have RV parking?

To their dismay, Vernon wrote a series of instruction books. When these began to appear in print, Diaconis said to Vernon, "Why did you publish these, Professor? We don't want the animals using tools."

Vernon wrote a series of instruction books? This is news to me.

Okay, let's say you take the article at face value. Which books, now? The Inner Secrets Trilogy, even though Vernon didn't write them? Or...wait, maybe books like Dai Vernon's Ultimate Secrets of Card Magic, a volume to which Persi himself contributed (isn't that the one? Les Carte Diaconis?). Or perhaps other material, such as his California lecture notes? Early Vernon?

Let's say it's any one of these. So, we're talking...maybe...1960's for the later ones (to make the possible time frame for Persi's alleged comment come out right). Is there any reason to hold someone in such rigid contempt for something he supposedly said, what?, 40 or 50 years ago? Don't we want to ask him, maybe, if he still feels that way, if he ever felt that way at all? Who here has opinions that have escaped being reshapen in the last ten years, let alone 50? Who here doesn't feel he has been molded by the decades and has a more reasonable view than he did when he was 20 or 30?

We've all heard these second-hand stories and rumors, and when you cite them again, they're no more authoritative. Unless you wish to tell us you were there. We'll listen more closely if that's the case.

[Kent Gunn]

Mr. Mullins,

Thanks for pointing that out. Who'd have guessed, Stanford, wow! A MacArthur Fellowship! I also appreciated your insight into the meaning behind the fellowship.

I don't know much about magic either. You must be at the very hub of magical activity in Huntsville, with your high-falutin' knowledge of all things.

Have a nice day.

Clueless in California

[D. Andrus]

Disparity1,

You can find the New Yorker article at the Ricky Jay website (archives section). It was written by Mark Singer. Ricky Jay is certainly lucky to have befriended David Mamet, by the way.

Given the timing of the article, the books I believe that the article was referencing were the Vernon Chronicle Series (obviously, not totally written by Vernon).

I mentioned a mentor here in Michigan where I get information that I consider accurate. He was very close to Charlie Miller at one time. I also hope that you are correct on people actually changing their ways as years pass by.

[Disparity1]

Mr. Andrus,

Thanks. I read the article when it first came out and many times since.

I presume, and with no less strength than you presume the texts referred to were The Vernon Chronicles (not all written by Vernon? Actually, not at all written by Vernon) that your mentor is Ron Bauer. Regardless of whether I'm correct or not and with no disrespect to any parties involved, second and third hand is still just that. Whether or not Persi made the statement, and I'm allowing that he may have, it would only be natural for many of us to judge his character simply based on hearing about it. What's unfair is to take that judgment to a public forum and discuss it as if it were unquestionably true.

I've never met the man, but most of my closer friends in magic have and know him relatively well. I have trouble reconciling some of what they tell me with his public image in magic of the hoarding, secretive curmudgeon. I'd never say some stories aren't true, because I wasn't there to know, but I can suggest with a good measure of confidence that he's more complex than the one-dimensional stories we hear.

Returning to the original subject of this thread for a moment, I have met Steve Freeman on several occasions over the years. He was never anything less than completely gracious and giving. I'm well aware that I only received the smallest tip of a very deep iceberg when sitting with him, and that's okay. If there are things he isn't at liberty to share, it's no big deal. He was always kind and receptive and entirely humble, despite his wonderful abilities.

[castawaydave]

Anyone willing to share stories about seeing Steve Freeman perform?

[Jonathan Townsend]

... Diaconis said to Vernon, "Why did you publish these, Professor? We don't want the animals using tools."
...

That quote, even if apocryphal may well serve as an epitaph to an age in magic where the "how" distracted many from the "why" and the "for who" - a sort of "let them eat cake" reminder of what we can become when we lose respect for others.

[Richard Kaufman]

The quote is true, but it was made in reference to Revelations, not the Vernon Chronicles. Roger Klause was in the room at the time the remark was made and had told the story to several people.