ERDNASE

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Bill Mullins
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » July 28th, 2016, 3:21 pm

Roger M. wrote:One may as well state that there's an Erdnase/Charlie Chaplin connection - which makes about as much sense.


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Roger M.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » July 28th, 2016, 3:51 pm

You're perennially one-step ahead of almost (if not) everybody (certainly me) in this thread Bill :)

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dr. Ofanser » August 21st, 2016, 7:40 am

Hello, my name is Bobby and hopefully I'm at the right post and the links work. I bought this copy of the Expert At The Card Table from amazon.It is from Coles publishing and has a 1980 copyright date. If you can view the link, the book doesn't have a Barcode or price.

Is this a rare copy, and is there any more information on it.

Cheers-B


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-PkH66qiPtxeFZRbDdpV3dETlk/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-PkH66qiPtxeklieVpWNlNJY1U/view?usp=drivesdk

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Joe Pecore
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Joe Pecore » August 21st, 2016, 8:55 am

Dr. Ofanser wrote:Hello, my name is Bobby and hopefully I'm at the right post and the links work. I bought this copy of the Expert At The Card Table from amazon.It is from Coles publishing and has a 1980 copyright date. If you can view the link, the book doesn't have a Barcode or price.

Is this a rare copy, and is there any more information on it.


Some info about that edition is here: http://www.everythingerdnase.com/gallery/canadian
Share your knowledge on the MagicPedia wiki.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » August 21st, 2016, 11:59 am

It is by no means common, but neither is really rare. Copies come up for sale from time to time (I've got two, and have turned down opportunities to buy others). Yours does appear to be in very nice shape, which is a plus.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » August 21st, 2016, 3:24 pm

Copies in "good" shape generally go for between $75.00 and $125.00 - depending on how long it's been since one has shown up for sale, and whether any collectors happen to be in the market for a copy at the time of sale.

Your copy (if indeed that's an actual photo of your book) is certainly one of the finer copies I've seen, and should maintain a value on the higher side of the prices noted above.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dr. Ofanser » August 21st, 2016, 9:43 pm

I appreciate the responses and info provided. I was familiar with the popular copies, but had never seen a copy like the one in subject. Im going to take a bit more careful with this copy!
Cheers-B

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dr. Ofanser » August 23rd, 2016, 10:53 am

I will sell my copy ... [deleted]

This is public on FB, and seems of interest to this community.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=153957241710530&id=100012887659088

Cheers-B
Last edited by Dustin Stinett on August 31st, 2016, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: If you wish to sell something on this site, please ues the Marketplace Forum and follow all the rules including full contact information. Thank you.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Dr. Ofanser » August 30th, 2016, 4:22 pm

Hello all,

Here is the beginning post on that Facebook page. I do not find Mr. Mortimers theory on Wikipedia. I do see, however, that there is a project in the works that deems intrigue.

Cheers-B



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=131612093945045&id=100012887659088

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » September 22nd, 2016, 1:57 pm


performer
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » September 22nd, 2016, 4:29 pm

Oh, I have that edition too. It is falling to bits. Just like me in fact. The quality of the publication leaves something to be desired with pages falling out etc;

Maybe I should sell mine too and forge some famous magician's autograph inside to make more money. Or even put my own name. I did think for a moment to sign it "Erdnase" but alas I think that might strain credibility.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jason England » September 26th, 2016, 7:16 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:license plate



You are a Nerdnase.

Jason

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » September 26th, 2016, 7:53 pm

Jason England wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:license plate


You are a Nerdnase.

Jason


It's a club, with secret handshakes and all. You should join.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby mam » October 11th, 2016, 4:58 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:license plate

Genius.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » October 11th, 2016, 5:41 pm

I'm not the first. That plate is already taken in California, Florida, and Nevada (Jason -- are you holding out on me? Wait, let me rephrase that . . . ).

But it is available in NY, Illinois and Texas.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Jason England » October 20th, 2016, 7:32 am

The Nevada Erdnase plate is owned by a wonderful magician and friend named Stuart Beck. Stuart works for Cirque at the Beatles "Love" show.

Jason

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » November 29th, 2016, 11:04 am

It would appear that Chris Wasshuber's ebook is now available.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » November 29th, 2016, 1:07 pm

From the blurb on Chris's web page:

1) "In other words these were candidates largely based on wild theories built on little evidence held together by flawed assumptions."
2) "A century old mystery has been solved. Erdnase has been found."

The first statement seems an attempt to diminish the work done to date by researchers and authors like David Alexander and Richard Hatch - and many others.
It's an insulting statement ultimately, and removes much of any desire I might have to read Chris's e-book.

The second statement is a repeat of something Chris wrote in his newsletter a few months ago, and which I commented on at the time. It remains a silly statement considering the total lack of consensus in support of Chris's candidate.

In the blurb for his e-book, Chris is marketing himself in his capacity as a Doctor and scientist.
Any scientist knows that when presenting a paradigm busting new theory, subjecting that theory to a successful peer review, and answering any and all challenges with specific, detailed and factual responses is mandatory.
Similarly, building consensus in support of ones theory among ones peers on the subject matter is a critical step in the process of advancing that theory.
In this case, beyond those he paid a fee to in order to assist in the research his candidate, Chris doesn't seem to have a any independent Erdnase researchers offering any real support of his candidate.

There is a certain hubris in penning the statement "Erdnase has been found", when indeed you're the only person actually writing such a comment, and you're writing that comment in the complete absence of any additional support or encouragement (even slightly) from other serious Erdnase researchers.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » November 29th, 2016, 5:02 pm

Oh good! Are we going to have an argument now?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » November 29th, 2016, 9:13 pm

There’s no crime in the strength of one’s convictions, but having read the blurb for Chris’ e-book, perhaps he could have conveyed his confidence and zeal with greater circumspection and tact.

Although I have not agreed with or been persuaded by a number of Chris’ conclusions and arguments, he deserves considerable credit and thanks for investing the time to share his thinking and factual discoveries in detail here. The downside to such generosity, of course, is that some who have read and/or participated in this thread may read his e-book with certain preconceptions. Hopefully, though, his work will be fairly reviewed in a few magic journals and read with an open mind by the rest of us (as Chris' e-book should now reflect the time he's had to critically reassess and polish his arguments and conclusions, in keeping with his academic credentials), after which the merits thereof can be vigorously discussed and debated by Erdnase historians and enthusiasts, as all prior theories have been.

Nobody gets rich being the author of a magic book or e-book, and I doubt that Chris will be the first exception to that rule – writing about magic is nearly always a labor of love. I intend to support Chris' work by purchasing his e-book, but at first blush do find the $45 charge for a PDF which amounts to less than 7,500 words (30 pages by Chris’ estimate) to be rather dear. Given the relatively low costs of on-demand printing nowadays, I’d have hoped that a hard copy of the e-book would be included in the price.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » November 29th, 2016, 10:27 pm

magicam wrote:I intend to support Chris' work by purchasing his e-book, but at first blush do find the $45 charge for a PDF which amounts to less than 7,500 words (30 pages by Chris’ estimate) to be rather dear. Given the relatively low costs of on-demand printing nowadays, I’d have hoped that a hard copy of the e-book would be included in the price.

There was an error in the page- and word-count. The ebook is 150+ letter-size pages. Olsson's analysis is 36 pages long. Remove front-matter and a few other inconsequential pages and you get about 100 pages from me. For the time being the work will only be released as ebook, but I am not completely ruling out a print edition at a much later time.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » November 30th, 2016, 1:31 pm

Several times in this thread I have expressed skepticism that the Delphos printer Gallaway ever had a circus career. Now that I've seen Chris's book, I am convinced. There is no reason to doubt that they were the same person.

My general belief that Gallaway wasn't Erdnase still stands, for reasons I've stated before. And the fact that Gallaway did in fact work in a circus for a while doesn't affect that conclusion at all -- the connection between being a circus barker and having card playing/cheating skills, or card magic skills, is unproven, and there's no reason to suppose that a circus barker would be any more likely than any average person to have those skills.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 3rd, 2016, 1:03 am

I'm surprised Chris's book has generated so little comment (perhaps it is priced outside the interest level of most here?)

The biography of Gallaway within it mentions that he was was a typesettter at a German newspaper in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, ca. 1887-1888, and Chris asks for help in identifying it.

The Library of Congress has a directory of U.S. Newspapers. It lists German papers from Ft. Wayne, but only one was in circulation at the right time: the Indiana Staatszeitung, which ran in both daily and weekly editions. I can't find any institutional collection that includes issues from the right time.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » December 3rd, 2016, 1:41 am

Bill Mullins wrote:I'm surprised Chris's book has generated so little comment .


I think folks posting to this thread hesitate to comment if they either don't own the book in question, and/or have no intention of purchasing the book in question.

The author made his research methodology, and road map to writing the book very clear in this thread. If folks feel that methodology and road map were flawed, they might also hesitate to add that book to their Erdnase library.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby lybrary » December 3rd, 2016, 11:52 am

Bill Mullins wrote:The biography of Gallaway within it mentions that he was was a typesettter at a German newspaper in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, ca. 1887-1888, and Chris asks for help in identifying it.

The Library of Congress has a directory of U.S. Newspapers. It lists German papers from Ft. Wayne, but only one was in circulation at the right time: the Indiana Staatszeitung, which ran in both daily and weekly editions. I can't find any institutional collection that includes issues from the right time.


There are several other possible candidates which I extracted from this article https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/in ... /8120/9953

- Die Ft. Wayne Freie Presse. This was a daily paper founded in 1888 which ceased publication in 1926.
- Der Weltbürger. This was a Catholic paper founded in 1883.
- Das Ft. Wayne Tageblatt. This was a daily Republican paper founded in February, 1876.
- Indiana Volksfreund. This was a weekly Republican paper established in 1871.
- Indiana Staatszeitung. Founded in 1857 and ceased publication in 1926.

I think the most likely from these is "Die Ft. Wayne Freie Presse" because it was founded in 1888 right at the time when we think Gallaway was working there. When a newspaper starts they have a great need for typesetters, more so than an established newspaper where these positions will for the most part be already filled.

And if that list is not long enough then here is an even longer from the book "Colorful journalism in Fort Wayne, Indiana" by Herbert Bredemeier. All of these were published in Fort Wayne:

- Die Abendpost
- Der Anzeiger
- Der Botschafter
- Der Fort Wayne Demokrat
- Der Deutsche Beobacher von Indiana
- Freie-Presse Staats-Zeitung
- Indiana Katholisches Wochenblatt
- Indiana Staats-Zeitung
- Wochentliche Indiana Staats-Zeitung
- Indiana Volksfreund
- Katholische Warte
- Der Weltbuerger
- Die Zeitung
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby magicam » December 4th, 2016, 8:48 pm

Roger M. wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:I'm surprised Chris's book has generated so little comment .
I think folks posting to this thread hesitate to comment if they either don't own the book in question, and/or have no intention of purchasing the book in question.

The author made his research methodology, and road map to writing the book very clear in this thread. If folks feel that methodology and road map were flawed, they might also hesitate to add that book to their Erdnase library.

Probably some validity to both of Roger's points, but as noted in my earlier post, hopefully folks will keep an open mind and see Chris' arguments in full before passing judgment.

As an aside, a decent copy of The Expert, ca. 1905 Drake edition in grey pictorial wraps, sold for approx. $185 (includes buyer's premium) at the recent Potter and Potter auction. See it here: http://auctions.bidsquare.com/view-auct ... tems%3D120. [I was the inadvertent winner of this lot -- was bidding on another lot, but mistakenly typed in the Erdnase lot # in my bid list), so if anyone is interested in securing this copy at the selling price plus shipping, let me know.]

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 11th, 2016, 12:24 pm

Chris's new book asserts:
"When it comes to sleight-of-hand precious little new material has been introduced over the last century."

Anyone want to critically examine that statement?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 11th, 2016, 1:31 pm

It's obviously not true.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » December 12th, 2016, 2:03 pm

I would put forth that having a deep understanding of sleight of hand prior to 1902, and sleight of hand in the 114 years since 1902 is critical to rendering any detailed examination of Erdnase - the man.

This statement about sleight of hand would seem to put the author at odds with accepted knowledge, and would tend to imply a lack of full understanding of the subject matter (although to be fair, he's not saying there was "no" new material, only "precious little" new material).
This may open the door to what any given individuals definition of "precious little" might be?

But as this e-book is a less extemporized, and more detailed version of what the author has already shared in this thread, it's not particularly surprising to find this statement contained within the final text.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby prodigy » December 13th, 2016, 6:23 pm

Bill Mullins wrote:Chris's new book asserts:
"When it comes to sleight-of-hand precious little new material has been introduced over the last century."

Anyone want to critically examine that statement?


I would disagree as well. The quality of playing cards have improved significantly over the last century, allowing for more possibilities.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Richard Kaufman » December 13th, 2016, 11:52 pm

I had the pleasure of handling one of Hofzinser's decks--a deck he actually used, and it was decently worn.

It spread smoothly and had obviously been treated with something. Fans and culls where no problem.

Yes, the cards are a little smaller in size.

Yes, it's a 32-card piquet pack.

Yes, it has no white borders, but the back design is so light that I believe cards could be reversed and remain unseen.

Other than those thoughts, I cannot imagine anything that is being done today that could not be done (and some things more easily) with Hofzinser's deck.

Food for thought.
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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 14th, 2016, 8:20 am

I've heard several people who have handled good-quality ca. 1902 decks say that they handle much like current cards.

Erdnase said, "For superior work the cards should be new, thin, flexible and of best quality. Cheap cards are clumsy and not highly finished."

So he certainly made distinctions between good and cheap cards.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Roger M. » December 26th, 2016, 2:49 am

Cris's book gets eviscerated in the latest Genii.

Mostly repeating points noted in this thread, but still interesting to read a third party review, sans any bias built up from posting here over time.

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby performer » December 26th, 2016, 5:41 am

Who wrote the evisceration?

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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Leonard Hevia » December 26th, 2016, 1:08 pm

performer wrote:Who wrote the evisceration?


I believe it was John Lovick?


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Re: ERDNASE

Postby Bill Mullins » December 27th, 2016, 11:24 am

Chris -- given that Gallaway was an amateur astronomer, have you or anyone else gone through issues of Popular Astronomy of the era looking for mentions of him?

You can do some online searching (unfortunately, not full text) of articles from that journal here:

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/#classic-form

Check "Astronomy" in "Databases to Query" and enter "PA" into the "Publication" field to limit returns to Popular Astronomy.

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The Hunt For Erdnase

Postby S. Tauzier » December 27th, 2016, 10:40 pm

Wow! What a terrible review. Now I know not to trust John Lovicks reviews. That was grossly over biased IMHO.
I read Chris Wasshubers posts in his news letter as he was researching and I was fascinated by his discoveries.
There was a very mean spirited tone to the review that had nothing to do with the book being judged by its merits.
John totally dismissed all the circumstantial evidence Chris brought to light.
Whatever.
One thing I know has misled the whole movement is the anagram sacred cow. That whole misguided mess needs to be led to pasture and slaughtered once and for all. Let go already- it doesnt make any sense!
When writers use a paeudonym- they never just simply scramble the letters of their real name. Dont they usually come up with something totally obscure that bears zero resemblance to their real name?
Case in point:
John Lovick= Handsome Jack
We are all assuming Erdnase wished to hide his true identity. So he's just going to write his name backwards and scramble a letter or two? Who does that? Who has done that? Please. Thats silly and amatuerish. Erdnase was no amatuer - this we know.
When Chris brought up the German nickname it made so much more sense to me.
The fact that our protagonist traveled with a circus and was known to do magic is profound to me. John thought that was nothing.
Like I said- it was a very mean spirited revue so I know something else is at hand.

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Re: The Hunt For Erdnase

Postby Bill Mullins » December 27th, 2016, 11:53 pm

S. Tauzier wrote:The fact that our protagonist . . . was known to do magic is profound to me.


Gallaway has not been shown to have performed magic.

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Re: The Hunt For Erdnase

Postby Brad Henderson » December 28th, 2016, 12:01 am

S. Tauzier wrote: so I know something else is at hand.



no. something else must must not be at hand.

believe it or not, sometimes reviewers hold strong opinions that have nothing to do with the person offering the item to be reviewed. By your logic ever glowing review we read should be dismissed as merely some syncophant or friend of the creator saying kind things because - well, of course some other thing must be at hand.

news flash: sometimes people attempt to sell [censored] work and some critics care enough to put their name on the line and alert their fellow magicians.

now I don't know anything about this work, so don't take that as me commenting on the quality of the item under review. But it's really silly to assume that all bad reviews MUST be the result of some personal agenda.

you're smarter than that.


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