Search found 252 matches

by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 10:31 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Mr. Keyes, Would you be so kind as to identify all the lies on the video which have you so worked up? And why is it galling for the performer to tell his audience which word she is thinking of? If he can't identify the word how could he be reading her mind? If he can't identify the word how can he ...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 10:23 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

keyes lies when he says he answers all the questions. he skips over all the inconvenient ones but please tell me how they know the page call is a lie? sure we all lie. how will they detect this one is a lie? the didn't notice it in the video. i've never seen someone call it out in any performance i...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 10:12 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

keyes lies when he says he answers all the questions. he skips over all the inconvenient ones but please tell me how they know the page call is a lie? sure we all lie. how will they detect this one is a lie? the didn't notice it in the video. i've never seen someone call it out in any performance i...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 10:02 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Below is a video that demonstrates the kind of lies i detest. Note that the performer (Osterlind) not only miscalls the page, but has the gall to TELL the volunteer which word she is thinking of! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYvmobtjsLw&sns=em Mr. Keyes, Would you be so kind as to identify a...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 9:12 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Math tricks are much more liable to be uncovered than a miscall done intelligently as Osterlind does. And when math tricks are uncovered, in my experience, audiences can feel like you're insulting their intelligence. While this effect does rely on what you would call a "math trick", it is...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 6:06 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

performer wrote:He is hoping for the same thing you are. To have the last word!


Good one, Mark! Actually I am dutifully responding to all these comments, especially those that are riddled with question marks, like Brad's.

I wouldn't want to leave any of you with the impression that I had been stultified.
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 3:39 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

As opposed to a lie trick, yes. really, how does the audience know i have lied? in your example you put the math in front of them. your trick is about math. they know you are doing math. the hoy as traditionally done is about mind reading. in yours the math is the critical observable method of crea...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 3:17 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

so it's a math trick. As opposed to a lie trick, yes. really, how does the audience know i have lied? in your example you put the math in front of them. your trick is about math. they know you are doing math. the hoy as traditionally done is about mind reading. in yours the math is the critical obs...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 12:31 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Math tricks are much more liable to be uncovered than a miscall done intelligently as Osterlind does. And when math tricks are uncovered, in my experience, audiences can feel like you're insulting their intelligence. While this effect does rely on what you would call a "math trick", it is...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 11:38 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Brad Henderson wrote:so it's a math trick.


As opposed to a lie trick, yes.
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 10:43 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

JKEYES1000: please post a video of one of your performances so we can compare it to Richard Osterlind's. I do not have a video of my own Impromptu Book Test, but I can tell you what I do differently. At s bookstore or a library, I ask a volunteer to choose any book (preferably one they think I have...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 9:44 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

My argument is not a moral one. I am not suggesting that certain forms of deception are more acceptable to the audience than another ... Please, we can all read, Mr. Keyes; you've continually framed your posts in moral terms, and continually claimed that certain forms of deception are more acceptab...
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 9:07 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Below is a video that demonstrates the kind of lies i detest. Note that the performer (Osterlind) not only miscalls the page, but has the gall to TELL the volunteer which word she is thinking of!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYvmobtjsLw&sns=em
by jkeyes1000
December 13th, 2017, 8:52 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

I am in a mischievous mood! And I am also a little unclear as to which lies Jkeyes deems acceptable and which he doesn't. Therefore I see a way of killing two birds with one stone, that is satisfying my desire for mischief and at the same time clarifying which lies are good ones and which are not s...
by jkeyes1000
December 12th, 2017, 10:08 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

I think he was talking about telling lies in magic rather than in one's personal life. I'm speaking to the point that this distinction between a verbal lie and a visual lie is a made up one. No one gets a pass for one and not the other, ever. Either they are both wrong or neither is. In the case of...
by jkeyes1000
December 12th, 2017, 6:52 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Don't you guys get tired of arguing the same points over and over again? i look forward to the day keyes actually makes a point. First point would be that it's going to be rather difficult to get the majority of readers on your side, when a few posts back you condescendingly suggested that "mo...
by jkeyes1000
December 12th, 2017, 3:01 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

"How does the audience know they have been 'faked out' unless the performer is incompetent and gets caught ?" Brad, I am going to answer your question in a slightly different way this time. I will concede that more often than not, audiences will GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT that you a...
by jkeyes1000
December 12th, 2017, 1:33 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

I don't know much about Hoy's Book Test but I gather it is something to do with miscalling the page number of a book. I don't really see much of a problem with that somehow. I do concede that I don't know that much about the trick to make a judgement on it though. All I can say after attempting to ...
by jkeyes1000
December 12th, 2017, 10:48 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

i did. but i didn't want to miss an opportunity to make the point. I suppose it would be awfully uncivil of me to say that your "point" about pleasing your audience with Hoy's Book Test is no more valid or conclusive than any of my "groundless" observations. Just want to make su...
by jkeyes1000
December 11th, 2017, 5:31 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

To me, it's about allaying suspicion by diverting the audience's attention from the simple truth, rather than denying it outright. Change the subject, make a joke, focus on something else. Verbal misdirection, as opposed to blatant lies. ... Suspicion is a biggie. Maybe that can be broken down into...
by jkeyes1000
December 11th, 2017, 10:53 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Maybe this "lie" dialog is about keeping the audience side of silent script (what they think is happening) internal rather than narrated? ...Slydini didn't advocate that people shohuld emulate him... Maybe after they learned to do exactly as shown in the lesson. To me, it's about allaying...
by jkeyes1000
December 10th, 2017, 11:58 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

It may be that the most important and effective "lies" of a magician are the ones he tells to himself. We must convince ourselves that the empty hand is holding the coin, come as close as possible to believing it with the utmost conviction, and convey that belief and conviction to the spe...
by jkeyes1000
December 10th, 2017, 8:19 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

keyes. you might want to watch the video again. the lie i refer to is simple and clear. it is exactly the lie you condemn. and simply finding one magician who doesn't lie in one trick proves nothing. magicians have lied for centuries and NO ONE CARES. it's not that they don't suspect the magician i...
by jkeyes1000
December 10th, 2017, 3:46 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

You are going round and round, asking for answers I have already given several times, as if denying their existence will eradicate them. I went back and watched Slydini doing The Helicopter on Dick Cavett, and the only other "lie" I could detect was his saying "I knew you was-a gonna ...
by jkeyes1000
December 10th, 2017, 12:37 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Mr. Henderson, I have already explained how to assure audiences that you are not lying. You simply ignored my answer because it did not serve your purpose. If you make a direct statement, let it be truthful, so that you can demonstrate your claim. If you need to imply something that is false, then e...
by jkeyes1000
December 10th, 2017, 11:05 am
Forum: General
Topic: ERDNASE
Replies: 5425
Views: 1904470

Re: ERDNASE

Sorry if I'm missing something, but is there any reason to believe that BOTH Foster and "Erdnase" published their works without submitting them to an editor? Even if a writer hired soneone to type his ms. (and to correct spelling and grammatical errors), this might account for the variatio...
by jkeyes1000
December 10th, 2017, 8:26 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

It is quite clear that you don't appreciate the analytical approach to this subject Brad. Your understanding of the psychology of the audience is limited to the assumption that they just want to have a good time and don't really mind being lied to if it provides them a momentary diversion. but you'...
by jkeyes1000
December 9th, 2017, 8:27 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

It is quite clear that you don't appreciate the analytical approach to this subject Brad. Your understanding of the psychology of the audience is limited to the assumption that they just want to have a good time and don't really mind being lied to if it provides them a momentary diversion. My belie...
by jkeyes1000
December 9th, 2017, 7:12 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

It is quite clear that you don't appreciate the analytical approach to this subject Brad. Your understanding of the psychology of the audience is limited to the assumption that they just want to have a good time and don't really mind being lied to if it provides them a momentary diversion. My belief...
by jkeyes1000
December 9th, 2017, 4:54 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

again, how can it hurt the repute of magic if they don't know you are lying. you can only be known to be lying if you get caught, and getting caught is what damages the repute - not the particular method employed at that time and i can prove it people have been catching magicians for centuries and ...
by jkeyes1000
December 9th, 2017, 3:46 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Just before the reveal, I say, “You shuffled the cards (Lie #1 not these cards), I shuffled the cards” (Lie #2 It was a false shuffle) As I interpret jkeyes position, I don't think these two statements would be considered to be lies. Lies would be, "You shuffled these cards" and "I l...
by jkeyes1000
December 9th, 2017, 3:21 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

we expect magicians to exploit sleights judiciously, and misdirection judicially, and gaffs judiciously - why is lying as a technique to be treated differently? and why do you assume lies mask weaknesses? can they not also be used to reinforce strengths or even be employed as part of the creation o...
by jkeyes1000
December 9th, 2017, 1:21 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

The main problem I see with your logic, Mr. Henderson, is that you expect magicians to lie 'judiciously'. To employ this "tool" only when they feel it is appropriate. Well, who decides when it is called for? Do we let performers lie grossly in order to MASK their incompetence, their lack o...
by jkeyes1000
December 9th, 2017, 9:01 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Ideally we ought to arrive at full comprehension by recognising the merits in each other's argument.. I tried - and in yours i found none. i say that not to be cruel, but honest. Your position is groundless and you haven't offered anything to place it upon any sort of viable foundation. I do always...
by jkeyes1000
December 8th, 2017, 9:30 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Mr. Henderson, if it makes you feel any better, I am not interested In "winning" debates. I think all contenders have something valid to say. Everyone benefits from the exchange. It shouldn't be a competition, as that tends to marginalise one side or the other. Ideally we ought to arrive a...
by jkeyes1000
December 8th, 2017, 7:17 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Yeah...when somebody considers themselves a Master Debater, there's a good chance they are using one too many syllables. I am by no means a "show off" I work only as hard as I need to. You can blame Brad for the redundancy and the duration of this discussion. I would have been content wit...
by jkeyes1000
December 8th, 2017, 1:06 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

... I would rather play to the smartest. Like I said before: if you can't fool the wise ones, they may educate the dullards. And that is yet another way that the audience can discover that you lie, regardless of how competent you are. More commonly heard advice on the topic in general: Now this ove...
by jkeyes1000
December 8th, 2017, 7:33 am
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

is it? jokes are funny. or is this more self pleasuring. i think we have a name for your act 'The Great Onan - he's honestly confusing.' No, of course the suckers wouldn't find it funny. The ones who merely thougjt it was less than impressive. I must admit I like the kind of humour that starts with...
by jkeyes1000
December 7th, 2017, 10:20 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Brad Henderson wrote:that's better.

but you have to have different messages in envelopes else you have a non effect


Exactly. That's the joke.
by jkeyes1000
December 7th, 2017, 7:53 pm
Forum: General
Topic: Ennobling Magic
Replies: 488
Views: 11820

Re: Ennobling Magic

Brad Henderson wrote:for whom?

and how would the envelopes containing different cards be magical if you decide who looks under their seat?


No, The magician asks the audience to elect someone.

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