secrets of street magicians revealed

[Kamus]

I thought last night's show was the lowest yet. with exposures of the double lift, the center tear. rising cards and many other secrets dear to the hearts of close-up workers. It's one thing to do exposures of big illusions but this show hurt a lot of people where they live. I know magic will survive and we can hope for poor ratings but I just neede to express my frustration at Fox's bottom feeding lack of respect for magicians and their audiences.
-Dave

[Lisa Cousins]

I look at it this way:

For the past two-and-a-half years, I have studied magic every day. I have read countless explanations of effects and their methods. And the only ones I really remember are the ones I actually learn.

What the viewers get from these shows is a momentary "a-ha" feeling of being an insider, but the actual information is not going to stick. I'm confident that every person who watched the show last night could be completely baffled by an excellent close-up worker today.

[Jim Morton]

That was a rerun. The last time the show was on, it did very poorly, but it was up against the Grammy awards. It was a very weird show. A couple of those effects would only work in a parallel universe. I'd like to see anyone use that watch setting device. For some reason, none of the effects were called by their correct names. I don't know what that was all about.

In the original promos for the show, they showed the guy using an invisible deck, but it is not tipped in the show. Maybe it's on the video tape they were selling. That guy did the worst excuse for a double lift I've ever seen.

Jim

[Guest]

The Fox network showed its true colors with a show like that. Whats next? A show exposing the fact there is no Santa Clause or Easter Bunny? Its pathetic !!!
Why the need to tear down the art of magic? I don't get it. Its really really sad.
People at Fox are the lowest of the low if ya ask me.

[MaxNY]

Hey, did we ever find out who the weasels were?

[Kamus]

Well I agree that a skilled worker will still fool people but it stinks that they aired that show nonetheless. It seemed to be aimed at discediting Blaine and yeah, I thought some of those methods were pretty off the wall- that watch thing-good lord! I got the feeling that whoever the magician responsible was was trying to hedge the exposure a bit by employing some unlikely methods and for that we can be a little grateful- not to say that everyone connected with that show isn't abit below pondscum in the evolutionary scale!

[Jeff Eline]

It was horrible. After it ran the first time, I had a girl (12 or 13 yrs old), watching me and she just kept saying... "You've got two cards, you've got two cards" I started doing single lifts just so I could show her.

I read an article in Entertainment Weekly about the producer. Of all the shows he's produced, he said the ones exposing magic were his favorite. I just don't get it.

Which just makes the segments that ran on CNN a few weeks ago that much more valuable!

[Pete McCabe]

What we really need is a "Secrets of Fake Psychics" special, exposing their methods.

[Ed Oschmann]

Fake Psychics? Now, that's redundant. :confused:

[Kamus]

What CNN segments?

[Guest]

Originally posted by Pete McCabe:
What we really need is a "Secrets of Fake Psychics" special, exposing their methods.

maybe on eof the "Fake Psychics" did that
TV show.
I read in another forum that they hate close up
magicians.

;)

[Guest]

I dunno...

I'm a busker, I'm the guy out on the street bringing a show to people who didn't know they wanted to see one five seconds before they stopped.

I'd let my audience watch that exposure show and then fool them with every trick they just saw exposed.

I'm a magician, that's what I do. In the cups and balls routine I do, I expose the method and then fool them with it, as does every magician who does a variant of the routine published by Vernon.

I could do the same thing with a double/tripple lift.

This isn't to say that I am a fan of these shows, it's just at the end of the day it doesn't affect my bottom line in a negative way.

I think the more attention we give these shows the more likely people are to watch it.

**shrug**

Best,

Dan-

[Jeff Eline]

Originally posted by Dave Kane:
What CNN segments?

A couple of weeks ago, CNN Headlines cable channel feature a number of magicians (Joe Turner, Dan Garrett, Michael Ammar, etc...) for a whole day. They were interviewed and then each performed a few quick effects.

It was very well done with no 'fox' smarmy narrator.

[Matthew Field]

As long as magic communicates that it depends upon "secrets" (as opposed to "methods"), people will be interested in what they feel is being hidden from them.

"In olden days a glimpse of stocking,
Was looked on as something shocking,
Now heaven knows,
Anything goes."

The Fox producer is the same guy who does "World's Most Exciting Car Crashes" and the like. It's all voyeurism, Fox's stock in trade (as "The Simpsons" repeatedly points out in its parodies).

Matt Field

[Guest]

Originally posted by Danny_Hustle:
I dunno...

I'd let my audience watch that exposure show and then fool them with every trick they just saw exposed.

I'm a magician, that's what I do. In the cups and balls routine I do, I expose the method and then fool them with it,
Dan-

and now FOX foll you!!!

but you are right
few days from now and no one remember...
They are all a waste of DNA
Doripaz

[Guest]

In some environmental circles, there's an acronym, NIMBY, which stands for: Not In My Back Yard (referring to dumps, waste disposal, almost anything generally considered unpleasant).

Seems like we've got the same thing in a lot of these posts.

The thinking appears to be: "Fox can expose what he does, but Fox shouldn't expose what I do."

It is to laugh!

So you want to stop Fox from airing those exposures; well, does that mean that, if I get enough people together who agree with me, we can stop Fox from broadcasting something else?
Maybe we don't like how they cover the news; can we stop that?
Or maybe we don't like how the Washington Post covers the news; can we shut them down?

I think the answer to all the above is obvious: NO!

It has something to do with a pesky bit of business called the First Amendment and the U.S. Constitution.

Darn! Those things always get in the way, don't they! 8-(

Let's get real here. If you can't blow an audience away with your own handling of something that Fox has exposed weeks or months before, then maybe you should consider doing something else.

I've done it and other have done it, as a few have pointed out right here.

All it takes is the use of that gray matter (something, I will agree, that Fox hasn't shown an excess use of! <G>)

cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com

[Jim Morton]

In some environmental circles, there's an acronym, NIMBY, which stands for: Not In My Back Yard (referring to dumps, waste disposal, almost anything generally considered unpleasant).

Seems like we've got the same thing in a lot of these posts.

The thinking appears to be: "Fox can expose what he does, but Fox shouldn't expose what I do."

Huh? I'm not reading that in any of these posts, except maybe the one about exposing fake psychics, and even then it's a stretch. Seems to me you're altering the facts to fit what you wanted to say. The trouble with doing that is it effectively negates your entire argument, regardless of its merit.

Most of the posts seem to be saying that exposure is more of a short-term nuisance than a long-term catastrophe. History bears this out. People have been exposing effects since the seventeenth century, but the cups and balls still floors people.

Jim

[Guest]

First post: "It's one thing to do exposures of big illusions but this show hurt a lot of people where they live."
'Nuff sed.

cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com

[Jim Morton]

That's "a lot"?

Jim

[Guest]

"It has something to do with a pesky bit of business called the First Amendment and the U.S. Constitution.

Darn! Those things always get in the way, don't they! 8-( "

What does the U.S. Constitution have to do with not liking what the producers at FOX do to the art of magic? Or for that matter posting it here in this forum.
I can see why Richard Kaufman gets frustrated with this forum. Ya always get "one" bringing up the Constitution and his First Amendment rights. Jezzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!!

ENOUGH !

[Bill Duncan]

Originally posted by Peter Marucci:
So you want to stop Fox from airing those exposures; well, does that mean that, if I get enough people together who agree with me, we can stop Fox from broadcasting something else?
-----
I think the answer to all the above is obvious: NO!
-----
It has something to do with a pesky bit of business called the First Amendment and the U.S. Constitution.

Well first off, freedom of speach doesn't allow you to shout "fire" in a crowded theater and your right to swing your arm ends exactly where someone else's nose begins, so the real question is do the Fox exposure specials really harm anyone or any group?

I doubt that anyone (with the possible exception of David Blaine) could seriously make that claim.

So now it comes down to that other great test of what's allowed on TV. Does it offend any significant demographic enough to hurt the bottom line?

The real question then becomes how much money to magicians spend on the crap sold during the specials and would those advertisers respond to a boycott?

If you're offened by the specials you can vote with your pocket book:
Gatorade
KFC
Neutrogena
Pur water filters
Cadillac / GM
Clairol Herbal Essences
Aleve
Seattle Seahawks - (no problem boycotting them)
WALMART
Dodge
Covergirl
Gatorade again
Greyhound

I don't have a problem with never buying any of their products again but I'm sure gonna miss KFC's Popcorn Chicken.
:(

[Brian Marks]

I did a show the day after this show originally aired. I did the twisting arm effect. No one in a room of 150 saw the show. By this time anyone who did see the show or rerun has forgotten. Your double lifts should be better than the "magician" on the show. If they aren't, I wouldnt be worried about the show. Youll expose it yourself.

[Guest]

Counldn't have said it better Brian ! Exactly !!!
Now lets get back to talking about magic !!!
What does Jon say?...."Onward" !!!

[John LeBlanc]

Originally posted by Jeffyz:
Whats next? A show exposing the fact there is no Santa Clause or Easter Bunny?

But there is no Santa Clause or Easter Bunny. The Great Pumpkin says so.

John LeBlanc
Houston, TX

[MaxNY]

Companys generally don't look-n-see what type of show their ad is running on. They get booked into blocks more often than not...You buy your ads through brokers most of the time. "We'll give you prime time network, and you can run the ad on morning drive at XX % off." Trust me, your company has a new ad campaign, you just want that sucker on the air.

[Guest]

I think Lisa hit the nail on the head: The average person watching the show will not remember the method exposed as it just isn't something that's relevant to their day to day life.They watch long enough to say,Oh that's how it works, and then forget it. I also agree with Jim that some of the methods were ridiculous--that watch thing in particular was like something out of James Bond. When the show originally aired, I thought, Great--no more cigarette thru quarter. But I just started doing the pencil thru quarter instead--I really like the Ammar handling of suggesting it's an illusion--and have had no one suggest that I'm using the gimmicked quarter exposed on Fox. So much of magic is dependant upon presentation that I can't see that shows such as this do any lasting harm.

[Kamus]

I wasn't trying to suggest that magic has suffered a mortal blow, just another kick in the pants that we don't need. And I also wasn't trying to say that it's OK to expose illusions but not close-up as one poster seemed to imply- just that the last show potentially affects more magicians. I also wasn't trying to suggest that we repeal freedom of speech from the Constitution as another poster suggested (LOL!)

Golly, I was merely expressing dismay that Fox put another crappy exposure show on the air and despite the fact that magic will somehow pick up the pieces and go on with its life, that it just sucks-that's all.

It's always amazing/amusing to me the amount of misunderstanding that occurs on these public forums.
-Dave

[Stefan Fisher]

One question, did you watch the show? If so you did exactly what Fox wanted you to do. At this point, Fox probably figures that magicians will complain about the show but will sit down to watch it, and in so doing they will see the commercials. I agree that such tv shows should not be made and therefore I refuse to watch them.

[MaxNY]

The watch set trick was such a Rule Goldberg (sp?) type of devise, I think people tend to laugh at that stuff, I know my father did. The only thing that has hurt me so far has been more people want from the bottom of the deck more often. I think the biggest exposure is of our most important secret, probably least remembered by layman...Miss Direction.

[Jim Maloney_dup1]

Originally posted by MaxNY:
Rule Goldberg (sp?)

The name is actually Rube Goldberg -- close enough, though! :)

-Jim

[MaxNY]

Reuben Lucius Goldberg...(Thanks Google). He said there are two ways to do things;the simple way, and the hard way. A surprising number of people preferred doing things the hard way. This was stated during the end of the Industrial Revolution, but is this still valid today? Are magic secrets shadowing Industrial Revolutionary ways? Are there fascinations with magician's "Rube Goldberg" secrets? Magicians/Card workers appear so anal with there Double lift perfectionism, as if their way to do the lift resembles Rube's "harder way".
Some of the best magic/comedy I have ever seen lets the audience in on the gag, but in reality, lets the audience in on some "Rube" devise. Example; Harry Anderson dropping his pants on Carson, showing some elaborate Hold-Out devise. Scott the Magician's "walking stair-way".Benson's Sticks with a thread in the back. People want to be fooled by magicians using, (and perhaps) exposing the most preposterous methods.
There is something humorous about diversion into the absurd, and lampooning the wonder of technology.
Many thread the hatred of Blaine's "look, watch, see, see, look, look, watch" dialog... I find the grandiloquence Penn, or Jay much more fascinating. I believe they too mis-direct their audience, through "hard-way" communications.
So many lay-persons commented to me about Ricky's Knight's Tour... but what they remembered was his recital of Shakespeare??? Why is it that my Dad (just a retired father of a life-long magician) wants to comment on the watch winder? Somebody should put together a totally "Rube" magic show.

[Richard Kaufman]

Rube Goldberg's "hard way" inventions were embodied in the creations of Professor Lucifer Gorganzola Butts. The wonderful game "Mouse Trap" devised by Marvin Glass in the 1960s IS a Rube Goldberg "hard way" invention brought to life as a game for kids.
Anytime you see a wacky invention where a clock goes off, and it makes a noise that scares a cat, who jumps onto a teeter-totter, which activates a hammer, which slams into a glass, which breaks and causes a baby to cry, which alerts the mother who enters the room ... this is inspired by Rube Goldberg.

[Jim Morton]

We're way off topic now, but I don't think anyone minds. :) Here are a bunch of Rube Goldberg's drawings for anyone who is interested. This is the Official Rube Goldberg Site Great stuff.

http://www.rube-goldberg.com/html/gallery.htm

Jim Morton

[Richard Kaufman]

Some of you with long memories may recall the index for the first volume of Richard's Almanac had a Rube Goldberg-esque drawing on it.

[Dustin Stinett]

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Some of you with long memories may recall the index for the first volume of Richard's Almanac had a Rube Goldberg-esque drawing on it.

I don't have access to it right now, but I remember that there was something that inspired Jay Marshal to finally put out the missing issues of The New Phoenix. I'm still waiting!

Because I have a complete file, I do not own the book version of Richard's Almanac. Did you not release that cartoon with that book?

Dustin

[Richard Kaufman]

I can't recall if it's in the book or not. There were actually two books. The first contained only the first volume and had a green dustjacket. It WAS in there.
But, if you have a full file of the original, then you have it!

[MaxNY]

Still off topic ( I guess). Mad Magic, a pocketbook from the creators of Mad Magazine, had some wonderful "Rube" explanations to popular magic tricks.

[Jim Maloney_dup1]

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
Rube Goldberg's "hard way" inventions were embodied in the creations of Professor Lucifer Gorganzola Butts. The wonderful game "Mouse Trap" devised by Marvin Glass in the 1960s IS a Rube Goldberg "hard way" invention brought to life as a game for kids.
Anytime you see a wacky invention where a clock goes off, and it makes a noise that scares a cat, who jumps onto a teeter-totter, which activates a hammer, which slams into a glass, which breaks and causes a baby to cry, which alerts the mother who enters the room ... this is inspired by Rube Goldberg.

The opening sequence of Back to the Future shows off Doc Brown's great Rube Goldberg device for making his breakfast and feeding his dog. Every self-respecting mad scientist needs some kind of Rube Goldberg device in his life.

Oh...I almost forgot -- the way The Goonies open the gate in their front yard is a nice Rube Goldberg device.

-Jim

[MaxNY]

And who could forget Pee Wee's Big Adventure... The Port Authority Bus Terminal in NYC has this terrific maze of billard balls dropping one-by-one
and than activating ladders, bells, & pulleys.There is no real end result, but if you stay around long enough, you can see ten balls released at once due to their built-up weight. People stand and watch that devise for hours!
Last year I restored and put to DVD all the Henning specials...My masters were the best in the world, I know that for a fact (Braggart). I then asked my best friend in magic Steve Johnson what he would most like to see...Can you guess???
Go on and try, see if you can remember back twenty-five years and the answer has to do with this very sub-thread..."I always wanted to re-visit the Cosby Mouse-Trap!" Now, this was an illusion I completely forgot about, and still not my favorite, but will say the clouds as background (Charlie Reynolds) absolute genius.
Still trying to weave this thread back into our Foxy Quilt...A wonderful parody (SNL) would be the most outlandish Rube devise exposed by some "Masked" impostor, revealing some simple ritual.

[Richard Kaufman]

There's another one of those Rube-Goldberg type ball gizmo/sculptures in, I think, the Minneapolis airport.