What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 14th, 2006, 2:17 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
As Bill Kalush amply demonstrated in his talk at the Collector's Convention a few months ago, the entire Mirror Cuffs challenge was a fake, set up by Houdini from start to finish.
So, if Houdini cried when he came out of the cabinet (which seems REALLY unlikely even if the Mirror, which was in cahoots with him, reported it), it was fake.
I don't really see much difference.

Houdini biographers have questioned the validity of the actual challenge, but I don't recall any of them questioning the fact that Houdini broke down and cried at the end of the Mirror challenge.

For whatever reasons (dramatic or otherwise), [b]they both cried. [/b]

In public, during a performance.

And news of their crying was seen by the public at large, either via television (Blaine) or a very popular newspaper (The Mirror).

Their motives for doing so (or the validity of their respective stunts) doesn't change the fact that, yeah, Houdini did cry. :)


Interestingly, one can actually buy a nice duplicate of the mirror cuffs.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 14th, 2006, 10:40 pm

Originally posted by MaxNY:
I thought going for a Worlds Record was too risky. And, I may add, not just any World's Record,the BRASS RING of World Records.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if it was a legit attempt at a record why didn't we see anyone from Guinness there? Every time I've seen a record attempt at anything they were featured prominently...

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 15th, 2006, 8:10 am

Since there are no other reports of Houdini crying after an escape, and the report you cite is in a newspaper in cahoots with Houdini in a bogus escape, I would question whether he cried at all! It sounds far more like some literary excess on the part of the newspaper.
Since there was no real challenge to the escape, what possible reason would Houdini have to cry. None. And unless you can give me some real hard facts from sources other than the Mirror, I'll stick with my statement:
HOUDINI DIDN'T CRY
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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Ian Kendall » May 15th, 2006, 9:28 am

Bill,

There was an interesting piece on the BBC news site (I put a link to it at the time). Apparantly, Blaine was not going to claim the record, because to do that the Guiness folk would have to be there for two hours prior to the attempt to check that he wasn't breathing pure oxygen (the record for which is significantly longer than nine minutes, it seems).

I think the blurb said 'hold his breath longer than the record'.

Take care, Ian

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 2:35 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman: Since there are no other reports of Houdini crying after an escape, and the report you cite is in a newspaper in cahoots with Houdini in a bogus escape, I would question whether he cried at all!
Biographers including Milbourne Christopher have also reported on the incident of crying. Unless one has good evidence that the Mirror article is their only source, one cannot know that the the information wasn't obtained from various or other sources. (private writings, reports from audience members, other reports in newspaper/magazines etc.)

From "HOUDINI the untold story" by "Milbourne Christopher"
An hour had passed without complaints of boredom from the audience. The orchestra swept into a march. An hour and ten minutes. Houdini suddenly leaped from the cabinet. His hands were free. He held the cuffs aloft.

The crowd shouted, cheered, stamped their feet, waved their arms. Some of the committeemen lifted Houdini to their shoulders and paraded him around the stage. Then Houdini's reserve broke. Tears gushed from his eyes. Eventually he took a deep breath, wiped his face, and accepted the hearty handshake and the compliments of the man from the Mirror. The journalist said that the newspaper would present him with a trophy - a solid silver replica of the Birmingham cuffs - as soon as it could be made. Harry assured the audience he had never been treated as fairly, or as gentlemanly, in a challenge test.
It sounds far more like some literary excess on the part of the newspaper.
If so, why would Houdini (egotist that he was) logically allow potentially embarrassing information(that he sobbed like his heart was going to break) to be printed up about him in a very large, very popular newspaper? Perhaps he wasn't embarrassed by it this one time or perhaps it actually occurred and it would be awkward to dispute something that occurred in front of a theater full of witnesses.

His biographers tell us Houdini was very fond of his reputation as a tough guy. So I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have disputed said fact or asked for retraction if he took offense at the reporting or reporting of his sobbing actually didn't happen. Do you or anyone else have any information showing that he ever disputed the report of his sobbing on stage?

Claiming "literary excess" with not a shred of supportive evidence doesn't mean this particular facet of the story has no validity.

The fact is that Houdini allowed the public perception that he "sobbed like his heart was breaking" to exist and persist is telling. It doesn't much matter whether he was acting or not when he cried, but that he was willing to allow the whole world to believe it to be true.

Since there was no real challenge to the escape, what possible reason would Houdini have to cry. None
He could have cried for purely dramatic reasons as actors do. And that wouldn't change the fact that he cried at all or wanted the public to believe he did.

Hell, even Blaine could have been acting when he cried for all we know. His trite little speech at the end had all the hallmarks of being pre-scripted. His (or Houdini's) motives for crying don't much change the fact that they cried.

Richard Kaufman wrote:
And unless you can give me some real hard facts from sources other than the Mirror, I'll stick with my statement:
HOUDINI DIDN'T CRY
The Mirror story is a hard source whether or not the challenge itself was fake or not. The likelihood that Houdini was "in cahoots" with the challenge itself,logically has no connection to the fact that he cried, for either dramatic or other purposes. And who knows? Perhaps he was in cahoots, but something came up to cause him stress? Perhaps he thought crying was the right thing to do to get a bit more ink? We know he was pretty shameless in such things, so the thought he'd cry to play up the drama for the audience (as Blaine also probably did) isn't that huge a stretch for me.

So unless I see some contradictory evidence specifically disputing that one particular facet of that one particular show, I'll continue to take the word of the Mirror article and various Houdini biographers that tell us that yes, Houdini did indeed cry. :)

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 15th, 2006, 4:22 pm

You still have not provided a single source for Houdini's crying other than either the Mirror or people who have (with or without attribution) quoted from the Mirror.
End of story unless you've got some other evidence.
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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 4:26 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
You still have not provided a single source for Houdini's crying other than either the Mirror or people who have (with or without attribution) quoted from the Mirror.
End of story unless you've got some other evidence.
I have the written record and the words of Houdini's biographers. I have yet to see any hard evidence that directly disputes Houdini's crying episode.

Do we know for a fact that Houdini's biographers solely used that one article for their information? Is it not possible that the challenge could be completely fake while still being capped with Houdini crying for dramatic effect? If an actor can cry for a bit of newspaper ink, why not Houdini?

It's known that he would fake being exhausted/disheveled/etc. after doing certain escapes that weren't arduous for him, yet it's a stretch to think he'd shed a few tears (and have said tears reported) for some boffo publicity?

It might be ok for some, but I prefer more than guesses and wishful thinking to trump the research of the biographers and the written record.

And nothing changes the fact that Houdini was aware of the reports of him "sobbing like his heart would break" and did nothing to disabuse the public of that notion.

Calling the challenge "fake" (which is likely was) doesn't impact the fact that Houdini could have easily cried (and let it be publicly known he cried) for purely dramatic effect.

So as Houdini made no effort to dispute the fact that he cried on stage, I'll continue to believe that yes, Houdini did cry. :)

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 5:41 pm

Who knows what happened? Only Harry himself, and judging by the seances I've been to, he ain't talkin'. Ba DUM bum! Thank you.

Did Babe Ruth call his shot? There's an actual photo of him from that game, "pointing at something" just before he smacked one, but to this day people still argue.
--And by the way, what's the deal with that Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald thing?

We will never know. We were not there--though it must have been quite a scene that night, eh?...

Ultimately I agree with the Chief Genii: Houdini was perhaps the greatest "showman" of all time; if he cried, it had to have been calculated for effect as was evidently, every other detail.

I know one thing though: If Houdini was here today and you called him a cry-baby why, he would mop-up the floor with you, as if you were a phony-spiritualist! --And well he should!

(He WAS a mommy's boy though...)

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 5:56 pm

Originally posted by castawaydave:
Ultimately I agree with the Chief Genii: Houdini was perhaps the greatest "showman" of all time; if he cried, it had to have been calculated for effect as was evidently, every other detail.
And you miss the point. I never claimed Houdini's crying was any more authentic than Blaine's. I simply said (and gave evidence of) the fact that he did cry and that said crying was reported in the press and by his biographers. It doesn't matter what his motives were. No bit of specific evidence convincingly debunks the reports that he cried (even if he did so for dramatic purposes). And if he did cry for calculated reasons, there isn't a bit of evidence to say Blaine didn't do the same.

The published record and his biographer's are pretty blunt in that he did cry (for whatever reasons, dramatic, pre-calculated or not). I don't see how claims to the contrary (lacking hard evidence) are any better than guesswork.

I know one thing though: If Houdini was here today and you called him a cry-baby why, he would mop-up the floor with you, as if you were a phony-spiritualist! --And well he should!
The newspaper report (The mirror) did exactly that (saying that he "sobbed as though his heart was breaking") and he allowed that very public perception to remain unchallenged until his death.

Barring any actual evidence to the contrary, I see no convincing argument that would keep me from believing that (for whatever reasons) Houdini did cry.


Even though I disagree with RK about the whole "crying" bit, I do agree with him that comparisons of Blaine to Houdini seem premature. I see no reason to believe that Blaine will become an enduring part of pop culture nearly 70 years after his death, as Houdini has done.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 6:06 pm

I missed the point?! Why I NEVER.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 6:17 pm

Originally posted by castawaydave:
I missed the point?! Why I NEVER.
Well, maybe just this once... ;)

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 15th, 2006, 7:21 pm

I really feel like I'm talking to a stone.
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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 7:38 pm

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
I really feel like I talking to a stone.
"Stone" or not, I think my arguments speak for themselves.

Houdini could have (and well may have) faked a crying jag and Blaine perhaps did the same. I don't question their motives, choosing to address the claim that "HOUDINI NEVER CRIED!", which is something the historical record doesn't seem to support.

If there's actual evidence debunking the specific claim that Houdini wept (in a theatrical sense or not), I'd be more than happy to consider it.

As far as "crying" (for whatever reason), I'd say the comparison between Houdini and Blaine crying in public isn't much of a stretch. I don't find it tough to believe Houdini would shed a few faux tears in order to gain a bit of publicity. The same goes for Blaine.

Now as magic (or pop) icons go, I don't think Blaine will ever reach the height of enduring fame that Houdini achieved. But that's just my personal opinion, history might someday prove me wrong. :)

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 8:15 pm

I think it's obvious who is doing the crying here.

Yeesh.

All the best,

Kranzo

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 8:49 pm

Originally posted by Nathan Kranzo:
I think it's obvious who is doing the crying here.

Yeesh.

All the best,

Kranzo
So is it safe to assume you have nothing substantive to add to this conversation?

Though you are correct. I have no doubt at all who's crying now.

Yeesh.

All the best,

Chris ;)

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 10:01 pm

Heheheh...

Great comeback. You are a master of words.

Chris you are right. Absolutely nothing to offer. Just an observation that you are a crier.

Sorry to interrupt. I'll let you and Richard continue.

Carry on...

All the best,

Kranzo ;)

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 10:15 pm

Why is everyone crying?

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 10:15 pm

Originally posted by Nathan Kranzo:

Heheheh...
Beavis? Is that you ? ;)

Chris you are right. Absolutely nothing to offer.
No surprises there.


Great comeback. You are a master of words.

Just an observation that you are a crier.
Ah, ad-hominem. And something I suspect might be attempted sarcasm.

Disappointing, but not unexpected.

But it is sort of amusing, coming as it does from one who is evidently quick to kvetch and yet slow to contribute anything of substance to this thread.

So how about that Blaine special eh?

Anyone notice that he emulated Houdini to the point of crying after a highly publicized stunt? Cheeky lads, crying (yes crying like little girls!) just to garner a spot of favorable publicity. Yeesh! That's absolutely shocking. ;)

All the best

Chris

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 15th, 2006, 11:55 pm

It's probably just me, but did anyone notice that the "shattering card" thing Blaine did (which does seem like a nice idea) came off kind of flat the way they filmed it? It seemed a really easy to miss "the moment" and the reaction seemed a bit muted compared to some of the stuff he's done in the past.

With Paul Harris as consultant, were any of the effects performed actually Harris effects? From what I see being sold, I think perhaps not.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 12:31 am

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
You still have not provided a single source for Houdini's crying other than either the Mirror or people who have (with or without attribution) quoted from the Mirror.
End of story unless you've got some other evidence.
Wow....

OK - as someone looking at this from the outside I would say that I have seen a couple of items of what could be considered 'evidence' from others, and nothing at all from Richard other than "I say this didn't happen - so there..!"

Richard - in the absence of any firm "evidence" from yourself that Houdini did NOT cry on that occasion, why should we not believe that he did?

Do you HAVE any such evidence?

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 6:12 am

Firstly, let me say that I see no reason why Houdini might not have shed a tear or two, genuine or not. A good showman will take any opportunity before him.
In Richard's defense, however, let me state that it is not incumbent upon him to prove what didn't happen. You cannot prove a negative.
There will be no reports which read, "and on that day Houdini did not cry".

Also, in response to PH's involvement with DB's tv special, I don't think any of the effects are his.
The shattering glass card thing, while reminiscent (slightly) of Paul's "Solid Deception", was just plain confusing. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the effect was. A guy was holding a card; the girl with the deck thought of a card; her card vanished from the deck; the guy's card (or cards, I'm not even sure how many) is thrown to the ground and something, presumably other cards, shatters, revealing the correct card. Wha-?

For the record, the absolute best version of "Solid Deception" is one published by David Harkey and Eric Anderson in their book AH-HA!
It's one of the best kept secrets in cool card effects and I have no idea why I'm telling you this becasue I want to be the only guy doing it...

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 6:38 am

In Richard's defense, however, let me state that it is not incumbent upon him to prove what didn't happen. You cannot prove a negative.
That's why I'm always puzzled as to why folks would even bother positing such inherently unsupportable claims in the first place.

Perhaps in 50-60 years, someone will proclaim "BLAINE NEVER CRIED". And upon being shown clear evidence to the contrary, that person will simply say, "Well, Blaine planned to cry from the start, and was in cahoots with the producers. So it doesn't count!" ;)
Originally posted by Travis Winkler:
The shattering glass card thing, while reminiscent (slightly) of Paul's "Solid Deception", was just plain confusing. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the effect was.
I thought there was a good idea in there somewhere, but the buildup or actual effect just didn't really have any clarity at all. And say what one will about Blaine, most of the effects he uses are normally pretty much to the point. I noticed that the cell phone thing (again with some important bits snipped out), still didn't play as well as his original "ashes on arm", instead coming off as sort of a lamer high tech version of the same effect.

For the record, the absolute best version of "Solid Deception" is one published by David Harkey and Eric Anderson in their book AH-HA!
It's one of the best kept secrets in cool card effects and I have no idea why I'm telling you this becasue I want to be the only guy doing it...
Sankey had this really nifty idea of having the deck physically bolted together. Would be easier to prepare the deck that way and is really much more visible than a simple glued deck.

Guest

Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 6:52 am

Originally posted by Travis Winkler:
In Richard's defense, however, let me state that it is not incumbent upon him to prove what didn't happen. You cannot prove a negative.
Others have offered at least some "evidence" that it DID happen. To simply respond with "It didn't happen 'cos I say it didn't... so there!" is not really useful.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 8:06 am

Agreed, Bob.

Chris, in the Harkey effect the cards are not glued together (which I agree is a painstaking process, though Harkey's requires a bit of effort as well).
Essentially, at the end of the Harkey/Anderson version, which carries a sort of time travel theme, the deck turns to solid, petrified rock, which is then thrown to the ground and breaks into several pieces.
It's cool. And it kills. And it takes forever to prepare, so none of you should do it. Really, don't waste your time. You've got better things to do.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 16th, 2006, 8:14 am

Chris, you cite a situation where someone in the future would claim that Blaine didn't cry and when shown the evidence, in this case a TV broadcast, refused to believe it.
It's absurd to compare that with what I've been saying. There is no filmed footage of Houdini crying. Unless you can present some independent accounts of the Houdini event (not merely people reprinting the [censored] from the Mirror), you have NO evidence that he cried--only a bogus newspaper account--a newspaper account that is demonstrably bogus because they were in cahoots with Houdini and had every reason to exaggerate their coverage of the event.
So drop it.
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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 8:42 am

The Times of London does have some coverage of the performance (Friday, Mar 18, 1904; pg. 10). It does not mention any crying.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 10:02 am

Originally posted by Richard Kaufman:
It's absurd to compare that with what I've been saying. There is no filmed footage of Houdini crying.
And we all know how completely impossible it would be for someone to fake video footage of Blaine (or perceive that it might have been, shall we say, less than accurate)...

Folks choose to doubt a plethora of things for a variety of reasons, often with widely subjective criteria. It's just human Nature I suppose. I'm reminded of that old saying "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"

Houdini (who I have little doubt was indeed in "cahoots" with the Mirror) made no overt effort to disabuse the public of the perceived fact that he cried after the Mirror Cuffs challenge(or for that matter, make sure it was never published in the first place).

So I can easily believe he had no issue with the public believing that he cried after that particular stunt. Great PR and all that.

Unless you can present some independent accounts of the Houdini event (not merely people reprinting the [censored] from the Mirror), you have NO evidence that he cried--only a bogus newspaper account--a newspaper account that is demonstrably bogus because they were in cahoots with Houdini and had every reason to exaggerate their coverage of the event.
Well, while the challenge might have been "bogus" or "[censored]", I see no really compelling evidence that the newspaper couldn't have simply been accurately (or even mostly accurately) reporting what the audience was scripted to see. Even if that included a bit of crying for dramatic effect. :)

Where's the evidence (or logic) here that the two ideas posited (bogus challenge/ potentially accurate reporting of said bogus challenge based on what the audience experienced) are mutually exclusive?

Whenever I see a bold claim that contains the words "always" or "never", I always tend to believe that a rather clear preponderance of convincing evidence would be necessary to support a statement so broadly presented. While I'd be quite willing to entertain this sort of evidence here, I've yet to see it.

For the comparison with Blaine's on air crying to hold much weight, one would likely have to assume that Blaine's crying was somehow more "real" than Houdini's. I saw nothing to convince me that Blaine's crying couldn't have been just as premeditated, which really shoots the comparison to hell for me.
So drop it.
Sure, I have no qualms about agreeing to disagree and having this be my last post on the matter.

It's your forum Richard, and your rules.

So of course I'll respect your desire that I "drop it", with this post being my last word on the subject here.

Peace.

Now about that Blaine special...

Would folks say the "self tying lace" is really that strong? Or that it just seemed strong because so much of the other street magic seemed so weak? None of the effects on the special really seemed to have the impact that the effects on the first two specials did.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 11:30 am

:sleep:

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 2:11 pm

Chris,

I can indeed attest to the strength of the shoelace bit.
It kills. I can't remember the last time I had so much fun with a trick. People scream/laugh with delight. It's the kind of response I love; the kind where they simply have to express emotion because it's such a wonderful little moment.
It has the benefit of being such a "real" moment, as well. I just wait for someone to point out my untied shoelace (they always will) and then the magic happens. Just like what a real magician would do.
Yep, I love it.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 2:30 pm

Originally posted by Travis Winkler:
People scream/laugh with delight. It's the kind of response I love; the kind where they simply have to express emotion because it's such a wonderful little moment.
It's good hear that from someone who actually uses it.

I always assumed that Blaine's spectators were chosen for their ability to yell and screech about nearly anything whether it's interesting or not. Sort of like the stock L&L audiences.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 16th, 2006, 11:46 pm

Hey, ya'll aren't really going to drop the Houdini crying thing are you?

I'm sure we all wanted to hear some more on that!
;)

But seriously, why would the Mirror report false details of an event that was witnessed by hundreds of people?

People who undoubtedly would all be purchasing a copy of the paper, to read about the spectacle of which they were a part.

Why subject yourself to the disapprobation of your readership and the ridicule of rival newspapers?

Was there ever a single case of someone who was in attendance, contradicting the Mirror's report?
Someone saying, Hey! I was there. He never cried!

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Richard Kaufman » May 17th, 2006, 7:34 am

Brad, at the time there was no Internet, no TV, no radio, and unless a silent film crew happened to be recording something or someone took a photograph, no record of any kind except what was in the papers.

The papers printed all kinds of ridiculous trash that couldn't be verified one way or the other.
In this case, who cares if a few hundred people saw something other than what was recorded in the newspaper, which was read by tens of thousands?

The Mirror certainly wasn't going to print a letter from someone who wrote in, "Your article is crap because I was there and he didn't cry."
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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby NCMarsh » May 17th, 2006, 8:20 am

Originally posted by Travis Winkler:
You cannot prove a negative.
I couldn't resist commenting on this -- though my comments are utterly irrelevant to this particular discussion as the negatives that can be proven are those that proceed from rational necessity and not historical accidents of human will (i.e. did Houdini cry or not)

That said: it has become a false article of faith in our times (particularly in the skeptical movement) that it is impossible to prove a negative. It is, of course, very difficult to prove a negative and not all negative propositions, not even all true negative propositions, can be proven. That said, we can rigorously prove a large number of negative propositions: that the diagonal of a square is not commensurable with its sides, that the asymptotes of a hyperbola do not, at any point in their infinite extension, touch the section, etc. etc.

There is -- and has been for thousands of years -- a solid and reliable way to rationally prove these negative propositions: reductio ad absurdum. We can match any negative proposition to a contradictory positive proposition. If that contradictory proposition can be proven to be impossible -- if it contradicts a common notion, postulate, definition, or itself -- and it is the case that either the positive or the negative must be true, without any other options, than the negative proposition must be true.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I hate hearing this "negatives cannot be proven" nonsense continue to be bandied about.

Best,

N.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 17th, 2006, 8:34 am

Thank you, Nathan. You took the words out of my mouth (although they were not as succinctly formed as yours)...

If such rigorous standards were routinely applied to the "loose talk" and other rash claims that skitter through various forums, the level of discourse would surely improve...

...but then it might take away the fun and frippery...?

Onward...

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 17th, 2006, 9:39 am

Gentlemen (Nathan & Jon),

I defer to your wisdom.
I ask, though, isn't the proof of the negative reliant upon proof of the positive? That is to say, is it not by virtue of the fact that proof of the positive exists that the negative, as antithesis, is demonstrated? A is not non-A.

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Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Lisa Cousins » May 17th, 2006, 10:33 am

Jay Marshall was a crier. Maybe David Blaine is more like Jay Marshall than like Houdini. Emotionally rich.

Or maybe David Blaine merely aspires to be emotionally rich, and he puts himself through these melodramatic public challenges and crushings for the sake of feeling a feeling. The most subtle, tender things got to Jay.

Guest

Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 17th, 2006, 11:25 am

So, we began with the question, "What did you think of Blaine's TV special?" We seem to have arrived at the answer, "I think Houdini cried on stage and it is indeed possible to prove a negative."...Very interesting.

Guest

Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 17th, 2006, 12:17 pm

Remember Houdini and Blaine are show business, and magic show business at that, nothing presented is intended to hold up, under penalty of perjury.

"Houdini didn't cry", is a wished-for sacred cow, like, "Houdini wouldn't cheat on Bess" or "Houdini hated those imitators who tried to do HIS challenge handcuff act, jail breaks, and handcuff dives.."
When evidence shows the opposite is true.

It is pointless to speculate what what Houdini did or not by what was reported, or NOT reported by THE MIRROR.
How many times have you been to some event or interview, and later seeing what a newspaper or TV station do with it, ask, "Were we at the same event?"
I certainly wouldn't accept on face value, what The N.Y. Times or CBS, said yesterday, as an accurate, honest, complete record.
Nor could I depend on THE MIRROR, a hundred years ago, to be an accurate source either.
But this is show busiess...show business stories at that.

Guest

Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 17th, 2006, 12:25 pm

Originally posted by Bob Farmer:
I watched "Prison Break" on Fox, a show with drama, surprises, intelligence, great characters and lots of violence.

I flipped over to Blaine afterwards and found the "show" a tedious, tasteless and incredibly stupid spectacle.

The segment where he exploited the death of an extreme deep diver, a female marine biologist, to empahsize the "danger" of his dumb stunt indicates this guy has no moral compass at all.

I understand recordings of his mind-numbing mumbling about testing his limits is now being used to anesthetize surgical patients and induce comas in cockroaches.

To anyone who truly loves magic, watching this guy is as painful as the president of the John Coltrane fan club being forced to listen to Kenny G.

David: Retire now. Go away. Take up some other hobby (but not the saxophone!).
QUESTION: What did Kenny G say as he got off the elevator?

ANSWER: This place ROCKS!!!

Guest

Re: What did you think of Blaine's TV Special?

Postby Guest » May 17th, 2006, 12:45 pm

Originally posted by John Wilson:
So, we began with the question, "What did you think of Blaine's TV special?" We seem to have arrived at the answer, "I think Houdini cried on stage and it is indeed possible to prove a negative."...Very interesting.
I was just thinking the same thing LOL

I'm sorry I started all this ... :D


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