Directors Help?

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Jonathan Townsend
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Directors Help?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 29th, 2002, 8:45 pm

This week we have a guest in the house who asked me a question that just made so much sense I have to pass it on to the forum.

Are there directors that specialize in working with magicians? i. e. people magicians can take routines to for assistance getting the story points clarified and audience reaction moments set so the routine gets maximal effect in performance?
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Jon Racherbaumer
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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Jon Racherbaumer » November 29th, 2002, 8:54 pm

Yes, there are a few directors--Bob Fitch, for one. Jeff McBride also teaches and gives direction through his Master Classes. Peter Pit used to give directions for a fee.

Yes, magicians should seek professional guidance from directors and other theatrical people. However, in my circumscribed existence in magicdom, I've found that many magicians do not THINK they need any direction. Many of these deluded performers actually become professionals. Many of these same people are also surprised and frustrated that they do not rise higher in the ranks of showbiz.

Onward...

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Robert Kane » November 29th, 2002, 9:37 pm

I agree with Jon that direction and feedback from a professional can be a wonderful thing...a true growing experience. At the same time, taking direction can be devastating to your ego and your general confidence as a performer.

I recently participated in a small seminar given by Eugene Burger where, as a participant and for a reasonable fee, you performed a routine or two and Eugene proceeded to give his comments on how you could improve your presentation, mechanics and style.

I walked away from the seminar feeling numb and very down on myself as a performer. While Eugene gave candid and useful information, it was hard for me to hear and to digest in my somewhat saddened head after the fact. I felt like I was given a whole lot of negative and precious little positive. I asked myself, "What's the point of even continuing? Everything I did apparently sucked....etc."

I did grow from the experience, but it also made me reconsider whether I should even attempt to grow further in magic. Later and after further thought on my experience, I found myself both agreeing and disagreeing with the opinions expressed by Eugene. I did indeed take Eugenes direction in a number of ways, but I also realized that I too had valid thoughts on the performance of magic and that it was entirely OK for me to disagree with a respected master such as Eugene. I think that this is a positive outcome and that Eugene wanted all of the participants to continually think carefully about their magic and especially their presentation. It's good, but it hurts like hell.

A few months down the line, I discussed the experience at length with Dennis Loomis and Gene Anderson, who then provided me with some desperately needed positive encouragement, which has also helped me to continue to study and grow in magic.

Directions for a performer are very useful, but be prepared to have many aspects of what you think good to be examined, questioned and in many cases diminished in value.

These are just my thoughts before you go diving for direction. I encourage all to seek direction from all good sources. However, keep in mind, that you may walk out with more than you bargained for...good, bad and indifferent.

Whatever the case, dont expect your ego to be intact when you walk out the door.

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » November 29th, 2002, 10:17 pm

Taking any kind of criticism is hard, but taken in the right way can be very helpful. Often we get suggestions from other magicians that are meant to be helpful, but may be off the mark from where we are trying to get to. The other performer often will steer you into more comfortable, well-traveled paths, when you want to go in a new direction. Sometimes the other performer wants to show-off his knowledge and make you feel one down, and rarely, but sometimes, I have known performers who will deliberately try to hurt another performer out of envy or spite.

My grandmother, Jessamine Shumate, was an abstract expressionist painter in Virginia, working mostly in the 1950's and 60's. Her husband, my grandfather, was in the furniture business, and though well to do, had grown up a country boy who had very little education. When Grandmother asked his opinion of one of her paintings, he would point to this or that place on the canvas and say something completely silly, such as "I think it needs some red here." She would get mad and throw him out of the studio.

Then she would look at the painting again, and eventually she would add some triangular figure, or other design element to the spot he had pointed to and find that everything was improved.

When she told me this story, she said, "He was always wrong about what should be done. But he was always right about where it should be done. If something is perfect, no one can point to a weak spot. Now whenever anyone criticizes anything I do, I always go back and study the thing they pointed to. No matter what their suggestion might be, no matter what reason they had for making it, the thing they point to almost always needs a little work."

It helps to keep your focus on the work, and not on yourself. Performance art especially is always a work in process and can constantly be revised and improved. When approached properly, taking criticism and polishing a piece can become a fascinating thing in itself, as rewarding as the performance and the accolades from those who appreciate what we do.

Great actors and dancers still attend "class" and find comfort and support in the intense criticism and focus of a teacher. This is work. Magic should be treated just as seriously as ballet or singing. We should learn to swallow our egos and focus on the art.

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Larry Horowitz » November 29th, 2002, 11:20 pm

I have often been asked to help other magicians with their presentations and it is something I enjoy doing. One of the skills that many magicians lack is the knowledge of how to entertain people. I don't mean with magic, I mean simply, how to be entertain. There are "tricks to the trade".

When working with a magician, it is important to not only change those parts of the show that are weak, but to remember to emphasize the strenghths. When someone walks away from a coaching and feels completly discouraged, then I feel that is the fault of the coach. Everybody has positive attributes, the coach must acertain that the performer is aware of those, and has something to build on. You cannot tear the act down completly and certainly not in one session. Every performer must retain something of themself. They must feel it is still them performing and not a puppet of the coach.

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » November 29th, 2002, 11:28 pm

Originally posted by Larry Horowitz:
...Every performer must retain something of themself...
I thought the goal was to help the performer communicate via existing routines, or from their own intentions and to make better use of the tools of the trade. I don't like the sound of personal criticism on artistic work. That can be very discouraging.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » November 29th, 2002, 11:29 pm

I have been directed on many occasions and have found it very helpful. I always ask my directors to start with "It was the best thing I have ever seen" and work from there.

A good director should inspire their performers to excel. If a director makes you feel bad about yourself they are not doing their job.

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Brad A._dup1 » November 30th, 2002, 12:10 am

Diana Zimmerman suggested that performers wanting to succeed should hire a theater director.

Hire someone from the THEATER, and who is not at all connected with magic. This way they will take your act and assist in making it more theatrical... such as the blocking, they way items are presented, etc.

Diana spoke that if you hire a director who is connected with magic, one will have feedback that winds around some of the clich theatrical errors many magicians make.

I think many magicians neglect the thought that they are on a stage, and--for the most part--should follow some of the procedures of the theater.
Former Vonnegut Character

Larry Horowitz
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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Larry Horowitz » November 30th, 2002, 1:13 am

Jonathan,
It is not my intention/suggestion to remove artistic integrity. I would not tell them what routines to perform, nor change the intentions of their show.

However, I would make suggestions as to the order of routines to get the most impact. I would want to insure that the props are appropriate to the intended venue, i.e., in a stage show,can jumbo cards be used instead of a regular deck. I might discuss with the performer, what would be a better choice for audience participant, male or female.

A quick example was a magician I met with who was telling a story about a girl with red hair, the color of the hair was important to his story. When he spoke about the girl he would take a queen out of the deck and show it. He never cared which queen he showed. I pointed out that if it was important for the audience to remember red hair, then help them by showing one of the red queens. Didn't change the story or the presentation, just helped to make it clear.

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » November 30th, 2002, 10:08 am

This subject does interest me a lot.
I have found that when we ask for feed back on a trick and presentation we should prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Why would someone get mad at some ones opinion. if you asked for it...? Sometimes the truth hurts but it may allow you to grow.

If we currently don't have the skills to perform well, we can always learn them.
Can't we?
I have been reading a book that I think may help us out.
well, it is really a few books, they are; "An Actor Prepares, Building a Character, & Creating a Role" (better know as the ABC's of acting) by Constantin Stanislavski.
and the only thing i have come a cross on material for magicians that is in the format for performing with a script is located at www.thinklikeaconjurer.com if anyone else has found material like this please let me know.

So what is it that makes a movie good?
a good director a good actor a good story...ect.
So is there any help out there for us (magicians) who want to learn?
I believe there is.

So if we are to learn to be better performers, how do we know who is a good director.
What if they teach us wrong. What if they themselves don't know.
one way to know is to learn about everything and to be open minded and test out what we are studying.

Chuck

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Steve V » November 30th, 2002, 10:43 am

I received an email from one of the greats of close up last week (I don't mention names w/out permission so I'll not do so, he would be immediately recognizable to 90% of you) in response to a comment I made about the benifit of working with Vernon and Cardini etc.. His response was that he would meet pretty much weekly with guys like Vernon and Cardini (in LA) and others and that he wanted to learn tricks. They would make him angry because rather than teaching him tricks they would tell him everything they thought was wrong with something he already did and how to improve it, how to make the effect and character work together, how the presentation and patter effect the over all routine etc.. His last comment was that while he wanted to learn tricks as most young men do, he being in his 20's at the time, these men taught him how to be an magical entertainer.

I think I'm now voting for using a director or someone who can help you and your performance even if it seems that they are knocking you down a bit.
Steve V
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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Kendrix » November 30th, 2002, 11:11 am

I think "bradmagic" had a very astute comment. I think the worst place to get help for your act is from fellow magicians. It has been much more helpful for me to have persons trained in theater, dance, acting to help me. Even though i don't do comedy I got some great pointers from a pro. comedian on how to interact with my audience.

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 1st, 2002, 7:30 pm

Well, Kendrix I think that you do have a point to some of it.
When you are entertaining kids you would want the opinion of a children's entertainer, that knows what he/she is doing. On that note I am trying to figure out why HARRY POTTER is so entertaining to kids. ANYONE know?

I figure that one of the way to find the best material out there is to watch how our audiences is reacting to our tricks, and study how the audiences is reacting to Harry Potter (to get similar results).
But I personally still want my own Writer, Director, and Teacher (acting) to help me out.
Luckly I have a Script for some of my magic which helps out in thoughs areas.

So what is everyone's thoughts on the subject?

Chuck

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 1st, 2002, 8:24 pm

Each and every entry made great sense; I particularly valued Townsend and the soul bearing individual who talked about the ego-deflating experience of "help". Yes, as Whit indicates, it probably helps to keep the foccs on the work but, as a psychotherapist I might suggest my credo (admittedly mine) that NOTHING is as important as the feelings of the other human being. Teaching that makes one feel lousy is lousy teaching, I don't care how good the technical material might be. So, it is self defeating,as our writer (I'm fearful that if I scroll back to find his name , I'll lost this e mail)so well explicated to be crushed (or permiot one's self to be crushed)in the name of anaything, art, skill, presentation etc. etc. It is self destructive. If you can't find a teacher with TLC leave him and find another. It is not your primary job to yourself to see if you can learn to take abuse.

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Jeff Eline » December 1st, 2002, 8:38 pm

Originally posted by Whit Haydn:

When she told me this story, she said, "He was always wrong about what should be done. But he was always right about where it should be done. If something is perfect, no one can point to a weak spot. Now whenever anyone criticizes anything I do, I always go back and study the thing they pointed to. No matter what their suggestion might be, no matter what reason they had for making it, the thing they point to almost always needs a little work."
I believe this is one of the most profound things I've read on this forum. We are bound to get criticism at what we do, and it is human nature to be defensive and dissmissive, especially if the solution offered is ridiculous.

However, if you're able to step back and evaluate the comment without ego, I believe you're likely to find a nugget of truth.

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 1st, 2002, 9:21 pm

What if we were to take the question from another angle?

What instructions would you give to a non - magician director so that you can use their skills to the greatest effect?

For example, I had a director look over my cut and restored rope routine. After performing it for the umpteenth time they began to point out where I do the flash restoration as weak point. Of course, they didn't spot it the first five times but soon it was the only thing they could notice.

Whilst I realise that this IS a weak point in the routine, there is nothing a non-magician can do about it.

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 1st, 2002, 9:55 pm

Well, they helped point out the weak point. It is not a theatrical director's job to fix a magical problem. You need to find a solution to the problem or get help from other magicians for it. It is important to understand what a director's job is to be.

If you want help in developing your character, clarifying or intensifying your presentation, working on your stage movement, your applause cues, etc., then you go to a theatrical director.

If you need to fix the effects or moves, you go to a magician.

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 2nd, 2002, 8:54 am

I have been active in theatre for 14 years now, and as a director of community theatre, I feel compelled to reply.
Any director worth his salt should not ever direct by using harsh critism and negativity. This only goes further to keep the actor (or, magician) down and not in focus to the matter at hand.
When directing, naturally there is a certain amount of critism that is going to take place. Often the actor and director will have different interpitations. Any critism must be given privately and with compassion. The director must be sensitive to the actors/magicians ego. After all, ego is the main reason any of us perform.
Of course, there are many times in a production when tempers will flare up, but, care should be taken that any "fires" are put out immediately after they are started.
A good director will take the time to explain in detail what they are trying to accomplish.
A good director will also be a teacher, instructing his actors on the finer points that they might be missing.
Every director that I have worked with knew when to pat on the back, and when to give a kick in the butt (motivationally only). But, the kick in the pants was mostly an attention getter, and never used as a put down in front of other actors.

I would welcome the chance to direct a magician. As an amateur/hobbyist, I feel that I would have much to contribute to any pro's act.

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 2nd, 2002, 9:32 am

TiJean,
Right on! Note, others did not respond to the ego-issue,but primarily and heavily to the "work' issue. So it is, heavily, in the good old USA. "Compassionate", "soft fuzzy" are still not easily accepted in the work field of the Protestant Ethic;(which has helped make us the success we are) in the arts however, ahhhh. things are better, if not always great.
Marty J.Kaplan

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby amakar » December 2nd, 2002, 9:34 am

What instructions would you give to a non - magician director so that you can use their skills to the greatest effect?
Instead of asking a director / writer to fit a trick with premise and a plot, I'd approach it from the opposite angle.

What premise / plot is interesting to the audience? By applying this view, a director or writer provide a script that has drama, conflict, and resolution that interests the audience.

Our traditional approach and the majority of published magic material is always method-based rather than presentation based.

I've been interested in this approach for the past three years and after finding resources who opened my eyes to this angle, my magic has improved, I've received a much stronger response to these effects, and the audiences and I are having a lot more fun.

This is typically where I get on my soap box and expouse the benefits of this approach and hope that everyone starts to learn more about this type of magic. However, I can simply say I've learned a TON from the www.thinklikeaconjurer.com
website.

Ron Bauer and Milt Kort have provided hours of advice and guidance on how to improve technically and how to really entertain an audience.

I'm still learning...but I'm learning a lot and having a lot of fun with it.

Does anyone know of any other resources that address this approach?

Andy

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 2nd, 2002, 2:47 pm

I think what Whit said could be summed up in what we've all probably heard..."I don't know what it is, but I know something just isn't right"....

I believe that we have to take ourselves out of the equation and say, "if someone else was performing exactly what I'm doing, would I think it was good?". For me personally, I've had good friends, quite frankly, piss me off because they were so blunt. However, when I stepped back (out of myself, so to speak) and looked at things from their perspective, I could see exactly what they saw. I've learned now it is better to take the criticism, and see if there isn't just a hint of truth in it.

Rick

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 2nd, 2002, 2:58 pm

Originally posted by TiJean:
I would welcome the chance to direct a magician. As an amateur/hobbyist...
Hello Ti,

I got the best feedback from the actors and film students at college. They would tell me when I was rushing, or when I was being incongruent and when my motivations were simply unclear. As I learned some of their language I was able to finally answer my brother's question... He never asked me 'how did you do that?, but instead would ask 'Why did you do that?'.

I also found the actors for the most part very accesible as people and ready to help me find dramatic possibilities in routines and effects i had not even considered.
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Kendrix » December 2nd, 2002, 4:24 pm

Jonathon: I,too, have had some of the best advice from actors and theatrical performers. Their ability to build the effect and then help produce a climactic and purposeful ending is amazing. I am truly a novice at conveying emotion to my audience, but I am striving to improve.
I have had some show disappointment when they learn the workings of an effect, but that is a necessary evil of magic. I, too, feel for the person who commented on the T&R being watched the umpteenth time and then, the weakness pointed out. Of course, that breaks a cardinal rule of the performance of magic.

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 2nd, 2002, 4:38 pm

I, too, feel for the person who commented on the T&R being watched the umpteenth time and then, the weakness pointed out.
Thanks Kendrix.

If a director watches an effect over and over, they lose the layperson POV that is so strong for a director to have.

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Danny Archer » December 4th, 2002, 12:16 pm

Having recently completed the Bob Fitch Performance Workshop that took place right after the Las Vegas Magic Invitational in September, I can attest that working with a knowledgeable director can make a big difference in your performance.

I titled my first set of lecture notes "Working Alone", and in the introduction I point out:

"Due to the solitary nature of our craft, the majority of magicians do work alone. As magicians, we are in the enviable position to act as our own writer, director, actor, editor, make-up artist, prop man, choreographer, etc., for our performances. In that sense, we do work alone. The title Working Alone is not meant to be a cocky or self-aggrandizing statement at all. No magician truly works alone. We are indebted to the magicians who have come before us and blazed the magical trail so to speak, with their ideas, inventions and methods".

After Working Alone it was a pleasure to have Bob (and his cohort Ed Bordo) watch and critique my performance. And critique is what is needed if we want to improve our performances. When can only get this from another magician who knows what to watch for and can offer helpful suggestions that will help become better performers. If you can't attend one of Bob's Workshops, you can always get together with some local magicians and perform and critique each other with the ultimate goal being improving your act, character and overall performance.
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Re: Directors Help?

Postby amakar » December 4th, 2002, 2:15 pm

Does Bob Fitch offer any publications that address theatrical performances, premise, plot, etc?

Andy

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 4th, 2002, 3:43 pm

Jonathan let the genii out of the bottle; what a wonderful 'thread' of responses. Obviously hit a chord; with few exceptions,mostly recent (Ortiz Book, Strong Magic, Derren Brown's new book, Carney's up and coming book--Fitzgee over fifty years ago, and always Eugene Burger --who always seemed so beneficient till read that above note) when has there been a wealth of interest in preentation vs. ''moves' and just learning the trick ("What's 'new'")

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Robert Kane » December 4th, 2002, 5:45 pm

Hi Martin J: I don't mean for my comments to be construed as an attack or criticism of Eugene Burger. They are not and I did learn from Eugene.

I did want to share a cautionary tale for anyone seeking direction.

Direction is a good thing, but it can be painful to any ego. As Whit Haydn aptly stated, you have to swallow your ego at the door. I should have done that and now I know better.

Hope that makes better sense. Regards, Robert Kane :)

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 4th, 2002, 7:04 pm

Originally posted by MartinJ:
...let the genii out of the bottle...a wealth of interest in preentation vs. ''moves' and just learning the trick ("What's 'new'")
That 'genii' has demands of its own. Spent about three hours last night in discussion of a presentation of the 'six card repeat'. This after a new premise for presentation and most of the plotting and climax were established.

There is much to be done in creating a presentation piece that engages the audience. Impressing, amusing and startling people is just the 'tip of the iceberg' in this art.

We have much to learn from what's in the bottle labled 'presentation'. Be careful what you wish for, you may wind up staying up all night trying to assimilate it. :D
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby amakar » December 4th, 2002, 7:23 pm

Jonathan -

What was the premise behind the Six Card Repeat and what was the ending?

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 4th, 2002, 8:43 pm

Bob,
Kind of you to point out the positives. However, if the role of performing magician is one that can be critique, can one then not also critiqe the the abilities of the techer in tghe role of teacher. Maybe 'teachers' should take courses on teaching. That role has it own sets of demands for quality performance. Not everygood actor is a good acting teacher Why should every good performing magician believe he is ipso facto a great teacher unless he has studed the art of teaching -- as directors,I believe, have. (although guys like Sandy Mizener, Lee Strasburg a bit less so, sadistically reveled in their own megalomania and enjoyed handing out abuse--hell, isn't that the purview of The Great Man?
I believe that any subject can be taught to anyone is some wonderfully ego-enhancing manner. If you can't, get out of that end of the business, one is not being paid for his own aggrandizement and being 'one up' by putting the other 'one-down'.
Marty

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 4th, 2002, 9:59 pm

Originally posted by MartinJ:
Maybe 'teachers' should take courses on teaching. That role has it own sets of demands for quality performance.
There is a field of study that prepares educators. The required topics include classroom management, course preparation, lesson planning and MANY MANY workshops on communication skills. Also much field work in classrooms.

It is quite a field of study. There is much information about this on the web for review.
:) -Jon
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 11th, 2002, 8:18 am

I wanted to let amakar know a bit more about Bob Fitch, since he/she asked about what Bob has published.

You can read a very good example of Bob's writing on his website www.fitchmagic.com.

Bob's approach is one of "doing", rather than "thinking about." You do something, review it (and have it reviewed by independent eyes) decide what might make it better, then you do it again. You keep doing it until you have it where you like it and then you start doing it for an actual audience and seeing what they like and don't like, and you begin to make changes based on their reactions. You spend a lot less time thinking and a lot more doing. I know that magic theory can be fun, but I have found that when I really want something to improve, "doing" is a much more effective way. I've just updated my signature line, so don't think it is directed towards you or anyone else personally. : )
Mark Phillips

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Pete Biro » December 11th, 2002, 10:33 am

And of course Ricky Jay has a director, David Mamet. Can't be all bad. ;)
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Re: Directors Help?

Postby amakar » December 11th, 2002, 10:59 am

Thinair -

Thanks for the feedback.
I visited the sight and found the Why a Director article informative.

To date, I've only found one source that successfully combines magic with the elements of acting, character, premise, and drama. It is a rare find for someone to have both skills as a talented magician and a talented writer/director.

Some of the material appearing in the magic market today is touting the "Professional Performance Script". However, I'm finding few have the aspects of actual theatre, premise, or unity. The majority of it is simply Show and Tell....(insert Sleeping ZZZs here)

Just look at your local magic club. Next time someone performs an effect, take a look around and notice the number of people not paying attention or even worse...sleeping! (I saw it last night at a local IBM meeting when several performers entertained the group). Watch the reaction from the same people when someone performs a non-Show and Tell Trick. Their eyes open when the effect has a premise and has the correct points of drama.

If there were more resources like the one I found at www.thinklikeaconjurer.com or the one you suggested (www.fitchmagic.com), the art of Magic would certainly be raised to a higher level in the entertainment industry. After all, we're supposed to be able to do the impossible!

If anyone has any other references, please let me know.

Andy

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Re: Directors Help?

Postby Pete Biro » December 11th, 2002, 12:01 pm

There is a big difference between "guys that do tricks at magic club meetings" and those that are serious about performing and advancing their skills, price, etc.

Several things to consider:

Character. Who do you want to be onstage? Mick Jagger, David Copperfield, Lance?

Wrong. Be you, or whatever character you can do that is unique to you.

Wardrobe:

So important. Peter Pit used to help lots of magicians around the Castle. One in particular was Mike Caveney.

Look at the really successful magicians. S&R, McBride, P&T -- all distinctive wardrobes.

Lighting: (I don't know this field, but it is important that it work, be good and SIMPLE... nothing like going into a venue and spending two hours getting the lights right and then a bozo forgets the cues!)

Shimada told me it took him a long time to figure that one out and worked out a SIMPLE setup and minimum cueing.

Music:

A whole area to get help with.

:rolleyes:
Stay tooned.

amakar
Posts: 19
Joined: January 25th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Directors Help?

Postby amakar » December 11th, 2002, 3:18 pm

Hi Pete -

I agree there is a difference between the hobbyist and the professional performer. However, that shouldn't be an excuse for a lack of quality entertainment. I empathize for the audiences that sit through some of these performances.

I read about how a hobbyist performs for the same audience and needs to offer many effects. A professional performs the same effects for a many different people.

However, the professional and hobbyist start from the same base. I've seen many "professionals" in the local, magic "mainstream" and televised markets bore an audience to death. Irrespective of your magic-derived income, the effect itself should be entertaining.

Creating a character that is interesting to the audience is definitely an important feature.
I enjoy watching P&T because of the contrast in characters.

However, an entertaining show that includes costumes, music and lighting all build upon a presentation that has a premise, plot, and drama.

How many of you have wondered why an effect didn't go over the way it was planned or yields uneven results? The reason may be in the original premise of the effect.

Check out this thread by Paul Chosse in the Magic Cafe. He contributes a great presentation on the $100 Bill Switch that combines magic with an entertaining theatrical presentation.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view ... 7&start=30

If you read the comments after his posting, you'll see it received GREAT reactions by the people reading the post. They didn't even see the effect!

I've found the audiences and the performer enjoy the magic experience much more. I look forward to seeing more of this approach and presentation in the current magic scene and other magic publications.

Andy

Guest

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Guest » December 11th, 2002, 3:19 pm

Some teachers don't know how to teach but yet they become teachers? Teaching poorly and depriving us of knowledge.

so how do we know that the Magicians at Lectures are giving us the correct information (I wonder if anyone taught them how to teach?)

Some people are afraid of change and never change. They fear change.
some people want to stay right in the same spot they are, where it is safe.
They don't even know that they are afraid of change. And they MISS out on all the fun!

How do we know who is a professional magician (professional entertainer, that is what magicians do, right).
I have never seen any magician on "E!" or "Entertainment tonight,"
those are just some of the shows that have Professional entertainer, being interviewed and shoing clips of their latest movie.

Why is it that you don't see any magicians on those shows?

just somthing to think about...
but just for fun, can any one try to answer...

Chuck

Jonathan Townsend
Posts: 8704
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Westchester, NY
Contact:

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Jonathan Townsend » December 11th, 2002, 3:30 pm

Originally posted by Chuck Stroud:
Some teachers don't know how to teach but yet they become teachers?
Pedagogy, epistomology, ontology...

Solipsism will get you anywhere you imagine, though perhaps not an audience.

Sophistry will get you through the day, though you may find your bridges burnt.

As to the E! question: Entertainment of the scale presented on E! is corporate funded and impersonal. Mechanical Animals had that right. For the most part magic is much to personal and human to make a good feature on E! Same as the rest of the arts like poetry, painting, sculpture etc..

Drink your Coke/Pepsi and watch commercials!
Mundus vult decipi -per Caleb Carr's story Killing Time

Dave Egleston
Posts: 429
Joined: January 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm
Location: Ceres, Ca.

Re: Directors Help?

Postby Dave Egleston » December 11th, 2002, 3:33 pm

[QUOTE] so how do we know that the Magicians at Lectures are giving us the correct information (I wonder if anyone taught them how to teach?)

Huh?

Chuck - Are you setting us up for another Promo?

Dave


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