Help With Crediting?

[David Acer]

Once again, I must ask the esteemed readers and writers on the monumentally prestigious Genii Forum if they might be able to assist with a few crediting issues for an upcoming book.

1) Can anyone tell me the publication year of the First Edition of Tarbell #7? (written by Harry Lorayne)
2) I seem to recall a trick from my childhood wherein soap (?) is applied to ones arm, invisibly spelling the name of a card or a person or whatever. Then, when ashes (?) are rubbed on the arm, the writing becomes visible. Does this actually exist, or am I having a stroke?
3) Who is the originator of Bank Nite?
4) Is there a clear originator of the Card Stab plot, and, other than John Kennedys Mid-Air Card Stab, can anyone direct me to any published versions? For some reason, Scarne keeps popping up in my head, but Im not sure why (maybe its a post-hypnotic suggestion - I did see Reveen recently).

And thats it! Any help would be appreciated.

[Steve V]

Howdy.

1) Can anyone tell me the publication year of the First Edition of Tarbell #7? (written by Harry Lorayne)
>>>I think 1972

2) I seem to recall a trick from my childhood wherein soap (?) is applied to one's arm, invisibly spelling the name of a card or a person or whatever. Then, when ashes (?) are rubbed on the arm, the writing becomes visible. Does this actually exist, or am I having a stroke?

>>Yep, I use to do it. I don't know if I learned it from anything but I read Walter Gibsons book on Houdini about his encounter with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle so I use to use clear finger nail polish then I think I may have read about using soap in a book, I really don't remember. The late 70's were hard on my brain cells.

3) Who is the originator of Bank Nite?

>> Not me....unless it was 1981, I don't remember what I did in 1981.

4) Is there a clear originator of the Card Stab plot, and, other than John Kennedy's Mid-Air Card Stab, can anyone direct me to any published versions? For some reason, Scarne keeps popping up in my head, but I'm not sure why (maybe it's a post-hypnotic suggestion - I did see Reveen recently).

>>Again, unless it 1981 it wasn't me.

Steve V

[Eric Rose]

Jules Lenier did a monograph on Bank Nite in the 1970s and he traced the trick back to a 1927 Tom Sellers booklet called Tricks That Work.

Sorry, Steve V, it doesn't look like you can claim that one. However, I have it on good account that you wrote the song "Billy Jean" in 1981 and promptly sold it to Micheal Jackson for 1.8 million dollars. Are you sure you don't remember where you put the money?

[Steve V]

I could have written Billy Jean. All I can tell you is my Navy records say I was in Charleston, SC in 1981 and I don't remember going there, and with the exception of one day at a bar called Ricky G's I don't remember being there, and I don't remember leaving there but I do recall being on a bus to Kings Bay Georgia. I don't think I did much magic that year.
Steve V

[Guest]

>>>1) Can anyone tell me the publication year of the First Edition of Tarbell #7? (written by Harry Lorayne)?

It is indeed 1972, as my copy says on its publication info page.

>>>2) I seem to recall a trick from my childhood wherein soap (?) is applied to ones arm, invisibly spelling the name of a card or a person or whatever. Then, when ashes (?) are rubbed on the arm, the writing becomes visible. Does this actually exist, or am I having a stroke?

I, too, have known and used this trick off and on for some 40 years, but I don't know where I learned it. I can only find one reference to it in my library, a juvenile book that I recently bought on the used marketplace for the future of my young son. The book is the GOLDEN BOOK OF MAGIC (1964) by Clayton Rawson, and the trick is on page 97.

>>>3) Who is the originator of Bank Nite?

Ganson's ART OF CLOSE-UP MAGIC mentions that the trick is of English origin, if that is any help. Tarbell #5 has a version (1927?), and there are two other versions in later volumes.

>>>4) Is there a clear originator of the Card Stab plot, and, other than John Kennedys Mid-Air Card Stab, can anyone direct me to any published versions? For some reason, Scarne keeps popping up in my head, but Im not sure why

Nate Leipzig taught his early 20th century version to Dai Vernon, who had Lewis Ganson transcribe it exactly as {Vernon remembered that) Leipzig performed it. Find this in the DAI VERNON BOOK OF MAGIC. There is also a "New Version" found on page 251 of GREATER MAGIC.

Hope these references are of some assistance.

Jon

[Craig Matsuoka]

Ash Writing on Arm: John White's "Hocus Pocus" (1715?/1718?). The White description uses wine. "The Conjuror's Repository" (1803) recommends urine. I don't know who first decided to use soap later on. Must have been some guy who tried the urine thing.

Card Stab: Is there anything to the claim that Dario Paini came up with it first? (b.1867-d.1935)

[Guest]

See John Bannon's SMOKE AND MIRRORS for "an impromtu, regular-deck method for Kennedy's Mid-Air Card Stab." The effect is "Steel Convergence" pg. 118.

Brian B

[Matthew Field]

Originally posted by Craig Matsuoka:
"The Conjuror's Repository" (1803) recommends urine.

Hey, Acer, this just might be the theme you've been looking for in your new book and video!

Matt Field

[Guest]

Tarbell Vol.1, page 189 describes a numerical (not card) revelation using "...milk, lemon juice, or you may use a piece of soap." No credit for the idea is given. --Asrah

[Pete Biro]

Seems to me Dick Zimmerman did an "in air" impromptu card stab.... although it may have been with a car antenae type pointer.

[David Acer]

Thanks, folks. You've all been very helpful (except for Matt).

[Bill Mullins]

Originally posted by Craig Matsuoka:
"The Conjuror's Repository" (1803) recommends urine.

This could be a follow-up effect to Mr. Mysto's "Any Fluid Called For".

[Steve V]

I was reading Theater of the Mind last night and he references a Tom Sellers as the creator of Bank Night.
Steve V

[Guest]

That'd presumably be this Tom Sellers http://www.conjuring.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tom0.htm

Dave

[Guest]

That seems like a very slim booklet: "Tricks with Urine." I can't think of any others! :D

[opie]

I cannot locate them right now, but I seem to recall that the writing on the arm with soap bit was in Leeming's little book that we all probably read at the library and discounted (Fun with Magic, or something like that)....You might also check Martin Gardner's Encyclopedia of Impromptu Magic...

....I haven't done the trick in years, but, the last time I did it, I used chap stick instead of soap....

opie

[Bob L]

2) I seem to recall a trick from my childhood wherein soap (?) is applied to ones arm, invisibly spelling the name of a card or a person or whatever. Then, when ashes (?) are rubbed on the arm, the writing becomes visible. Does this actually exist, or am I having a stroke?

I don't think you're having a stroke, but you might be having a Blaine Hemorrhage.

[Bob L]

That seems like a very slim booklet: "Tricks with Urine. I can't think of any others!"

Well, there's a variation on the Lota Bowl. It's a great bar trick but the cost of the beer "setup" gets prohibitive.

[Guest]

David Acer writes: "2) I seem to recall a trick from my childhood wherein soap (?) is applied to one's arm, invisibly spelling the name of a card or a person or whatever. Then, when ashes (?) are rubbed on the arm, the writing becomes visible. Does this actually exist, or am I having a stroke?"

No, you're not having a stroke; it actually exists and has for many, many years.

The first time I came across it was in a John Scarne book, published sometime in the early '50s, I believe; it was a routine by the late Canadian magician Charlie Roe, who had been doing the trick since about the First World War -- so it's at least 80 years old, and every bit as effective today as it was back then.
And it was old when Charlie Roe was doing it, he told me (about 40 years ago!)
cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com

[Guest]

Hey David,

Re: the card stab, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned "Dai Vernon's tribute to Max Malini." Malini certainly popularized the plot (and Bob Sheets continues to do it justice.) Also, Scotty York had a variation of the Kennedy Mid-Air stab in one of his books or lecture notes. (I'm in the process of moving my office or I'd look it up for you.)

Mark

[DChung]

Originally posted by David Acer:
...
4) Is there a clear originator of the Card Stab plot, and, other than John Kennedy?s Mid-Air Card Stab, can anyone direct me to any published versions? For some reason, Scarne keeps popping up in my head, but I?m not sure why (maybe it?s a post-hypnotic suggestion - I did see Reveen recently).

And that?s it! Any help would be appreciated. [/QB]

David,

I don't know if there's a clear originator, but Ortiz (in Annotated Erdnase) cites Charles Bertram's "Isn't in Wonderful?", published in 1899.

Cheers,
Derrick

[Pete McCabe]

Steven Minch's Classic Carneycopia contains "Final Trace," in which the deck is wrapped in a cocktail napkin and vanished, whereupon (rereading Minch's prose always elevates my own, if only for a few minutes) the napkin is burned and the ashes are rubbed on the arm, and "the name of the card mysteriously appears in ashy gray writing."

Steven references the trick thusly:

The latter effect, known for centuries as "The Great Dictionary Trick", has been a popular standard since the early eighteenth century. Originally a chosen word, which was forced, was written on a piece of paper, then burned. The ashes from the paper were rubbed on the performer's arm to produce the selected word.

I for one never knew that the original had such a strong logic to the plot. (As does Carney's handling.)

[David Acer]

Thanks folks - much appreciated! On a related note, now that Eric Rose and Steve V have been kind enough to direct me to the Bank Night routine by Tom Sellers, does anyone know who originated the idea of putting lottery tickets in all the envelopes to alleviate the potential "sting" of the magician winning? I am aware that Lee Earle makes use of this ploy, but I have also heard tell that the idea belongs to Richard Osterlind.

[Michael Jay]

While this is late, very late, the credit for "Ashes on the Arm," goes to John White in the year 1718. It can be found in "White's Hocus Pocus."

Mike.

[Guest]

Another trick with urine: Walk into a public restroom with a mouthful of gatorade and a classic Ghost Glass gimmick. I really shouldn't have to explain this further.

[Guest]

You could also just hang around and wait for a Michael Ammar "Easy to Master Urine Miracles" series.

[Andy Hurst]

Originally posted by David Acer:
Does anyone know who originated the idea of putting lottery tickets in all the envelopes to alleviate the potential "sting" of the magician winning? I am aware that Lee Earle makes use of this ploy, but I have also heard tell that the idea belongs to Richard Osterlind.

On the L&L DVD's, Richard Osterlind says that the idea for the lottery tickets is his and explains that someone else did it too and claimed it but that it's all been cleared up and the idea is his (Osterlinds).

Andy.

[David Acer]

Thanks again, folks. I'm grateful for the assistance, and all these suggestions for tricks with urine show me that the future of magic is in good hands.

Before we leave the subject entirely, however, I WILL say that there IS precedent for bathroom-based magic tricks. Meir Yedid published TWO of them in his 1986 book STAGE STUFF, a production of toilet paper ("Last Sheet") and an appearing toilet brush ("Appearing Toilet Brush"). Jay Sankey also created an effect called "Crapentro" in which something horrible penetrates a toilet lid. The method is so devious, however, that I actually wrote the effect up for CHANNEL ONE, then decided the world wasn't ready for tricks with feces.

[Eric Rose]

Just knowing that there is an unpublished method for Crapentro will be enough for it to become the thing of legends. In 30 years there will be entire legions of new magicians trying to determine the real work for Sankey/Acer's "51 Feces North"

[Jonathan Townsend]

Originally posted by Eric Rose:
... In 30 years there will be entire legions of new magicians trying to determine the real work for Sankey/Acer's "51 Feces North"

And to think, 100 years ago it was Ramsay's Cylinder and Coins routine, 30 years ago it was the retention pass, today it's Mickey's retention pass... makes me wonder if we are going to ever get the biddet over here in America.

[Craig Matsuoka]

Originally posted by David Acer:
The method is so devious, however, that I actually wrote the effect up for CHANNEL ONE,

I know it's wrong to fish for methods, but somebody's gotta ask. Does it involve a DeKolta poo?

[David Regal]

Originally posted by David Groves:
That seems like a very slim booklet: "Tricks with Urine." I can't think of any others! :D

My understanding is that at the next history conference there will be a performance of "The Hooker Floating Card".

[Richard Kaufman]

I believe you can read certain types of invisible ink with pee.

[Steve Bryant]

But the penmanship is a real challenge.

[Matthew Field]

Originally posted by Steve Bryant:
But the penmanship is a real challenge.

Excellent, Steve.

Matt Field

[Steve Snediker]

OK guys...I'm crying from laughing out loud...at the office...how shall I explain this to the boss?

Interesting combination effects now seem possible -- like a card stab with something other than a sword or dagger. Or a swami gimmick for your...

I know, I know...

Nose in the corner, Mr. Snediker!

Thanks for the yucks!

Steve Snediker
wondermaker@mac.com