ERDNASE

Discuss general aspects of Genii.
Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 2nd, 2017, 1:59 pm

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:No--blisters do not create smooth hands.

Agreed, another reason why Sanders is an unlikely Erdnase. According to Smith he had skin smoother than any woman.

Wrong--blisters heal and smooth hands become smooth once again. If Sanders was Erdnase, his hands would have had plenty of time to heal smoothly when he met Smith. That would still make him a likely candidate.


Leonard Hevia wrote:In effect, Gallaway's writings would look more like Erdnase's own work than Erdnase himself.

Very happy that you agree that Gallaway writes like Erdnase. I am counting now at least 5, excluding myself, who stated on this forum that Gallaway writes like Erdnase. Given the few people who post here that could very well be a majority.

If you submitted Gallaway's writing samples to Dr. Olsson that postdate The Expert, then I believe it is possible that Gallaway could have copied Erdnase's writing style. Note that I used the helping verb "would" in this instance. Your selective quoting cannot erase that. You are now resorting to using parts of my post to create the illusion that I buy your nonsense. I don't. Such high school clownishness and buffoonery on your part do nothing for your credibility--or what is left of it.



Leonard Hevia wrote:I have yet to see examples of Gallaway's humorous work, his puns,...

Yet another thing you would know if you would have read my wonderful ebook "The Hunt for Erdnase: and the path to Edward Gallaway". Here a little quote from something that has been written about Gallaway:
Such a trio as Tom Quin, Theodore Regensteiner, and Edward Gallaway surpass anything in wit and humor that Flo Ziegfeld or Earl Caroll so far has produced.

It would be great if Demarest would have his personal opinion confirmed by an independent linguist. I did that. It is not only my personal opinion, and those of several who have posted here, and many more who have not posted here, that Gallaway sounds like Erdnase, but also a renowned and recognized authority on forensic linguistics - Dr. Olsson. Unfortunately he also found Sanders is a most unlikely Erdnase. He feels he cannot be Erdnase. Please do check out his credentials, do read his books. I think for somebody like yourself who is so keen on scholarly inquiry you will understand that it is very important to get independent confirmation.


Your wonderful ebook? You are giving yourself a two thumbs up for your own work? Imagine a reviewer in a publication reviewing his own product. Ridiculous isn't it?

Demarest included his own personal opinion and samples of Sanders' writing. The reader is left to make his or her own conclusions about those samples. I have included some of Demarest's samples here on the Forum. Chris--do you refute any of those Sanders writing samples? Since I have not seen a refutation on your part, then you agree that Sanders wrote in a style similar to Erdnase. Demarest has not bothered with a professional linguist probably because he doesn't need one. Sanders' writing samples are enough evidence of writing similarities between both authors. You don't need a doctor to point that out.

And what exactly did Gallaway produce that was humorous? Can you provide at least one example to confirm this reviewer's opinion?

Brad Henderson
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » December 2nd, 2017, 2:38 pm

lybrary wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:the point is if it's common for books to be taken by print shop workers

It wasn't common before Erdnase, it wasn't common during Erdnase's time, it wasn't common after Erdnase, it is not common today. It only happens if a worker has an interest in the subject. I have spoken with several printers and people working in print shops about that. One was a 97 year old son of a print shop owner. His father operated a shop back during the early nineteen-hundreds. His father even printed a gambling book he gave to me as present. It was not common, customary, nor did it happen often.

Brad Henderson wrote:again chris, if you don't want to be associated with a book - why would you put your bookplate in it?

I am sure he didn't care what happened after his death. As long as he lived it was well hidden in his library. He pasted bookplates into all books in his library. We don't know when he pasted these bookplates. Perhaps he pasted them just short before his death. We do not know. By that time he might not have cared anymore.

Brad Henderson wrote:you yourself are using the presence of the book to tie him to it.

I am not using it as my primary argument. I think it is a further confirming fact that supports Gallaway's case. My primary arguments are his proven contact with McKinney, and his proven writing and publishing similarities with Erdnase. The presence of the book shows among other things that he was interested in the subject. We can also assume that an author would keep a copy of the books he wrote.



NOT if he wanted to distance himself from accusations of authorship

and the idea he kept this copy locked in a safe hidden under his bed is silly.

the presence of the book makes me think he wasn't erdnase. if he wrote them because he needed the money he would have sold the book

erdnase wasn't a sentimentalist.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 2nd, 2017, 3:03 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:You are giving yourself a two thumbs up for your own work? Ridiculous isn't it?

Yes I do, both thumbs up. And if I would have more than two thumbs they would all be pointing up. My ebook is great. I think it is the best work on Erdnase. Strictly speaking it is the ONLY work on Erdnase. At least I wrote and read it. You have not read it. So who exactly is ridiculous? Are you talking about something you don't know? Ah, yes you do.

Brad Henderson wrote:NOT if he wanted to distance himself from accusations of authorship

Gallaway was never accused of being the author during his lifetime. Therefore no need to distance himself. He simply kept it hidden.

Brad Henderson wrote:and the idea he kept this copy locked in a safe hidden under his bed is silly.

Not under his bed in his library. You know shelves, books, perhaps boxes, that kind of thing. You may have heard about it. Probably not. You don't strike me as the reading type.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » December 2nd, 2017, 3:34 pm

and we wonder who dustin was referring to when he was talking about men acting like children

chris, if your 'scholarship' cannot withstand scrutiny then perhaps we shouldn't use that word to describe it.

how would his being identified in his life time be relevant? if we establish he didn't want to be identified then that suggests he would take certain steps to prevent it.

not leave clues - like pasting your name in the book

and if this is some death bed confession, one would think he would have been a rich more direct.

but rather than acknowledge the weakness of your 'case' you invent scenarios and call names

but hey, i think you could convince mr keyes of your position. you both seem to be blinded by the same ego driven delusions.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 2nd, 2017, 3:50 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:how would his being identified in his life time be relevant? if we establish he didn't want to be identified then that suggests he would take certain steps to prevent it.

Perhaps you didn't follow my drift. Here it is again spelled out for you. Erdnase did not want to associate himself with gambling and in particular with cheating for two obvious reasons:

1) If he would be known to cheat, or even suspected of skill with cards, it makes the cheating part impossible. Erdnase points this out in his book several times. That is why many cardsharks and other crooks use aliases. MFA used at least three or four we know of. It is a common modus operandi for advantage players.

2) Being known a gambler and even worse a cheater makes it hard to have a career outside of gambling. It leads people to not trust you, not hire you, not wanting to deal with you.

Those are all concerns during Erdnase's life. His public image. Not what he has in his home, or what people may find there after his death. I don't think he was particularly concerned whatever happened after he was dead.
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Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 2nd, 2017, 4:56 pm

lybrary wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:how would his being identified in his life time be relevant? if we establish he didn't want to be identified then that suggests he would take certain steps to prevent it.

Perhaps you didn't follow my drift. Here it is again spelled out for you. Erdnase did not want to associate himself with gambling and in particular with cheating for two obvious reasons:

1) If he would be known to cheat, or even suspected of skill with cards, it makes the cheating part impossible. Erdnase points this out in his book several times. That is why many cardsharks and other crooks use aliases. MFA used at least three or four we know of. It is a common modus operandi for advantage players.


I thought that (according to you) when he got married, he put all this behind him. That being the case, how is this relevant? By the time he published the book, he was out of the cheating business. I don't think this reason applies.

I am counting now at least 5, excluding myself, who stated on this forum that Gallaway writes like Erdnase. Given the few people who post here that could very well be a majority.

In the last week, 14 people have posted on this thread. Neither 5 nor 6 is a majority of that.
If you require further assistance with higher math, let us know.

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:I have yet to see examples of Gallaway's humorous work, his puns,...

Yet another thing you would know if you would have read my wonderful ebook "The Hunt for Erdnase: and the path to Edward Gallaway". Here a little quote from something that has been written about Gallaway:
Such a trio as Tom Quin, Theodore Regensteiner, and Edward Gallaway surpass anything in wit and humor that Flo Ziegfeld or Earl Caroll so far has produced.


That's a second-hand review in a house journal, hardly an unbiased opinion. Probably an example of "sucking up" (note that Regensteiner was President). But Leonard asked for examples, and this ain't it.

My ebook is great. I think it is the best work on Erdnase. Strictly speaking it is the ONLY work on Erdnase.

I'm not going to respond to this. The jokes, they write themselves.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 2nd, 2017, 5:04 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:In the last week, 14 people have posted on this thread. Neither 5 nor 6 is a majority of that.
If you require further assistance with higher math, let us know.

I will leave counting up to 14 to you. That is a task you seem you can handle, and it is an adequate use of your time. I will think of another task for you.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 2nd, 2017, 5:23 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:I thought that (according to you) when he got married, he put all this behind him. That being the case, how is this relevant? By the time he published the book, he was out of the cheating business. I don't think this reason applies.

It still applies. First, you don't want all those whom you have cheated come after you. Second, he may have wanted to keep himself a backdoor open, if he changed his mind and wanted to go back into cheating at a later time. You can also look at it from the other end. What would he have gained outing himself as a cardshark, or making it so easy that a child could figure it out? Nothing. Only troubles.
Last edited by lybrary on December 2nd, 2017, 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 2nd, 2017, 5:28 pm

The fact that Gallaway even owned a copy of The Expert can possibly disqualify him from Olsson's study. If the Gallaway writing samples submitted to Dr. Olsson are dated after the publication of Expert, then we can't be sure that its contents did not influence his writing style. If Gallaway is not Erdnase, then a certain degree of contamination from The Expert might well have crept into his composition skills.

Now if the Gallawy writing samples submitted to Dr. Olsson date to before the publication of The Expert, it would prove that he was not influenced in any way by this book.

The question here is: What is the publication date of the Gallaway writing samples that Dr. Olsson examined?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 2nd, 2017, 5:35 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:What is the publication date of the Gallaway writing samples that Dr. Olsson examined?

I am sure Mullins will figure it out for you, because you don't seem to be capable to even answer the most simple questions.
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Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 2nd, 2017, 5:43 pm

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:What is the publication date of the Gallaway writing samples that Dr. Olsson examined?

I am sure Mullins will figure it out for you, because you don't seem to be capable to even answer the most simple questions.


Translation: I'm not going to share the publication date of the Gallaway writing samples with you!

What simple questions have I failed to answer? Post them and I will attempt to answer.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 2nd, 2017, 5:47 pm

Leonard Hevia wrote:What simple questions have I failed to answer? Post them and I will attempt to answer.

I should put you and Bill into one class. Perhaps he can teach you to read your own posts, because sure as hell I can't.
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Leonard Hevia
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 2nd, 2017, 6:33 pm

An interesting item about Eugene Edwards, who Chris claims is a pseudonym for Edward Gallaway. In the first chapter of Jack Pots, Edwards explains "What is Poker--Its Origin, and Why We Like It." Discussing how America monopolizes the game, he disparages the Germans, British, and French as not nearly well suited for poker as Americans.

Since Gallaway spoke, read and wrote German fluently, went to a German school, had German relatives, and worked for a German newspaper, I wonder why he would say such a thing about his compatriots. Assuming that Edwards is Gallaway, of course.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » December 2nd, 2017, 7:04 pm

Oh, that means nothing! I am British and say rude things about the British all the time. And they say rude things about me. They are a most horrible race of people.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » December 2nd, 2017, 10:37 pm

lybrary wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:the point is if it's common for books to be taken by print shop workers

It wasn't common before Erdnase, it wasn't common during Erdnase's time, it wasn't common after Erdnase, it is not common today. It only happens if a worker has an interest in the subject. I have spoken with several printers and people working in print shops about that. One was a 97 year old son of a print shop owner. His father operated a shop back during the early nineteen-hundreds. His father even printed a gambling book he gave to me as present. It was not common, customary, nor did it happen often.

Alas, Chris is once again making absolute statements on topics he hasn’t studied. If he were familiar with the printing and publishing histories of Timperley, Nichols, and Gaskell (to name only a few), then he would know that that there was a very long tradition in England and Europe of journeymen receiving copies of books they printed, dating back to at least the early 1500s. In London, for example, it wasn’t simply a tradition – it was considered part of the printer’s wages. We know this because in 1635, the printer’s guild decided that shop owners could simply increase wages by a specified amount in lieu of giving each printer a copy of the book (in sheets) as compensation. And we know that, as late as the 1820s, Parisien printers were still selling their free “copy books” (as they were called) for cash on the street.

I raised this tradition simply as a possible explanation for how Gallaway (apparently) accumulated such a large library. But it certainly needn’t be the only explanation, or even the correct explanation. For the fact remains that we apparently know nothing of the precise habits and customs of the McKinney print shop, and Chris’ conversations with the 97 yo son of a printer or any other old printer who never worked in the McKinney shop won’t help to shed light on that question.

It was also customary for 19th and 20th century print shops to retain a file copy of nearly everything they printed, and after the McKinney bankruptcy, it doesn’t seem far-fetched to wonder if perhaps Gallaway culled the more substantial books from those files after McKinney closed. So why would Gallaway accumulate books on a wide variety of subjects, some of which he had little to no interest in? There’s a term for that which we still use today: bibliophile.

There are other misstatements and examples of chopped-logic in Chris’ replies to some of my posts, but addressing them to promote an honest and objective dialogue with him really seems fruitless at this point.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 2nd, 2017, 10:41 pm

For Leonard, and everyone else who didn't get the book, here is what Olsson examined.

Edward Gallaway: Estimating for Printing (1927)
William Hilliar: The Modern Magician’s Handbook (1902)
August Roterberg: New Era Card Tricks (1897)
Wilbur E. Sanders: The framing of rectangular shaft sets (1904) and Mine Timbering (1899*). Diary entries from 1876 to 1881.
C. H. Wilson: The 52 wonders (1877)

*Sanders wrote several works that were titled or partially titled "Mine Timbering". I'm guessing that the 1899 essay is what Olsson reviewed. Also, "At a late stage in compiling this report, [Olsson] was sent a number of letters written by Sanders."

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 3rd, 2017, 12:13 am

The copyright application is in care of James McKinney, but doesn't say that he is a printer or that the address, 73 Plymouth, is his business address. But the published register of copyrighted works says "Chicago, J. McKinney & co., printers". I wonder how the copyright office came to make that change/addition.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 3rd, 2017, 8:32 am

magicam wrote:...and Chris’ conversations with the 97 yo son of a printer or any other old printer who never worked in the McKinney shop won’t help to shed light on that question.

It is certainly more relevant than your examples from 16th and 17th century France and England.

magical wrote:So why would Gallaway accumulate books on a wide variety of subjects, some of which he had little to no interest in?

You are a real expert on Gallaway. Can you tell us which subjects you mean? The ones you seem to know he had no interest in?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 3rd, 2017, 8:35 am

Bill Mullins wrote:For Leonard, and everyone else who didn't get the book, here is what Olsson examined.

Edward Gallaway: Estimating for Printing (1927)
William Hilliar: The Modern Magician’s Handbook (1902)
August Roterberg: New Era Card Tricks (1897)
Wilbur E. Sanders: The framing of rectangular shaft sets (1904) and Mine Timbering (1899*). Diary entries from 1876 to 1881.
C. H. Wilson: The 52 wonders (1877)

*Sanders wrote several works that were titled or partially titled "Mine Timbering". I'm guessing that the 1899 essay is what Olsson reviewed. Also, "At a late stage in compiling this report, [Olsson] was sent a number of letters written by Sanders."

See, I told you I will find another task for you. You will get special credit for this one. I am really happy with your development.
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Brad Henderson
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » December 3rd, 2017, 10:58 am

lybrary wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:how would his being identified in his life time be relevant? if we establish he didn't want to be identified then that suggests he would take certain steps to prevent it.

Perhaps you didn't follow my drift. Here it is again spelled out for you. Erdnase did not want to associate himself with gambling and in particular with cheating for two obvious reasons:

1) If he would be known to cheat, or even suspected of skill with cards, it makes the cheating part impossible. Erdnase points this out in his book several times. That is why many cardsharks and other crooks use aliases. MFA used at least three or four we know of. It is a common modus operandi for advantage players.

2) Being known a gambler and even worse a cheater makes it hard to have a career outside of gambling. It leads people to not trust you, not hire you, not wanting to deal with you.

Those are all concerns during Erdnase's life. His public image. Not what he has in his home, or what people may find there after his death. I don't think he was particularly concerned whatever happened after he was dead.


oh, i followed

the problem is, if you don't want to be known as a card cheat, you don't keep books on the matter in your house and you certainly don't put your name in them.

i would say at that era though ones lineage was taken into account. the son of a cheat likely wouldn't advertise that either.

so again your do the washuber shuffle - inventing baseless scenarios that prevent your claims from falling apart

if someone cared about their reputation in life, whose to say they wouldn't still care about how people thought of them after being dead?

and i can't imagine a dying man searching through boxes to make sure is book plate was finally pasted into the book, now that he knew his secret wouldn't matter.

also, the idea that having a book proves he 'had an interest' in the topic is over stated.

i have many books that i bought on a whim. i have a book on training gorillas for example. had i ever an interest in training gorillas ? nope. but upon seeing the book i thought 'hey who knew there was a book on training gorillas, i think i'll buy that'

so my library has a book on gorilla training

if you found that would you go on record proclaiming me a gorilla trainer?

because that's what you've done for your candidate.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » December 3rd, 2017, 11:16 am

I have now suddenly become fascinated with gorilla training as a result of Brad's comment. I didn't even know there was such a thing. Somehow this video seems relevant as it is perfectly obvious to me from this thread that it is not just gorillas who act like kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LILYniR-CYM

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 3rd, 2017, 11:58 am

Brad Henderson wrote:the problem is, if you don't want to be known as a card cheat, you don't keep books on the matter in your house ...

We have proof of the opposite. Take MFA who was a cardshark, who clearly did not want to be associated with being one, because he used several aliases, but he traveled with literature on card sharping which was found in his steamer trunks. Not only did MFA have such books he traveled with them. Erdnase was well read, he certainly had books on that subject, as did Gallaway. Having them in his house in his library with his bookplate is no problem. But you are free to search for Erdnase among those people who had none such books in their home. Good luck and let us know how your search is going.

Brad Henderson wrote:if someone cared about their reputation in life, whose to say they wouldn't still care about how people thought of them after being dead?

Edward Gallaway did not have a testament or last will. That is a sign that he didn't care much about what happened after his death.

Brad Henderson wrote:and i can't imagine a dying man searching through boxes to make sure is book plate was finally pasted into the book, now that he knew his secret wouldn't matter.

When he pasted those bookplates we have no idea. For Expert it could have been anytime from 1902 to 1930.

Brad Henderson wrote:also, the idea that having a book proves he 'had an interest' in the topic is over stated.

i have many books that i bought on a whim. i have a book on training gorillas for example. had i ever an interest in training gorillas ? nope. but upon seeing the book i thought 'hey who knew there was a book on training gorillas, i think i'll buy that'

so my library has a book on gorilla training

if you found that would you go on record proclaiming me a gorilla trainer?

No I would not, but if I found for example other books on animal training in your library it would become more likely. And if you would perform a number called "The Trained Gorilla" it would become even more likely. Gallaway not only had Expert in his library he had several other relevant books, too, for example gambling books. He also performed a stage number titled "The Magic Wand". You are making the same error my pupil Bill Mullins makes too often. You take one single fact and you look at it in isolation. That is silly. I am sure you are capable to consider several facts in combination.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 3rd, 2017, 2:17 pm

I find it intriguing that in "The Divining Rod" Erdnase presents what we now consider the Malini Card Stab as an expedition to mine precious metals:

"Prominent among these superior accomplishments was the mysterious power of divining the presence of water or minerals that lay hidden far under the ground."

"...I have mapped out a plan of experiment and study that will in time, I trust enable me to give once more to the world complete and scientific data for positively ascertaining the immediate whereabouts of such metals as gold, silver, or copper..."

It would be a presentation that a mining engineer certainly would have imagined. I suppose that Sanders wished he had a diving rod that could locate precious metals. It took him a while to find them.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » December 3rd, 2017, 3:14 pm

lybrary wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:the problem is, if you don't want to be known as a card cheat, you don't keep books on the matter in your house ...

We have proof of the opposite. Take MFA who was a cardshark, who clearly did not want to be associated with being one, because he used several aliases, but he traveled with literature on card sharping which was found in his steamer trunks. Not only did MFA have such books he traveled with them. Erdnase was well read, he certainly had books on that subject, as did Gallaway. Having them in his house in his library with his bookplate is no problem. But you are free to search for Erdnase among those people who had none such books in their home. Good luck and let us know how your search is going.

Brad Henderson wrote:if someone cared about their reputation in life, whose to say they wouldn't still care about how people thought of them after being dead?

Edward Gallaway did not have a testament or last will. That is a sign that he didn't care much about what happened after his death.

Brad Henderson wrote:and i can't imagine a dying man searching through boxes to make sure is book plate was finally pasted into the book, now that he knew his secret wouldn't matter.

When he pasted those bookplates we have no idea. For Expert it could have been anytime from 1902 to 1930.

Brad Henderson wrote:also, the idea that having a book proves he 'had an interest' in the topic is over stated.

i have many books that i bought on a whim. i have a book on training gorillas for example. had i ever an interest in training gorillas ? nope. but upon seeing the book i thought 'hey who knew there was a book on training gorillas, i think i'll buy that'

so my library has a book on gorilla training

if you found that would you go on record proclaiming me a gorilla trainer?

No I would not, but if I found for example other books on animal training in your library it would become more likely. And if you would perform a number called "The Trained Gorilla" it would become even more likely. Gallaway not only had Expert in his library he had several other relevant books, too, for example gambling books. He also performed a stage number titled "The Magic Wand". You are making the same error my pupil Bill Mullins makes too often. You take one single fact and you look at it in isolation. That is silly. I am sure you are capable to consider several facts in combination.


the presence of cheating books my MFA proves only that 1) either he didn't care who knew or 2) if he did, he wasn't too smart about it. and as you don't believe him to be erdnase it would make sense that he didn't have the capability of thinking matter through so deeply.

2) you know what, i do have other books on animal training. just not gorillas.

why do i have them? no idea.

i'm still not an animal trainer.

3) where are all of gallaways magic books?

i remain unconvinced.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 3rd, 2017, 3:36 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:the presence of cheating books my MFA proves only that 1) either he didn't care who knew

Why did he then use several aliases?

Brad Henderson wrote:or 2) if he did, he wasn't too smart about it. and as you don't believe him to be erdnase it would make sense that he didn't have the capability of thinking matter through so deeply.

Why would Erdnase be the only one who can think through such matters? And why do you assume that Erdnase was never making any mistakes?

Brad Henderson wrote:2) you know what, i do have other books on animal training. just not gorillas.
why do i have them? no idea.
i'm still not an animal trainer.

You also perform a number titled "The Trained Gorilla"?
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Brad Henderson » December 3rd, 2017, 7:42 pm

1) so everyone who uses an alias is a card cheat, because that's the only reason a criminal would.

and clearly mfa wasn't all that smart if he kept needing aliases. seems like that proves carrying incriminating books with your name in it isn't a thing a smart cheat should do.

2) erdnase could have made a mistake. but one so obvious it would lead you to discover him? i don't think so.

if a man wanted to remain unknown and did so successfully for over 120 years i don't think he would have written his name in the book from which he was avoiding connection.

that's like old man wiggins from the amusement park faking his own death, creating a decades long scam that forced the new land owners to sell the property, creating a legend of the amusement park ghost that was featured in dozens of news stories and tv programs but leaving a copy of the book "how to fake your death, create a decades long scam, and reclaim your land' on his nightstand WITH HIS NAME IN IT!!!!

not even a scooby doo villain is that simple
minded.

3) writing a play titled a magic wand doesn't mean you were a magician. it means he found a literary symbol that he wanted to employ.

but to your point, i have created at least two pieces which featured or were based on gorillas. one was a take off of an ernie kovacs bit and the other was for a halloween experience.

and yet, i have still never trained a gorilla. nor did my creation of each in any way relate to why i bought the book

rut ro, shaggy

seems like chris is on a wild goose chase again

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 3rd, 2017, 9:06 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:1) so everyone who uses an alias is a card cheat, because that's the only reason a criminal would.

No, but everybody who is a cardshark, like MFA, and who uses an alias wants to hide their identity. Kind of an obvious and straight forward conclusion.

Brad Henderson wrote:2) erdnase could have made a mistake.

Exactly, and not necessarily just one. But in all your argumentation you don't leave room for errors. You require that Erdnase acted perfectly in line with what you consider was the appropriate thing to do. Any other course of action and it can't be Erdnase. That is silly. Just look around yourself. Lots of very successful people who make gross errors of judgement. Erdnase wasn't a superhuman without any faults, or lapses in judgement, or errors.

Brad Henderson wrote:if a man wanted to remain unknown and did so successfully for over 120 years i don't think he would have written his name in the book from which he was avoiding connection.

See the point above. But beyond the fact that it could have been an error in judgement, I don't agree that it is in conflict with wanting to stay hidden when he pastes his bookplate into his book. Pasting your bookplate into a book isn't a statement of authorship. It is a statement of ownership which includes authors as small subgroup. Doing so doesn't automatically lead to detection, or poses a big risk of being outed, because it requires first that the book is discovered by people who want to expose you, which took more than 50 years from the day of publication. And then it needs the right people to connect the dots ... clearly that is not you, but others, and that took another 60+ years.

Brad Henderson wrote:3) writing a play titled a magic wand doesn't mean you were a magician.

It wasn't a play. It was a specialty number, but that is beyond my point. Again you make the old error of looking at one thing in isolation. Sure, just "The Magic Wand" title is not proof. But if you add it to the magic and gambling books Gallaway had in his library it supports the notion that he was interested in that subject. If you add the fact that he worked in circus sideshows which often included magic acts and thus likely puts him right next to magicians, it further supports the same idea. If you add that it would not be uncharacteristic for circus barkers to include a card trick as part of their oration, it also supports the idea that magic was likely part of what he was interested in. Magic is a performing art. Gallaway was a performer for circuses. While he did not have a regular number he performed inside the tent, a barker or orator or talker is a type of performer nevertheless. He is part of the troupe and presents an act in front of the tent to get people interested. To suggest that magic was some kind of alien subject, like gorilla training is for you and most everybody, is complete nonsense. Looking at the books we know Gallaway had, looking at his own stage performance, and his work at circuses, suggests that card sleight-of-hand was likely an interest and not some alien subject that somehow made its way into his library.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 3rd, 2017, 10:25 pm

lybrary wrote:But if you add it to the magic and gambling books Gallaway had in his library it supports the notion that he was interested in that subject.


Chris--are you trying to sneak that by again? There is no evidence that Gallaway owned more than one magic book--The Expert.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby observer » December 3rd, 2017, 10:45 pm

Brad Henderson wrote:<>but to your point, i have created at least two pieces which featured or were based on gorillas. one was a take off of an ernie kovacs bit <>
seems like chris is on a wild goose chase again



1) The Nairobi Trio?

2), excuse me, but that's "rrrild roose rase" ...

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 4th, 2017, 12:17 am

lybrary wrote:Edward Gallaway did not have a testament or last will.


How do you know this?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 4th, 2017, 12:54 am

lybrary wrote: Take MFA who was a cardshark, who clearly did not want to be associated with being one, because he used several aliases, but he traveled with literature on card sharping which was found in his steamer trunks. Not only did MFA have such books he traveled with them.

Do you have any evidence of this other than The Man who was Erdnase? Because it is not reliable.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Tom Sawyer » December 4th, 2017, 7:09 am

In case anyone wants to look up the relevant information in TMWWE, I suspect that the main pages are 14 and 384 (note 13). The information there is fragmentary and conflicting.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby jkeyes1000 » December 4th, 2017, 9:30 am

observer wrote:
Brad Henderson wrote:<>but to your point, i have created at least two pieces which featured or were based on gorillas. one was a take off of an ernie kovacs bit <>
seems like chris is on a wild goose chase again



1) The Nairobi Trio?

2), excuse me, but that's "rrrild roose rase" ...


I think Mr. Henderson is inadvertently supporting his opponent's argument (again). All he demonstrates is that his interest in gorillas is greater than that of most of humanity. I have no books about primates in my collection, and this is the only time in my life I have written about them.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » December 4th, 2017, 10:23 am

The problem is that not enough of us pay attention to gorillas. And that includes Brad. I shall prove it by asking you to watch this video. I think it will teach us all something about misdirection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 4th, 2017, 10:53 am

Leonard Hevia wrote:
lybrary wrote:But if you add it to the magic and gambling books Gallaway had in his library it supports the notion that he was interested in that subject.


Chris--are you trying to sneak that by again? There is no evidence that Gallaway owned more than one magic book--The Expert.

The statement - "Edward Gallaway had magic and gambling books." - is both factually and grammatically correct. I am not a native speaker so perhaps I am wrong, but all native speakers I have asked tell me that this is absolutely correct. Please stop your silly and incorrect comments.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 4th, 2017, 3:01 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Also implicit is the idea that a writer can't have only one publication, which is wrong. Anna Sewell wrote only one thing -- "Black Beauty." Closer to home, Gerritt M Evans wrote only "How Gamblers Win". Koschitz wrote only his "Manual of Useful Information." By your logic, each of these must have actually been written by someone else, who has other publications.

Again a complete distortion of what I wrote. What I wrote, and what others like David Alexander wrote, or what linguists like Dr. Olsson state, is that a writer of the quality of Erdnase requires a good amount of writing before he can reach such quality. This ability is not innate. It requires practice. That means a candidate needs to demonstrate that they did a good amount of writing before Expert was published. There has to be some evidence that speaks to that. For Gallaway it was lots of writing for newspapers starting with age 17, including his own newspaper by age 21, and I believe also the poker stories he wrote under the name of Eugene Edwards.

Now to Bill Mullin's examples of Anna Sewell, Gerritt Evans and Koschitz. About Anna Sewell we learn: "The daughter of a successful children’s book writer, she helped edit her mother’s manuscripts from an early age but was not published herself until she was 57." Or from Wikipedia: "Her mother expressed her religious faith most noticeably by authoring a series of evangelical children's books, which Sewell helped to edit,..." This nicely explains why she could write well. "Black Beauty" was her first published work, but definitely was not her first and only writing experience.

Koschitz: I recommend everybody to read "Koschitz's Manual of Useful Information" https://www.lybrary.com/koschitzs-manua ... 22002.html Nobody who will read it will claim that his writing is on par with the quality of Erdnase. Here is his entire preface:
Koschitz wrote:The writer, conscious of an inferior education and mindful of the many obstacles which ever impede the passage of one’s effort through the portals to public approval, is reluctant to express his views even concerning the more vital features of the present task, and does on only in order that his motives might not be misconstrued; hence while expecting indulgence for existing grammatical errors, he respectfully tenders good wishes even unto those with whose sentiments his own may disagree.

Koschitz writes like a first time author. The information he provides is interesting, his writing isn't high quality.

Evans: His book, "How Gamblers Win" https://www.lybrary.com/how-gamblers-wi ... p-896.html is definitely better written than the one from Koschitz. It has many colorful expressions and makes for good reading, but from a writing quality point of view, it is also not on par with Erdnase.

Before Erdnase wrote Expert he did a good amount of other writing. A candidate who shows no writing before or after 1902 is not a good candidate.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 4th, 2017, 5:54 pm

So you've changed your opinion from "A person can't write well unless he's written a lot before" to "A person can't write well unless he's written or edited a lot before."

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 4th, 2017, 6:12 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:So you've changed your opinion from "A person can't write well unless he's written a lot before" to "A person can't write well unless he's written or edited a lot before."

You are great in misinterpreting me. I haven't changed my opinion. Here a quote from what I wrote on that subject just the post above: "There has to be some evidence that speaks to that." 'Some evidence' that demonstrates that the candidate was able to write with high quality. Particularly if a candidate has no written samples to show for, which would directly demonstrate that he was a high quality writer, be it before or after 1902, one has to have other evidence that demonstrates this ability. Having a mother or father who was a published author and for whom the candidate did extensive editing work certainly qualifies as such evidence. It is not the ideal type of evidence, and it is not as strong as actual written samples, but it is much better than no writing and no knowledge of writing. You are again falling back into your black and white worldview. Evidence is much more nuanced. You ought to learn treating it that way.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 4th, 2017, 9:01 pm

lybrary wrote:
Leonard Hevia wrote:
lybrary wrote:But if you add it to the magic and gambling books Gallaway had in his library it supports the notion that he was interested in that subject.


Chris--are you trying to sneak that by again? There is no evidence that Gallaway owned more than one magic book--The Expert.

The statement - "Edward Gallaway had magic and gambling books." - is both factually and grammatically correct. I am not a native speaker so perhaps I am wrong, but all native speakers I have asked tell me that this is absolutely correct. Please stop your silly and incorrect comments.


How difficult is it for you to say that Gallaway had one magic book and several gambling books in his library. That is more accurate than your quote which implies that Gallaway had more than one magic book. A plurality of magic books that is not true.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 4th, 2017, 10:09 pm

The gambling aspect is more important than the magic aspect in my opinion. Based on the text of Expert, Erdnase associated more with gamblers than with magicians. Stating that Gallaway had magic and gambling books in his library is perfectly accurate and relevant, and is exactly what I want to express.
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